GDT: Unofficially Official 19-20 Training Camp Thread

[RedWingzz]

Anyone getting the sense the Wings are looking real hard at Zadina for a wing spot?
Starting the Red&White game with Erne and Nielsen might have been an insight into some of Blashill's preliminary plans. Same with Hirose next to Filppula and Athanasiou (which is a line that's going to get outworked and outmuscled).

It makes some sense.
With the team signaling that Rasmussen is moving back to C, and likely starting in Grand Rapids, the number of legit contenders for the two potentially open winger jobs is falling.

All offseason, I've been thinking that Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Hirose and Zadina are the major contenders for two jobs on lines 2 and 3.
No Rasmussen?
Now you're down to 3. Most articles appear to be suggesting Svech might need to start at Grand Rapids.

That leaves Hirose with AA/Flip and Zadina with Nielsen.

Granted, if Svech goes hog wild and the other guys struggle, we could see something totally different.

I think they are giving Zadina a huge opportunity to make the team. He has to show up and play in the preseason though. If he doesn't show up and earn a spot, he'll be in GR.

Personally, I think he makes it.

 

[Mister Ed]

I think they are giving Zadina a huge opportunity to make the team. He has to show up and play in the preseason though. If he doesn't show up and earn a spot, he'll be in GR.

Personally, I think he makes it.

A line of Athanasiou - Filppula - Zadina would be fun to watch.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I just can't see Rasmussen transitioning from net front at ES to getting back to help out defensively/break up rushes. He doesn't have that kind of speed.

But maybe they're thinking more conservative play at ES combined with a role on the PP. That's the only way this makes sense: if they're easing him out of that Ken Holland-esque "you play net front and that's it" type pigeon hole. Not Holmstrom, but more of a Boyle or even a Hanzal.

He may be very strong at the netfront but it doesn't mean he'll do nothing but hang out there at ES.

The way people continually try to put a ceiling on almost every aspect of Rasmussen's game is so ridiculous.

 

[MBH]

I think the idea that Rasmussen does or doesnt fit the physical mold of a center is off base. That's simply not a thing.

Center does require extra mileage as a skater, but there have been plenty of centers without blazing speed, and I would venture to say that if anything, you play in top gear less as a center then as a winger. Ras is short on power atm, but his skating looks well above board for a center imo.

Watch/think how understated and economical Filppula's crossovers are in breakouts/transition. I think Rasmussens skating shares that quality. If he could replicate Filppula's 200 ft route efficiency, Rasmussen would be an unbelievable middle line center imo.

I would agree, athletically speaking, Rasmussen is not going to be a top end talent. But everyone always knew that.

Mats Sundin has always seemed like an appropriate comp for Rasmussens ceiling. Realistically a taller, shifted down Filppula.

But awareness, experience and play style is what differentiates c's and w's, not body type.

Mat's Sundin? That's more Auston Matthews that Rasmussen.
Rasmussen never had Sundin's skillset or skating.

Besides. Sundin thrived during the clutch and grab era. You can't be slow in today's era at center.

There aren't many below-average skaters doing well at center in today's game.
And the guys who are close to making that list? They didn't go 8-10-18 in their rookie year.

 

[newfy]

I think they want him to be what Paul Gaustad was for Nashville.

Rasmussen as a 19 year old on one of the worst teams in the league was on pace for 23 points and 11 goals. Gaustad never scored more than 12 goals for a season in his career, some seasons he was on pace for more but his career high over 12 seasons was 12 goals. Gaustad is absolutely not what they want him to be and its not what he looks like he'll be either. A 50-60 point Gaustad maybe but thats a completely different player than Gaustad was.

He may be very strong at the netfront but it doesn't mean he'll do nothing but hang out there at ES.

The way people continually try to put a ceiling on almost every aspect of Rasmussen's game is so ridiculous.

Yeah no kidding. There isnt some cookie cutter mold that a center has to be, the NHL usually goes F1/F2/F3 anyways. Nothing wrong with trying to develop Rasmussen at center. He could be a massive shutdown center on the third line that wins every face off and plays net front on the PP behind Larkin and Veleno and they would be set up for success.

Rasmussen looked like a 6'6 19 year old last year in the NHL. Expecting more or less than that with him seems like people didnt have realistic expectations

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

He may be very strong at the netfront but it doesn't mean he'll do nothing but hang out there at ES.

The way people continually try to put a ceiling on almost every aspect of Rasmussen's game is so ridiculous.

Respectfully, that's not the player we saw last season. You can see that in the video of his goals just a little earlier. Maybe he'll find more aspects to his game, but last year he only had the one.

 

[Ezekial]

Respectfully, that's not the player we saw last season. You can see that in the video of his goals just a little earlier. Maybe he'll find more aspects to his game, but last year he only had the one.

Lol, yea I'll go ahead and bet that 19 year old kid might find different aspects of his game working differently at 24 compared to now. In 5 years he's going to be a different physical specimen than now.

 

[Henkka]

I just can't see Rasmussen transitioning from net front at ES to getting back to help out defensively/break up rushes. He doesn't have that kind of speed.

