Tyson Jost

[Foppa2118]

Good write-up on Jost by RSC.

While on the mend, Tyson Jost also found the time to fix his...

I like this bit from Bednar:


Also goes into how Jost and Compher, who both live with Kerfoot, helped one another pass the time as they both recovered from concussions. He also mentions Timmins briefly.

So glad Bednar noticed that Jost needed to move his feet more. I've been trying to bring more attention to this for a while.

It's not so much that his skating is terrible, it's that he's used to coasting more in slower leagues, and he can't get away with that in the NHL. Especially in Bednar's system. He ends up a step or two away from where he needs to be either on the forecheck, or support his linemate on the cycle, or to getting to loose pucks.

When he's moving his feet, he's jumping on puck carriers, and loose pucks much more quickly, and finding soft spots on the ice for passes before defenseman can cover him. He's also just carrying more speed through the neutral zone, and around the O zone.

When he's not, he's making the defenseman's job too easy. They know exactly where he'll be, and they can just box him out easily if they need to. Or they'll get a turnover along the boards or in the corner, because Jost isn't open for the puck carrier to get him the puck.

Tanguay had the same issue and he knew it. He was great when he was moving his feet. but when he stopped moving his feet, he'd go into a slump. Stastny had to learn this too. Jost will have to be cognizant of this throughout his career most likely.

 

[Pokecheque]

I know it sounds premature but I'm officially starting to sour on him a bit.

We know his obvious flaws--he's not big, and he's not fast. The acceleration and edgework has improved noticeably but without speed and real power he gets pinned to the boards way too often and way too easily. The only ways to counteract those big flaws are:

1. Possess elite-level hockey sense, if you can't outskate them you can outthink them (i.e., Ryan O'Reilly's advantage) and just basically know where to be before anyone else.
2. Have elite-level hands able to maneuver in tight areas and make plays.
3. Develop an elite-level shot that can get through traffic and beat the goalie from virtually anywhere.

This is not to say I think he should be an elite-level player, just saying I think in order to be the true answer as a 2nd line scorer those particular aspects of his game need to be elite or near-elite. I think he is, at best, above-average in those areas. The shot could evolve yet but I doubt it'll ever be a worldbeater.

I DO think he possesses great defensive acumen and will end up being a very good two-way complementary winger who can probably play a utility role and maybe put up some points. But I don't think he'll come close to meeting the expectations that come with being a 10th-overall pick.

I'll just call it now--I think the clock is ticking and Jost will be moved out in some sort of package deal either at the deadline or in the offseason. The role of 2C will need to be addressed in some other fashion. It's a shame, I think he works hard and is an easy guy to root for, but I personally have seen enough. I HOPE he proves me wrong, but I don't see it happening. I also don't blame Sakic for waiting one more season to see what he's got in TJ, but ultimately he ain't the answer. Again, hope I'm wrong...but I don't think I will be.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I know it sounds premature but I'm officially starting to sour on him a bit.

We know his obvious flaws--he's not big, and he's not fast. The acceleration and edgework has improved noticeably but without speed and real power he gets pinned to the boards way too often and way too easily. The only ways to counteract those big flaws are:

1. Possess elite-level hockey sense, if you can't outskate them you can outthink them (i.e., Ryan O'Reilly's advantage) and just basically know where to be before anyone else.
2. Have elite-level hands able to maneuver in tight areas and make plays.
3. Develop an elite-level shot that can get through traffic and beat the goalie from virtually anywhere.

This is not to say I think he should be an elite-level player, just saying I think in order to be the true answer as a 2nd line scorer those particular aspects of his game need to be elite or near-elite. I think he is, at best, above-average in those areas. The shot could evolve yet but I doubt it'll ever be a worldbeater.

I DO think he possesses great defensive acumen and will end up being a very good two-way complementary winger who can probably play a utility role and maybe put up some points. But I don't think he'll come close to meeting the expectations that come with being a 10th-overall pick.

I'll just call it now--I think the clock is ticking and Jost will be moved out in some sort of package deal either at the deadline or in the offseason. The role of 2C will need to be addressed in some other fashion. It's a shame, I think he works hard and is an easy guy to root for, but I personally have seen enough. I HOPE he proves me wrong, but I don't see it happening. I also don't blame Sakic for waiting one more season to see what he's got in TJ, but ultimately he ain't the answer. Again, hope I'm wrong...but I don't think I will be.

