Underrated/Overrated

[Cassano]

For me there are two things that should be taken into consideration when you're talking about overrated/underrated players:

1. A player who is overrated isn't bad and a player who is underrated isn't necessarily World Class.
2. I think it's important to say who overrates/underrates the player. Is it the media? Is it fans across the board? Is it the players supporter base? Or is more likely good 'ole HFBoards?

Looking at this thread, I'll comment on a few guys mentioned:

• Toni Kroos being overrated: Who better to start with? Guy is definitely overrated on this forum and despite the overwhelming response (where the hell have you guys been the past how many years I've been banging this drum?) you still get one take that completely overstates his level. Kroos is World Class, make no mistake about it, but Kroos isn't a top 5 midfielder.
• Roy Keane being overrated/underrated: I don't really see him as being underrated. However he's most certainly not overrated. Love him or hate him he was huge for United for years
• Griezmann being overrated: Sorry wee baby, but he's underrated around here. People questioning a potential 100 million price tag right now is almost shocking. He's a player who can change a match on his own and there aren't a lot of other guys out there who can do it as much as he can. Despite Atleti's overall squad strength, he is the X factor that takes them to another level.
• Pogba being overrated: I don't see it. Is it the endorsements he gets? Is is the transfer fee? Is it the English media? Apart from that I'm not seeing it. I definitely don't see him being overrated on this forum.
• Dybala being overrated: Again, I'm not seeing it. Overrated by whom exactly? I don't think his being at Juve is doing him a lot of favors either.
• Insigne being underrated: Not on this forum.
• Pjanic being underrated: Definitely not on this forum.

You had me until you got here. I actually think Kroos has been a great fit at Madrid when it comes to the offensive end. His passing game is fantastic no matter where he plays, but specifically with Madrid he's had players like "BBC" to profit from his presence.



I won't name names, but it's nice to have a sensible Bayern supporter.



Congratulations! The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. In all seriousness though, while there may not have been a resounding chorus of Kroos supporters here, it was like having Paris Dennard here every time the guy came up. He was definitely overrated and as this thread is evidence he still is by at least two of you.



Hey ********, did I give you permission to post my photo? Otherwise, carry on with the good fight re: Pulisic sista!

I've been banging the Kroos is ovwrrover drum since 2013.

 

[Corto]

I've been banging the Kroos is ovwrrover drum since 2013.

One WC and 3 CLs later, and you're still proudly banging on it.

 

[StevenF1919]

Messi underrated? C'mon man. Even the most delusional of CR7 fans would put him no lower than #2. The rest of world football has him safely at the top.

If you want a legitimately underrated superstar , this is what it looks like :



And an underrated star:



These two could've played anywhere.

Add in Cassano as well. Him and Totti were magical together.

 

[Suiteness]

Cassano was probably the most naturally gifted italian footballer since Baggio but he ruined his career by being so mentally unhinged.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You can say Pulisic is over-hyped, but not over-rated. To me, over-rated means knowledgeable people about the game overrate the player, where as overhyped is because of places like ESPN that have no idea what they are talking about most of the time. There is a difference.

 

[Il Mediano]

Totti was definitely not underrated in Spain. He is considered a legend, at least among those whom I discuss football with

He was a Ballon D'or level talent playing for a team that rarely got to showcase his ability or won anything. He's definitely underrated by a large portion of football fans. The guy was every bit as good as anyone in the early 2000's and maybe for a time - was actually the best.

There's a great Graeme Souness video that's been conveniently removed by Sky on Youtube where he absolutely blasts the guy live on television , and Glenn Hoddle does as well. Something to the effect of "if he was truly world class , he would've moved to a bigger club" , completely ignoring (or unaware of) the fact he turned down Madrid and Barcelona multiple times. Perez desperately wanted him to be a Galatico.