No young player has ever developed their skating and speed.

Ugh!

 

[Pavels Dog]

Respectfully, that's not the player we saw last season. You can see that in the video of his goals just a little earlier. Maybe he'll find more aspects to his game, but last year he only had the one.

Maybe a 19 year old can find more aspects to his game? Yeah I’d say so. Literally any other prospect is given time, for some reason Ras is supposedly a finished product already. It’s so weird.

 

[MBH]

I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think Ras can develop his game enough to be a top 9 or top 6 winger who plays netfront on the PP.

But given Rasmussen's skillset and limitations, it seems like spending a year or 2 trying to turn him into a center is a more likely way to waste a year or two of development.

I'd rather develop the obvious skills. It ain't like we're busting at the seems with 6'6 netfront wingers.

 

[Gniwder]

A line of Athanasiou - Filppula - Zadina would be fun to watch.

AA and Zadina don't utilize their teammates well, so I don't see how that line would work at all. They both try to do too much with the puck.

 

[SCD]

AA and Zadina don't utilize their teammates well, so I don't see how that line would work at all. They both try to do too much with the puck.

At least Fils will be there as a third defenseman.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

No young player has ever developed their skating and speed.

Ugh!

You're betting on a 6'6 guy with skating issues to find the elite speed needed to break up a rush the other way when he's starting from behind the net or screening the goalie? You must be a man of great faith.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Maybe a 19 year old can find more aspects to his game? Yeah I’d say so. Literally any other prospect is given time, for some reason Ras is supposedly a finished product already. It’s so weird.

I think he's definitely going to find more aspects to his game, but I'm not convinced he's going to develop tools that he doesn't really possess now. I see him developing the things he's already pretty good at: defensive play (I thought he was a very defensively-minded center when I saw him in junior), net-front play (especially on the PP), the odd bit of physical contact, skill play in small doses. In essence, a Brian Boyle type player.

He's not much for the following, IMO: stickhandling, passing/vision, shooting from any kind of distance. I don't see him suddenly taking a great leap forward in those areas, but if it happens, I'll take it.

 

[newfy]

You're betting on a 6'6 guy with skating issues to find the elite speed needed to break up a rush the other way when he's starting from behind the net or screening the goalie? You must be a man of great faith.

For starters, we're going to start saying Rasmussen has skating issues now? Thats BS, for his size hes a really solid skater. He needs work on his balance a bit (so did Larkin at the same age) and could use some more acceleration but youre talking like his skating is a weakness.. It isnt. His combine results before the draft also bear that out.

Also, you need elite speed now to be a center in the NHL? The NHL doesnt just say hey wingers your center is net front crashing the net so you dont have to back check, he'll get there... No, wingers back check in todays NHL. John Tavares plays a lot in front of the net and in the dirty areas, plays center and is only a solid skater. He also doesnt have the size and reach of Rasmussen to compensate for that.

Theres way too many judgements being made on a kid who is only 19 and has already played a full NHL season

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

For starters, we're going to start saying Rasmussen has skating issues now? Thats BS, for his size hes a really solid skater. He needs work on his balance a bit (so did Larkin at the same age) and could use some more acceleration but youre talking like his skating is a weakness.. It isnt. His combine results before the draft also bear that out.

Also, you need elite speed now to be a center in the NHL? The NHL doesnt just say hey wingers your center is net front crashing the net so you dont have to back check, he'll get there... No, wingers back check in todays NHL. John Tavares plays a lot in front of the net and in the dirty areas, plays center and is only a solid skater. He also doesnt have the size and reach of Rasmussen to compensate for that.

Theres way too many judgements being made on a kid who is only 19 and has already played a full NHL season

His skating isn't a weakness, but his first step definitely is. There's no way he can go coast to coast to break up a play against average or better NHL skaters. If you can't catch up to that kind of play, you either: (1) can't play net front at ES or (2) you can't play center at ES. It sounds to me like they're going with (1), which is why he's going to be a defensively minded center now. This is a change because Ken Holland's take was (2).

 

[newfy]

His skating isn't a weakness, but his first step definitely is. There's no way he can go coast to coast to break up a play against average or better NHL skaters. If you can't catch up to that kind of play, you either: (1) can't play net front at ES or (2) you can't play center at ES. It sounds to me like they're going with (1), which is why he's going to be a defensively minded center now.

If his skating isnt a wekaness and its just his first step then going coast to coast wont be an issue. His top speed is fine like you said, I also think if his skating isnt a weakness already than in 3 years when hes really worked on it, it might be a strength. You also dont need to go from behind the net to being the first back checker breaking up a rush, no one is that fast in the NHL

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Lol, yea I'll go ahead and bet that 19 year old kid might find different aspects of his game working differently at 24 compared to now. In 5 years he's going to be a different physical specimen than now.

He's definitely going to be a physical specimen. That's the part of his game I see developing quite a lot. But I don't see him becoming a skill forward or a speedster out of nowhere.