Ballz on the table, lol


For the record I agree, but you will be remembered for it now if be breaks out because of this post hehe.

 

[Pokecheque]

Ballz on the table, lol


For the record I agree, but you will be remembered for it now if be breaks out because of this post hehe.

Don't I know it...

 

[PAZ]

I know it sounds premature but I'm officially starting to sour on him a bit.

We know his obvious flaws--he's not big, and he's not fast. The acceleration and edgework has improved noticeably but without speed and real power he gets pinned to the boards way too often and way too easily. The only ways to counteract those big flaws are:

1. Possess elite-level hockey sense, if you can't outskate them you can outthink them (i.e., Ryan O'Reilly's advantage) and just basically know where to be before anyone else.
2. Have elite-level hands able to maneuver in tight areas and make plays.
3. Develop an elite-level shot that can get through traffic and beat the goalie from virtually anywhere.

This is not to say I think he should be an elite-level player, just saying I think in order to be the true answer as a 2nd line scorer those particular aspects of his game need to be elite or near-elite. I think he is, at best, above-average in those areas. The shot could evolve yet but I doubt it'll ever be a worldbeater.

I DO think he possesses great defensive acumen and will end up being a very good two-way complementary winger who can probably play a utility role and maybe put up some points. But I don't think he'll come close to meeting the expectations that come with being a 10th-overall pick.

I'll just call it now--I think the clock is ticking and Jost will be moved out in some sort of package deal either at the deadline or in the offseason. The role of 2C will need to be addressed in some other fashion. It's a shame, I think he works hard and is an easy guy to root for, but I personally have seen enough. I HOPE he proves me wrong, but I don't see it happening. I also don't blame Sakic for waiting one more season to see what he's got in TJ, but ultimately he ain't the answer. Again, hope I'm wrong...but I don't think I will be.

The realistic expectation of being the 10th overall pick should be a 2nd/3rd line complimentary player.

Obviously you hope and expect more, but historically the picks around 10th overall often don't reach their full potential.

 

[CobraAcesS]

The realistic expectation of being the 10th overall pick should be a 2nd/3rd line complimentary player.

Obviously you hope and expect more, but historically the picks around 10th overall often don't reach their full potential.

Well he does not really fit that well as a role player either if he does not break out offensively. I think that is what scares me most. Although his defensive game has become valuable for where we're at as a team. It was clear our bottom nine went into the negative column without him on nights they were not scoring.

 

[Foppberg]

After a rough start he has 8 in 12 games and has been looking better and better.... Way too soon to be writing him off.

He may never be an elite player but there's nothing wrong with a
40-50ish 2 way winger.

 

[Pokecheque]

The realistic expectation of being the 10th overall pick should be a 2nd/3rd line complimentary player.

Obviously you hope and expect more, but historically the picks around 10th overall often don't reach their full potential.

I get that they're far from a surefire thing, but if he doesn't have production that at least matches what he brings to the table defensively, then I think he's failed expectations. He needs to put up points. Period. I don't think he will ever be that guy though.

Just for shits and giggles, all the 10th overall picks from 2000-2018:
2000: CHI - Mikhail Yakubov (53 NHL games)
2001: NYR - Dan Blackburn (63 NHL games)
2002: CGY - Eric Nystrom (593 NHL games)
2003: MTL - Andrei Kostitsyn (398 NHL games)
2004: ATL - Boris Valabik (80 NHL games)
2005: VAN - Luc Bourdon (36 NHL games...Rest in Peace, mon ami. This is the Cursed Canucks draft spot BTW)
2006: FLA - Michal Frolik (748 NHL games and counting)
2007: FLA - Keaton Ellerby (212 NHL games)
2008: VAN - Cody Hodgson (328 NHL games...remember what I said earlier)
2009: EDM - Karl Magnus Svensson Pääjärvi (414 NHL games and counting)
2010: NYR - Dylan McIlrath (43 NHL games...Rangers don't do well here either)
2011: MIN - Jonas Brodin (430 NHL games and counting)
2012: TBL - Slater Koekkoek (85 NHL games)
2013: DAL - Valeri Nichushkin (188 NHL games and counting, but not for long)
2014: ANA - Nick Ritchie (200 NHL games and counting)
2015: COL - Some Finnish Scrub, never mind (192 NHL games riding on coattails)
2016: COL - Tyson Jost (94 NHL games and counting)
2017: FLA - Owen Tippett (7 NHL games)
2018: EDM - Evan Bouchard (7 NHL games)

