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Value of: Tyler Toffoli

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Frolov 6'3

Frolov 6'3

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Osprey said:
What a weird way to interpret what he said. He wasn't de-valuing the player. He was de-valuing the hat trick's boost to his trade value. When others are suggesting that he's worth more now because he scored a hat trick, it's perfectly reasonable, IMO, for someone to argue back that it shouldn't boost his value much because the hat trick wasn't that impressive.
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He scored 3 goals, period.

Yes I have seen better hattricks too. In the end it was his 16th, 17th and 18th goal of the season. Before x-mas, TT was labeled as a 13 goal scorer by quite a few.

No idea why you feel the need to defend that comment, even if he wasnt “de-valuing” the player. Heck, I thought I read from you these goals couldnt be scored on a better moment, one week before the deadline.

Unbelievable how you always act.
 
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crassbonanza

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Osprey said:
What a weird way to interpret what he said. He wasn't de-valuing the player. He was de-valuing the hat trick's boost to his trade value. When others are suggesting that he's worth more now because he scored a hat trick, it's perfectly reasonable, IMO, for someone to argue back that it shouldn't boost his value much because the hat trick wasn't that impressive.
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Scoring a hat trick is impressive, you saying it wasn't that impressive is pure nonsense. Now whether that increases his trade value is another story, but trying to diminish a hat trick because a shot was screened or because he cleaned up a rebound is idiotic.

Osprey said:
No. I was under the impression that they had two 2nds this year, with one being later in the round, but I was mistaken. It was a 3rd, not a 2nd, in this year's draft that they got from Toronto for Campbell. I probably mixed that up because the 3rd for next year that was also received could turn into a 2nd.
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Even if it was the Columbus 2nd+ Toffoli for a late 1st, that is horrible value. They would be much better off just acquiring a 2nd round pick.
 
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Osprey

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Frolov 6'3 said:
No idea why you feel the need to defend that comment, even if he wasnt “de-valuing” the player. Heck, I thought I read from you these goals couldnt be scored on a better moment, one week before the deadline.

Unbelievable how you always act.
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You have "no idea" why I would defend a comment that was misinterpreted? Why, because you perceived it as a slight? I simply understood what he was arguing without being offended by it. I don't see why that's "unbelievable."

crassbonanza said:
Scoring a hat trick is impressive, you saying it wasn't that impressive is pure nonsense. Now whether that increases his trade value is another story, but trying to diminish a hat trick because a shot was screened or because he cleaned up a rebound is idiotic.
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Whether the hat trick increases his trade value is the whole story here, but a few of you are seemingly in a rush to be offended and are reading things out of context. When I said that the hat trick "wasn't that impressive," I was referencing the thought about raising his trade value that I started that same sentence with. In other words, I was saying that the hat trick wasn't that impressive that it raises his trade value to a 1st. I even italicized "that" to try to make it clearer.

Ziggy Stardust said:
Typical Osprey, sitting on his high horse and being judgmental of everything involving the Kings.
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Typical Ziggy Stardust... misjudging and over-reacting to what others say about his team and its players because he wants to be offended and have an excuse to lash out at strangers. FYI, I'm not the one who routinely rides around here on a high horse, judging what people say about his team.
 
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Osprey

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deaderhead28 said:
Did he really jump ship from the Kings onto the Ducks bandwagon?:laugh:
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I'm the one that you should be asking, not him. Like a lot of fans across the league, I did temporarily hop on the Ducks bandwagon in the 2003 and 2007 playoffs. I needed a team to cheer for and the Kings didn't even make the postseason. What was I suppose to do, be a bitter, hateful homer and root against a really likable team just because they were a rival? I chose to support the other SoCal team (though it's not like I supported them financially by going to a game or buying merchandise or anything). Some Kings fans couldn't understand that (and I don't blame them), but a couple, like Ziggy here, have been spreading this false narrative ever since that I became a Ducks fan (which is about as true as me becoming a Blues fan last playoffs or a Knights fan the playoffs before). It's been 13 years and they just refuse to let it go :laugh:.
 
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tomd

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Both the speed of the game and the physical intensity (i.e. puck battles) pick up exponentially in the playoffs. These are two areas where Toffoli is average or even below average in the regular season. In the playoffs, he is likely to get very exposed by his average to poor skating and lack of physical play. Ultimately, any team that acquires him will have to trust that his flaws are offset by his ability to score. I personally believe that Toffoli would be too easily neutralized or even be a liability in a tough playoff series.
 

Ghetty Green

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tomd said:
Both the speed of the game and the physical intensity (i.e. puck battles) pick up exponentially in the playoffs. These are two areas where Toffoli is average or even below average in the regular season. In the playoffs, he is likely to get very exposed by his average to poor skating and lack of physical play. Ultimately, any team that acquires him will have to trust that his flaws are offset by his ability to score. I personally believe that Toffoli would be too easily neutralized or even be a liability in a tough playoff series.
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Toffoli is really good along the board . Are you sure youre talking about the right guy ?
 