 

[MBH]

I think they are giving Zadina a huge opportunity to make the team. He has to show up and play in the preseason though. If he doesn't show up and earn a spot, he'll be in GR.

Personally, I think he makes it.

He'll need to be better than he was in Traverse City.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

If his skating isnt a wekaness and its just his first step then going coast to coast wont be an issue. His top speed is fine like you said, I also think if his skating isnt a weakness already than in 3 years when hes really worked on it, it might be a strength. You also dont need to go from behind the net to being the first back checker breaking up a rush, no one is that fast in the NHL

Agree to disagree. He doesn't have a good first step and he doesn't skate with a lot of pace no matter what the situation. He's going to get better at that, but he's definitely not there yet. And at 6'6, it's an uphill type battle.

I don't think he can simultaneously play net front and be a defensive center. Which, again, is what Blashill has stated they want from Rasmussen. They want him to be a defensive center. If he can find the skating to do both, great. But I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

But we're getting away from the greater point, IMO: Rasmussen's projection has been downgraded once again. He started off and he was going to be a monster center with untapped high end skill (Getzlaf) who can't be stopped in front of the net. And then he was downgraded to a Holmstrom type winger who can score a ton of dirty goals on the PP and play a complementary role at ES. After all, it wasn't that great of a draft. And now he's been downgraded again to a defensive center who's going to play on the PP. But, first, he's going to play in the AHL...

Not the greatest look. Now, please, tell me how I'm wrong and he's still on track. I'd especially like to hear from the "He's still the next Getzlaf!" contingent.

 

[tfong]

Thinking back on it, and just last year highlights of Ras after thinking about it. I think he could really improve his stock if he becomes "lighter" on his feet. Just that first couple steps could make a huge difference in his overall mobility.

 

[lomekian]

I think he's definitely going to find more aspects to his game, but I'm not convinced he's going to develop tools that he doesn't really possess now. I see him developing the things he's already pretty good at: defensive play (I thought he was a very defensively-minded center when I saw him in junior), net-front play (especially on the PP), the odd bit of physical contact, skill play in small doses. In essence, a Brian Boyle type player.

He's not much for the following, IMO: stickhandling, passing/vision, shooting from any kind of distance. I don't see him suddenly taking a great leap forward in those areas, but if it happens, I'll take it.

Hopefully his well documented incredible drive will help him maximise any development there is to be had. He may be a Boyle type player, but unless he totally stagnates, he'll be better than Boyle.

The problem with this discussion is that a lot of his detractors keep making comparisons to players who are simply more physically developed versions of what Rasmussen is now - and a lot of his biggest fans are projecting significant growth in multiple facets.

I still see him at this point as I have done for a long time. Panning out to a sort of uber-holmstrom, who is bigger, will be even stronger in time, skates a fair bit better, can alternate between center and wing, wins face-offs, and is defensively very sound, who is capable of the odd surprising bit of playmaking, thought its not a forte. If he stays injury free, I see him as a good second line foil to a line also comprised of a 2 way playmaking type and someone who skates like the wind.

He could certainly be a very nice fit with saw Veleno and AA / Veleno & Zadina / Hirose and a younger and slightly better Helm type.

I think if he stays injury free, he'll probably peak as an average 50-60 point player with similar goal/assist split who is an absolute BEAST on the PP and solid enough elsewhere that you don't have to hide him. Sort of 2nd/3rd line interchangeable centre who is 1st line PP and can fill in on PK (REACH!) reasonably often.

The key thing for him is more strength on that frame - at present he lacks the strength to have much in the way of acceleration and the strength to drive the net or play net front nearly as well as his frame/skillset suggest.

I still like the pick because I think he'll be relatively unique and also because for years Detroit has been killed by LARGE centers who skate reasonably well and have good hands. I think in the fullness of time he'll also give opposing teams FITS in the playoffs

It has to be said, his hand-eye is still incredible

 

[lomekian]

But we're getting away from the greater point, IMO: Rasmussen's projection has been downgraded once again. He started off and he was going to be a monster center with untapped high end skill (Getzlaf) who can't be stopped in front of the net. And then he was downgraded to a Holmstrom type winger who can score a ton of dirty goals on the PP and play a complementary role at ES. After all, it wasn't that great of a draft. And now he's been downgraded again to a defensive center who's going to play on the PP. But, first, he's going to play in the AHL...

Not the greatest look. Now, please, tell me how I'm wrong and he's still on track. I'd especially like to hear from the "He's still the next Getzlaf!" contingent.

I have to say I don't recall seeing any posts comparing him favourably with Getzlaf. He's never been known as a playmaker at any level, bar being a better passer than sometimes given credit for

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

It has to be said, his hand-eye is still incredible

Maybe this is me exposing my total lack of actual hockey skill, but every guy I've known with good vertical type hand-eye like that was a good stickhandler when the puck was flat, too. I don't really understand why Rasmussen isn't better at it. He's by all accounts very good at tipping pucks. He can do that all day. He can protect the puck with his reach, sure, but when it comes to evading checkers' sticks/pokechecks or a little bit of deception, he's not great at it.