Plenty of busts, one premature death, one legitimate star, and a few who fall in between (TBD on guys like Tippett and Bouchard).

 

[Pokecheque]

After a rough start he has 8 in 12 games and has been looking better and better.... Way too soon to be writing him off.

He may never be an elite player but there's nothing wrong with a
40-50ish 2 way winger.

I hope it's closer to 50ish (Carl Soderberg his first year, which I'd be perfectly okay with), but I have my doubts.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I get that they're far from a surefire thing, but if he doesn't have production that at least matches what he brings to the table defensively, then I think he's failed expectations. He needs to put up points. Period. I don't think he will ever be that guy though.

Just for ****s and giggles, all the 10th overall picks from 2000-2018:
2000: CHI - Mikhail Yakubov (53 NHL games)
2001: NYR - Dan Blackburn (63 NHL games)
2002: CGY - Eric Nystrom (593 NHL games)
2003: MTL - Andrei Kostitsyn (398 NHL games)
2004: ATL - Boris Valabik (80 NHL games)
2005: VAN - Luc Bourdon (36 NHL games...Rest in Peace, mon ami. This is the Cursed Canucks draft spot BTW)
2006: FLA - Michal Frolik (748 NHL games and counting)
2007: FLA - Keaton Ellerby (212 NHL games)
2008: VAN - Cody Hodgson (328 NHL games...remember what I said earlier)
2009: EDM - Karl Magnus Svensson Pääjärvi (414 NHL games and counting)
2010: NYR - Dylan McIlrath (43 NHL games...Rangers don't do well here either)
2011: MIN - Jonas Brodin (430 NHL games and counting)
2012: TBL - Slater Koekkoek (85 NHL games)
2013: DAL - Valeri Nichushkin (188 NHL games and counting, but not for long)
2014: ANA - Nick Ritchie (200 NHL games and counting)
2015: COL - Some Finnish Scrub, never mind (192 NHL games riding on coattails)
2016: COL - Tyson Jost (94 NHL games and counting)
2017: FLA - Owen Tippett (7 NHL games)
2018: EDM - Evan Bouchard (7 NHL games)

Plenty of busts, one premature death, one legitimate star, and a few who fall in between (TBD on guys like Tippett and Bouchard).

10th is one of those ones that does not have a great track record, but there are draft spots behind it that look way better historically from what I remember.

 

[Foppberg]

I hope it's closer to 50ish (Carl Soderberg his first year, which I'd be perfectly okay with), but I have my doubts.

I don't see why though. I know you outlined your rationale but the Jost of October 1st and today is night and day. He's been looking great out there.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

People stare at small sample sizes way too much.

 

[CobraAcesS]

People stare at small sample sizes way too much.

Well its even more difficult for those of us who were fans of other picks, and have seen those picks become valuable players.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't see why though. I know you outlined your rationale but the Jost of October 1st and today is night and day. He's been looking great out there.

Agreed, I'm not even taking into account his awful start--I'm looking at the guy who came back refreshed and educated who still has major flaws in his game. And yeah, again, this is barely the start of his 2nd pro season, but I'm simply going on record as saying I don't think his skill set is quite enough to offset his two glaring weaknesses. I hope I'm wrong. I still see a guy who gets pinned down too easily and doesn't get enough separation and still isn't quite able to utilize his shot.

FTR I'd like to see him used on the PK more, and guys like Nieto, Soderberg, and Bourque a lot less.