When I say Totti is underrated, I mean I think he would've won at least one Ballon D'or had he moved to a Spanish giant. He was that good. I see lists made of the best players ever, and so often I'm left thinking a lot of those guys weren't better than Francesco. Figo, for example, was not better than Totti , imo. He just got way more exposure.

Same goes for De Rossi turning down Real Madrid , Barcelona , Sir Alex Ferguson multiple times, Mancini at City, Mourinho at Chelsea/Inter etc. He's one of the greatest of his generation but hardly gets mentioned. Unbelievable at his peak.

I don't blame people for not recognizing just how fantastic they both were. Roma hardly ever won anything, rarely advanced deep in the CL, Serie A declined significantly in popularity, and really, Roma doesn't compare to Juve/Milan/Inter. We're minnows compared to them historically and size of fan base. Hell, even Napoli has a larger fan base within Italy.

 

[S E P H]

Hey ********, did I give you permission to post my photo? Otherwise, carry on with the good fight re: Pulisic sista!

From your multiple ex-wives.

Don't get the point of this, if Arsenal gave 80 million plus Mustafi the deal probably gets done.

 

[Il Mediano]

Add in Cassano as well. Him and Totti were magical together.

Cassano might be underrated in terms of just pure talent , but as a footballer, I see him more as a "what if" player.

Hard to say a guy like Cassano is underrated; It'd be like calling Balotelli underrated.

 

[StevenF1919]

Cassano might be underrated in terms of just pure talent , but as a footballer, I see him more as a "what if" player.

Hard to say a guy like Cassano is underrated; It'd be like calling Balotelli underrated.

Cassano still had some great years (especially with Roma and Sampdoria) and people don't really understand how good he was. If he had stayed at Roma I think they would have won another 2 Scudetti at least.

He could have easily been the greatest Italian player of all time had he given a shit though.

 

[Suiteness]

He could have easily been the greatest Italian player of all time had he given a **** though.

Ok, slow down there bro

 

[les Habs]

Kroos, Keane, Pogba, Insigne, Pjanic : agreed.
Griez tends to be overrated when he's talked about in the top 5 players. Like WBS said, when he gets voted top 3 at the WC, there's a problem.
He's a great player and WC. But Ballon d'Or contender he is not.
Dybala is a great young player. One poster definitely overrates him, but that's just one.

Around here I don't see him talked about much in the top 5 if at all. Either way, depending on the time frame I think it could be warranted based on performance. Based on skill I would say "no", but at the end of the day if the performance isn't there what does the skill matter? He's outperformed "better" players the past couple of years. That said I wouldn't put him in the top 5 at this exact moment, but I also wouldn't put him too far off. And this isn't someone I'm some fan of either.

It is just one. I was ignoring that though.

Messi underrated? C'mon man. Even the most delusional of CR7 fans would put him no lower than #2. The rest of world football has him safely at the top.

If you want a legitimately underrated superstar , this is what it looks like :

You're new here so you haven't been blessed with some of the posts that many of us have. And putting him at #2 is bad enough.

As for Totti...

Totti was definitely not underrated in Spain. He is considered a legend, at least among those whom I discuss football with

Yeah, don't understand that one at all. Not in my experience.

De Rossi on the other hand, I know of diehard Roma supporters who wanted him gone when he was linked with a move to the Premiership a few years ago. He had some leaner years. Not to say I don't rate him. Still I don't buy him turning down Barça "multiple" times.

One WC and 3 CLs later, and you're still proudly banging on it.

The David May argument. While Kroos isn't David May, the "look at what he won" for a guy like Kroos when you're referencing Madrid is kind of ridiculous.

 

[StevenF1919]

Ok, slow down there bro

He's the most naturally talented player I've ever seen. He was overweight and spent his nights eating pastries and screwing prostitutes and he was still the best player on the pitch more often than not.

 

[Il Mediano]

De Rossi on the other hand, I know of diehard Roma supporters who wanted him gone when he was linked with a move to the Premiership a few years ago. He had some leaner years. Not to say I don't rate him. Still I don't buy him turning down Barça "multiple" times.

