Tyler Myers next contract?

[boanst]

Could be!

I prefer to rely on my experience with hockey, and what I see. I know that's shunned nowadays, but I guess I'm just some crotchety old ****

I don't think I've been too unrealistic about what I've said about Myers - I recognize his warts. I also saw a guy who really stepped up in the playoffs (when Trouba was kind of floundering). I saw someone who had periods of really solid play mixed in with stretches of what I would consider low confidence.

I like Tyler Myers. I don't expect every player to be top 10 in the NHL at their position *shrugs*

I see Myers like I see Justin Schultz, a mediocre dman in his own end with good offensive instincts that can be pretty useful when sheltered. Obviously they are stylistically quite different, but they would both slot into the same role.

What is that worth? Putting aside the Jets salary cap situation, I dont think I would have much issue at a $4 mill per year deal. I scratch my head at the thought of him only being worth 2.5 a year, that's just nonsense.

But part of me also wonders if we would lose much at all if Morrissey was slotted in on PP2 and we let Myers go and replaced him with a more reliable dman that wouldn't cost much. Just dont ask me who.

 

[Jet]

I see Myers like I see Justin Schultz, a mediocre dman in his own end with good offensive instincts that can be pretty useful when sheltered. Obviously they are stylistically quite different, but they would both slot into the same role.

What is that worth? Putting aside the Jets salary cap situation, I dont think I would have much issue at a $4 mill per year deal. I scratch my head at the thought of him only being worth 2.5 a year, that's just nonsense.

But part of me also wonders if we would lose much at all if Morrissey was slotted in on PP2 and we let Myers go and replaced him with a more reliable dman that wouldn't cost much. Just dont ask me who.

I don't have an argument with any of that.

I like Condor but I do not see him as an integral piece to the team. I'm not against a plan to replace him with a cheaper option that is better defensively - as I do think Morrissey is ready to take on PP responsibility.

I just don't think he's as bad as people with charts and graphs claim.

 

[MardyBum]

Thanks, I was waiting for your approval on that

"I think Myers looks great. Stats are dumb".

Not exactly a basis for debate

 

[MardyBum]

Imagine the surgery that would be required if trouba was singed for 8 million right now. And also how much would be required to pay morrissey who is arguably better then trouba in every way. At the end of the day he wants what elite dmen get and he isn't one and won't get that here. Best just to part ways. Chevy would pay the 8 mill and perform surgery if he thought he was getting his money worth.

If Trouba were signed to 8 mil, we trade Myers and sign Morrissey to a bridge. We're under for this year, easily. We also get assets for selling high on Myers.

Hell, if we traded Myers we could still sign Morrissey @ 6 mil long term, and still have space. Trouba's making 5.5. 8 mil would only be 2.5 mil more in space. I'd rather lose 2.5 mil in space than lose Trouba.

Perreault would be put on the block, and eventually traded. Kulikov would likely have to go as well, but that's not a big loss, and it wouldn't have to happen this year.

Morrissey's arguably better than Trouba in every way? .

 

[garret9]

I never said I'd be happy with 6+ million.

I don't think Myers is there. I also don't think he's as bad as the haters say.

You can stuff your stats in a sack. I see stats tell whatever story people want to tell.

Why are people haters just because they have a stance hat someone thas a low or negative value based on reasoning. If it was not substantiated on something like results and what they see but on something like appearance or a personal meeting, sure... but it’s not.

Also, stats only tell you whatever you want I’d you are disingenuous in how you use them, and typically those can be torn down quite easily but the intelligent consensus.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

among NHL defensemen, at 5v5 and 250+ minutes:
21) Trouba, 1.22 P/60
155) Myers, 0.64 P/60

Not doubting this to be true, but at the present nhl.com won't list 5x5 stats as it normally does. Perhaps some updates are going on.

With that said, sorting right shooting defencemen by even strength points reveals that the Jets had 3 defensemen all place in the top 32 in the NHL. Last I checked there were 31 teams.

Granted Myers played a full season & many on this list didn't so their P/60 will certainly be higher,

1st pairing=1-62, 2nd pairing =63-124 & 3rd pairing 125-186.

So if Myers is 155th, he's scoring at a rate playing on the 3rd pairing should, albeit in the middle as opposed to near the top.