 

[Foppberg]

Agreed, I'm not even taking into account his awful start--I'm looking at the guy who came back refreshed and educated who still has major flaws in his game. And yeah, again, this is barely the start of his 2nd pro season, but I'm simply going on record as saying I don't think his skill set is quite enough to offset his two glaring weaknesses. I hope I'm wrong. I still see a guy who gets pinned down too easily and doesn't get enough separation and still isn't quite able to utilize his shot.

FTR I'd like to see him used on the PK more, and guys like Nieto, Soderberg, and Bourque a lot less.

Offset to what degree though? Won't be an NHL player? Will be a 4th liner? Unless you're a very elite player everybody has flaws in their game.

I don't really notice the pinned down part as much as I do the separation part, seems like he always has a guy right on top of him. But he does have great puck control for a guy his size.

I don't think anybody, outside of a few select posters, have huge expectations for him. Just a reliable 2nd line guy.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Agreed, I'm not even taking into account his awful start--I'm looking at the guy who came back refreshed and educated who still has major flaws in his game. And yeah, again, this is barely the start of his 2nd pro season, but I'm simply going on record as saying I don't think his skill set is quite enough to offset his two glaring weaknesses. I hope I'm wrong. I still see a guy who gets pinned down too easily and doesn't get enough separation and still isn't quite able to utilize his shot.

FTR I'd like to see him used on the PK more, and guys like Nieto, Soderberg, and Bourque a lot less.

I wonder why Jost isn't getting good at finding soft spots and getting open too. I do actually think his shot is very good. When he does get open he put the puck in the net. It's not like hes played with guys where he has to do all of the dirty work either.

 

[Pokecheque]

I wonder why Jost isn't getting good at finding soft spots and getting open too. I do actually think his shot is very good. When he does get open he put the puck in the net. It's not like hes played with guys where he has to do all of the dirty work either.

I'm hoping should he stay that a guy like Kaut could yet be the star (and yes, I know I'm expecting a lot out of a kid that's only still 19) who frees up Jost to be the player we hope he can be.

I guess we as a whole have given up on seeing Jost-Soderberg-Kerfoot or Jost-Kamenev-Kerfoot/Compher or some variation thereof.

 

[Mac2Rants]

I said thaht last year u can go back to teemu or holik and they're the best top 10 pick imo ever now rants could take it.

and to write jost off is completely unwarranted at this point guys coming along slow he just needs som more strength and a bit more acclerlation and hes a 50-60 pt guy. its howing he should have stayed in college or went to the AHL laast year but oh well..

 

[henchman21]

@Pokecheque is skating on thin ice! I know this routine!

 

[flyfysher]

I'm hoping should he stay that a guy like Kaut could yet be the star (and yes, I know I'm expecting a lot out of a kid that's only still 19) who frees up Jost to be the player we hope he can be.

I guess we as a whole have given up on seeing Jost-Soderberg-Kerfoot or Jost-Kamenev-Kerfoot/Compher or some variation thereof.

I haven't given up hope for trying out those line combinations.

 

[flyfysher]

@Pokecheque is skating on thin ice! I know this routine!

String Poke up!

 

[avsfan09]

I'm hoping should he stay that a guy like Kaut could yet be the star (and yes, I know I'm expecting a lot out of a kid that's only still 19) who frees up Jost to be the player we hope he can be.

I guess we as a whole have given up on seeing Jost-Soderberg-Kerfoot or Jost-Kamenev-Kerfoot/Compher or some variation thereof.

Your expectations grow exponentially from 19-20? Jost is only 20 ffs. He scored around a 30 pt pace as a rookie. This year hes on pace for 43 and heating up. Hell be a slower grower due to not possessing elite speed but he has top six skill and intelligence. And he Is actually progressing nicely atm imo. I know it's frustrating that hes not holding down the 2nd c spot but it would be silly to give him up unless the other team values him highly and we are upgrading.

 

[avsfan09]

@Pokecheque is skating on thin ice! I know this routine!

Atleast in your posts you dont write him off as a top sixer entirely

 

[CobraAcesS]

String Poke up!

Me and @henchman24 over here like..

 

[henchman21]

Atleast in your posts you dont write him off as a top sixer entirely

Contrary to what is thought, I quite like Jost overall as a player and think he is going to be a good player for a long time. I just don't see him a #2C sort and that was blasphemy for a while.