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Ghetty Green

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tomd said:
We can just agree to disagree about that...I watch almost every Kings game and Toffoli almost never comes out of the corner with the puck.
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I watch every game too. You might have a point about his speed but you reached by saying he will struggle with the physicality of the playoff . He has played in some of the most intense series of the decade and played amazingly
 

tomd

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Ghetty Green said:
I watch every game too. You might have a point about his speed but you reached by saying he will struggle with the physicality of the playoff . He has played in some of the most intense series of the decade and played amazingly
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Those playoff games were six and seven years ago! He is not the same player. If he was, don't you think Blake would be at least making an effort to keep him?
 

Ghetty Green

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tomd said:
Those playoff games were six and seven years ago! He is not the same player. If he was, don't you think Blake would be at least making an effort to keep him?
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Apparently there is an effort being made by the coach to keep him
 
Raccoon Jesus

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tomd said:
Those playoff games were six and seven years ago! He is not the same player. If he was, don't you think Blake would be at least making an effort to keep him?
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He's now 27 instead of 22, and you think he's worse physically capable to deal with playoff checking? He was a stud complementary scorer on a cup team who had no difficulty with "playoff speed and checking," give me a break. Assuming a contender trades for him, he's perfectly equipped for complementary scoring work. You can 'personally believe' whatever you want, I suppose, but history shows your personal beliefs are wrong. He's an average-at-best skater, and he's not a play-driver himself--the biggest difference between 22-year-old toffoli and 27-year-old toffoli is the team around him. But he'll get in there and get his nose dirty and either snipe or bang pucks home if you can surround him with the right squad.

And the 2nd part is a total non-sequitur but you know that. He doesn't really fit the age of LA's rebuild and is one of their best trade assets. It's less to do with "he's not good" and everything to do with he can get us a good return for the future as a prime Tyler Toffoli isn't saving this team.
 
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tomd

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Raccoon Jesus said:
He's now 27 instead of 22, and you think he's worse physically capable to deal with playoff checking? He was a stud complementary scorer on a cup team who had no difficulty with "playoff speed and checking," give me a break. Assuming a contender trades for him, he's perfectly equipped for complementary scoring work. You can 'personally believe' whatever you want, I suppose, but history shows your personal beliefs are wrong. He's an average-at-best skater, and he's not a play-driver himself--the biggest difference between 22-year-old toffoli and 27-year-old toffoli is the team around him. But he'll get in there and get his nose dirty and either snipe or bang pucks home if you can surround him with the right squad.

And the 2nd part is a total non-sequitur but you know that. He doesn't really fit the age of LA's rebuild and is one of their best trade assets. It's less to do with "he's not good" and everything to do with he can get us a good return for the future as a prime Tyler Toffoli isn't saving this team.
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Snarky tonight, aren't we? And yes, the 27 year-old version of Toffoli is demonstrably worse than the 22 year-old version. I don't even know how you can argue otherwise. And I don't care where a team is in their rebuild, if you have a valuable 27 year-old player you try to keep him...especially when that player is going to be replaced by the likes of Matt Luff. And that goes double if the best they can get for Toffoli is a late 2nd and a B prospect.
 
kilowatt

kilowatt

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tomd said:
Snarky tonight, aren't we? And yes, the 27 year-old version of Toffoli is demonstrably worse than the 22 year-old version. I don't even know how you can argue otherwise. And I don't care where a team is in their rebuild, if you have a valuable 27 year-old player you try to keep him...especially when that player is going to be replaced by the likes of Matt Luff. And that goes double if the best they can get for Toffoli is a late 2nd and a B prospect.
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How do you know he wants to stay? Should the Kings risk losing Toffoli for nothing? What if he doesn't want to spend the next three years on a rebuilding team? What will a 30-year-old Toffoli be worth?

It's crazy that "the 27 year-old version of Toffoli is demonstrably worse than the 22 year-old version" given that the 27 year-old version has six more goals and five more points in four fewer games so far on a much, much worse team. This Kings team isn't even on pace to score 200 goals, fewer than last season's 202, good for second-worst in the league both years. Toffoli's on pace for 25 goals on a trash team with underachieving linemates. I wonder what he could do in an offensive-minded system with a pass-first center? Is it any surprise that playing with Kopitar instead of Carter has improved his goal totals? Until the new year, he was trying to carry guys like Michael Amadio and Matt Luff.
 
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RationalExpectations

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ookhaab said:
Most likely less than what Coleman returned?
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Less (because somehow TB paid quite a lot maybe because of the spare 1st they had) but not much less, I guess in this market it should be 1st+, Coleman has the same age and has never scored 40 points while Toffoli has done it several times and seems more proven
 

RationalExpectations

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AndreiThreeK said:
Less than half of what Coleman got, given that Coleman was signed for 1 extra year and is paid less than half for similar production. 2nd + B prospect sounds right.
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Agreed on the first part, disagreed on the second part. LA can retain and Toffoli is more proven than Coleman. Nobody would have predicted a 1st + Foote for Coleman yesterday.
 
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