Yeah, we're not exactly renowned for our rationality. De Rossi mentioned he may have regretted not moving abroad whilst we had a disastrous manager he hated , and his form fell off. To Romanista , who to this day still hold Roman academy graduates to the standards of Totti , it was the last straw. He gets the Scottie Pippen treatment like crazy in general, but any Roma fan that actually wanted him gone is ridiculous.

I didn't say he turned down Barca multiple times. Read it again. But yes, he could've played for Barca. I don't say that lightly.

He turned down multiple offers from Sir Alex at United, and Mourinho at Chelsea, Inter, and Madrid (more than once). You can add Juve to that list as well if we're getting super particular about it.

 

[robertmac43]

You can say Pulisic is over-hyped, but not over-rated. To me, over-rated means knowledgeable people about the game overrate the player, where as overhyped is because of places like ESPN that have no idea what they are talking about most of the time. There is a difference.

With Pulisic it's a lot of over screened. American soccer talk and Pulisic effectively goes hand and hand within the media which is why he is so talked about. It does not mean ESPN does not know what they are talking about, they just got to talk about what is relevant.

 

[bleedblue1223]

With Pulisic it's a lot of over screened. American soccer talk and Pulisic effectively goes hand and hand within the media which is why he is so talked about. It does not mean ESPN does not know what they are talking about, they just got to talk about what is relevant.

Sure, but ESPN still doesn't know what they are talking about the vast majority of the time.

 

[Gecklund]

With Pulisic it's a lot of over screened. American soccer talk and Pulisic effectively goes hand and hand within the media which is why he is so talked about. It does not mean ESPN does not know what they are talking about, they just got to talk about what is relevant.

No ESPN doesn't know what they are talking about 90% of the time.

 

[robertmac43]

No ESPN doesn't know what they are talking about 90% of the time.

Rather harsh. They are definitely not as knowledgeable nor enjoyable in comparison to some of the bigger European outlets, but they get an unfair rating from us fans.

 

[les Habs]

Yeah, we're not exactly renowned for our rationality. De Rossi mentioned he may have regretted not moving abroad whilst we had a disastrous manager he hated , and his form fell off. To Romanista , who to this day still hold Roman academy graduates to the standards of Totti , it was the last straw. He gets the Scottie Pippen treatment like crazy in general, but any Roma fan that actually wanted him gone is ridiculous.

That was my take as well. In fact at the time I felt they needed the stability. Just because his form was off he wasn't playing badly.

As for academy graduates, any that you feel the club should have held on to in the past five years or so?

I didn't say he turned down Barca multiple times. Read it again. But yes, he could've played for Barca. I don't say that lightly.

He turned down multiple offers from Sir Alex at United, and Mourinho at Chelsea, Inter, and Madrid (more than once). You can add Juve to that list as well if we're getting super particular about it.

Correct, I misread it.

LOL. Well if he actually took Juventus up on an offer that would speak volumes about him.

 

[S E P H]

Sure, but ESPN still doesn't know what they are talking about the vast majority of the time.

I absolutely agree, but it doesn't matter. They make fake drama in the NBA all the ****in time and why I avoid the sport, but it works with casual fans. Donovan being labelled as a hero by ESPN on the same level of Curry/Tebow/Manning, and how every single player from America which is bought by a Euro superpower is somehow on the verge of world class. Trust me, I went through it with the likes of it concerning Zelalem and how he was going to be the next Modric.

ESPN is losing a lot of viewers, but they're still one of the more relevant aspects in sports sadly. I wish Sky Sports would decide to make an American sister studio equivalent to rival ESPN, overtime they would surely lose.

 

[Il Mediano]

As for academy graduates, any that you feel the club should have held on to in the past five years or so?