 

[Maukkis]

Not doubting this to be true, but at the present nhl.com won't list 5x5 stats as it normally does. Perhaps some updates are going on.

With that said, sorting right shooting defencemen by even strength points reveals that the Jets had 3 defensemen all place in the top 32 in the NHL. Last I checked there were 31 teams.
View attachment 134291
Granted Myers played a full season & many on this list didn't so their P/60 will certainly be higher,

1st pairing=1-62, 2nd pairing =63-124 & 3rd pairing 125-186.

So if Myers is 155th, he's scoring at a rate playing on the 3rd pairing should, albeit in the middle as opposed to near the top.

Nhl.com has been in shambles for a long time. Some useful stats are listed there, but they are few and far between.

I don't like the way you're sorting players (as it suggests that there are exactly 62 top pairing level D-men in the NHL etc.) but for a so-called 'offensively good defenseman', 155th best in 5v5 production is hardly acceptable. That is magnified when the poor defensive results and sheltered usage is accounted for.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Nhl.com has been in shambles for a long time. Some useful stats are listed there, but they are few and far between.

I don't like the way you're sorting players (as it suggests that there are exactly 62 top pairing level D-men in the NHL etc.) but for a so-called 'offensively good defenseman', 155th best in 5v5 production is hardly acceptable. That is magnified when the poor defensive results and sheltered usage is accounted for.

I realize that Myers has his flaws. I'm basically in agreement with everyone that a potential contract needs to keep those flaws in mind and pay him accordingly.

I'm hoping that will be the case as we're not going to find better value on the open market next year. As I pointed out in another post it's very slim picking in the 2019 UFA market for his position. Myers on all accounts is very happy with this organization & hopefully a fair deal can be worked out.

 

[garret9]

Maybe I'm undervaluing Myers, but I think the Jets could do a lot better with defensemen than they have:

The only defenders we can be confident are above replacement level are Morrissey, Byfuglien, Trouba, and Enstrom...

Everyone else (according to these models) is, by definition, easily replaceable by $1mil defenders.

 

[Maukkis]

I realize that Myers has his flaws. I'm basically in agreement with everyone that a potential contract needs to keep those flaws in mind and pay him accordingly.

I'm hoping that will be the case as we're not going to find better value on the open market next year. As I pointed out in another post it's very slim picking in the 2019 UFA market for his position. Myers on all accounts is very happy with this organization & hopefully a fair deal can be worked out.

How likely is it that a
- veteran
- UFA
- RHD
- who has scored a lot of points
- and has size for days
- and who is liked by the organisation
...gets a fair contract?

That is as scary as it gets.

 

[10Ducky10]

I'd be ok with 11m over 3 years for Myers if he played 3rd pairing with lots of PK time and filling in on the PP after Buff and Morrissey.

 

[ps241]

I don't have an argument with any of that.

I like Condor but I do not see him as an integral piece to the team. I'm not against a plan to replace him with a cheaper option that is better defensively - as I do think Morrissey is ready to take on PP responsibility.

I just don't think he's as bad as people with charts and graphs claim.

It’s not just the charts and graphs crowd that can be intolerant. I have been an Enstrom fan since the team arrived and liked him until the day he left even through I was fine with him going. The amount of heat I have taken constantly on that position is insane in Winnipeg. “Small, soft (lof***ingl), small, easy to push around, small, crappy defender (you can’t make this shit up). Toby’s offense dropped off drastically by the end and like Myers the injuries caught up with him. Hope he enjoys his time back in Sweden with his wife. Thank god his haters have little Nic to kick around this season.

 

[ffh]

Myers at under 4 million aav and 3rd pairing with trouba out of the picture and long gone.Can't make this stuff up.

 

[scelaton]

I see Myers like I see Justin Schultz, a mediocre dman in his own end with good offensive instincts that can be pretty useful when sheltered. Obviously they are stylistically quite different, but they would both slot into the same role.

What is that worth? Putting aside the Jets salary cap situation, I dont think I would have much issue at a $4 mill per year deal. I scratch my head at the thought of him only being worth 2.5 a year, that's just nonsense.