Most recently, Matteo Politano seems like a pretty big regret. We've been scouring the face of the earth looking for a left-footed RW after the Malcom debacle (thanks for that, btw ) , and Inter just bought an academy graduate of ours from Sassuolo for 25m who would probably fit the bill quite nicely. I think we only got 3m from him. Probably not a star, but a capable starter on a Champions League side - and he's Roman.

Alessio Romagnoli is the one that hurts the most in recent times, though. Left-footed CB , likely going to be the national team starter for the next decade at LCB. We got a good fee for him (at the time) , but I think if Monchi had've been in charge at the time , there's no way we would've moved him. You can't give up Roman gems like that - especially to Milan. Roma fans rationalize it by saying he's a Lazio fan (he is) , but still. Jamie Carragher was an Everton fan , it didn't force Liverpool to boot him out.

If we're going back a bit further, Aquilani is probably the most romanticized loss. Roma was in serious financial trouble and we sent him to Liverpool , which I think ruined a really promising talent. He was never the same after that , and ended up being a journey man.

Probably no one on the level of a Thiago , but still certainly regrettable decisions , imo.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I absolutely agree, but it doesn't matter. They make fake drama in the NBA all the ****in time and why I avoid the sport, but it works with casual fans. Donovan being labelled as a hero by ESPN on the same level of Curry/Tebow/Manning, and how every single player from America which is bought by a Euro superpower is somehow on the verge of world class. Trust me, I went through it with the likes of it concerning Zelalem and how he was going to be the next Modric.

ESPN is losing a lot of viewers, but they're still one of the more relevant aspects in sports sadly. I wish Sky Sports would decide to make an American sister studio equivalent to rival ESPN, overtime they would surely lose.

Yep. They just dominated the market share here for so long, that it's almost impossible for anyone else to get it back. ESPN caters to the casuals and they look to cause fake controversy because it gets people to watch. It's why they keep bring Olbermann back, it's why Stephen A Smith is probably their biggest personality.

 

[robertmac43]

Donovan being labelled as a hero by ESPN on the same level of Curry/Tebow/Manning,

What else are they supposed to do? To many American soccer fans I'm sure Donovan would be viewed as a hero. They had no one for the longest time to look to as a hero in the sport. At some level ESPN needs to create the hero label to try and fabricate better story lines. Cannot blame them for that, they are just trying to bring people to the TV screen for soccer.

 

[robertmac43]

On another note I agree that a sky sports sisterish channel would be amazing!!

 

[bleedblue1223]

What else are they supposed to do? To many American soccer fans I'm sure Donovan would be viewed as a hero. They had no one for the longest time to look to as a hero in the sport. At some level ESPN needs to create the hero label to try and fabricate better story lines. Cannot blame them for that, they are just trying to bring people to the TV screen for soccer.

I don't mind the Donovan part simply because he did bring the US game to another level for the country, so I always view him on that context. Dempsey hit it big a little after, and Pulisic much later, so both of them should be viewed in a different context IMO. There were others before Donovan like Reyna, but there was never a skillful type player making his mark. Donovan deserves the status because he was the first.

My biggest issue with ESPN and USA soccer coverage is that they all became the biggest geniuses once they failed, acting like they knew the exact problems, but those problems were never really discussed by them prior to not qualifying for the World Cup. It was like the post-election analysis of Clinton. If those people really knew the problems, they would've done more to highlight them prior to the failure.

 

[S E P H]

What else are they supposed to do? To many American soccer fans I'm sure Donovan would be viewed as a hero. They had no one for the longest time to look to as a hero in the sport. At some level ESPN needs to create the hero label to try and fabricate better story lines. Cannot blame them for that, they are just trying to bring people to the TV screen for soccer.

There's nothing we can do as fans, true, but again it's not all on ESPN. I mentioned a couple of things I find overrated on this site concerning British and American players. I have no problem with Americans cheering on players and making the most out of it such as Weah scoring, but I am going to still call it overrated.