But part of me also wonders if we would lose much at all if Morrissey was slotted in on PP2 and we let Myers go and replaced him with a more reliable dman that wouldn't cost much. Just dont ask me who.

Schultz got ~ $5.5 x 3 years and that was in 2017. That would be closer to $6M in 2019 NHL dollars.
RHDs with offensive skill and a pedigree are worth a lot of money as UFAs. If we lose Trouba in the next year and Myers looks for max dollars, we could be in boatload of trouble on the right side.

 

[Upperdeckjet]

It’s not just the charts and graphs crowd that can be intolerant. I have been an Enstrom fan since the team arrived and liked him until the day he left even through I was fine with him going. The amount of heat I have taken constantly on that position is insane in Winnipeg. “Small, soft (lo****ingl), small, easy to push around, small, crappy defender (you can’t make this **** up). Toby’s offense dropped off drastically by the end and like Myers the injuries caught up with him. Hope he enjoys his time back in Sweden with his wife. Thank god his haters have little Nic to kick around this season.

I do like your point on the intolerance of other posters. We as fans, are here to share opinions. How boring our conversations would be without differing viewpoints. Almost as boring as those posts from the charts and graph guys … bazinga!

I enjoy a lot of the stuff you post, but I developed a dislike on the overall impact of Toby's game back when the ducks took us out in four straight. I really don't want to go round and round on Toby anymore, but needless to say, I am glad we're moving on.

I am definitely cheering for Nic this year, but I will be casting a very critical eye on Trouba. I'm an emotionally/financially invested fan, I know Trouba is a good defenseman, but I'm done with him and await the trade that is inevitable in my opinion.

I like Myers. I'm concerned about his hips which is why I would prefer not to resign him. I believe he will get 5-6 million per year on his next contract if he plays a full season this year.

Also, I am the guy who says that Maurice will look at Wheeler playing some center this year.

 

[lomiller1]

Or, maybe his improved performance last year was due to slowly getting healthier and there is still more to come from him?

Or maybe it was because he was playing in a bottom pairing role and heavily sheltered...

 

[lomiller1]

I never said I'd be happy with 6+ million.

But you said you were happy with 5million which is WAY to much for a guy who needs to be in sheltered bottom pair role to be successful. Even if you signed him for that we'd be short a top 4 D-man on the right side

 

[lomiller1]

Myers at under 4 million aav and 3rd pairing with trouba out of the picture and long gone.Can't make this stuff up.

See the red spot right where the RHD stands? If this is him playing well and he has 2 more years for his play to slide even further is it any wonder people do not want him signed to a contract that forces us to play him in our top 4?
Compare that to Trouba below...

 

[ffh]

Or maybe it was because he was playing in a bottom pairing role and heavily sheltered...

yes he was heavily sheltered playing 2130 average a game with chiarot and kulikov while trouba played 2150 a game with Morrissey. playing with Morrissey is a big difference then chariot or Kulikov that's the big difference between the 2 nothing else.

 

[ps241]

I do like your point on the intolerance of other posters. We as fans, are here to share opinions. How boring our conversations would be without differing viewpoints. Almost as boring as those posts from the charts and graph guys … bazinga!

I enjoy a lot of the stuff you post, but I developed a dislike on the overall impact of Toby's game back when the ducks took us out in four straight. I really don't want to go round and round on Toby anymore, but needless to say, I am glad we're moving on.

I am definitely cheering for Nic this year, but I will be casting a very critical eye on Trouba. I'm an emotionally/financially invested fan, I know Trouba is a good defenseman, but I'm done with him and await the trade that is inevitable in my opinion.

I like Myers. I'm concerned about his hips which is why I would prefer not to resign him. I believe he will get 5-6 million per year on his next contract if he plays a full season this year.

Also, I am the guy who says that Maurice will look at Wheeler playing some center this year.

All fair points I don’t expect people to agree on things because it would be a really boaring place just saying the eye test crowd can be a pretty intolerant group as well.

To your point on Trouba it’s funny that it doesn’t bother me in the slightest on a persaonl level that he May want to get overpaid now or even want out. It really bothers me on a professional level because he is a big part of the puzzle. I will cheer as much for him this season as I ever had because he is wearing the Jets jersey for now and I want a cup. Same as Kane when he was here.....I didn’t like Kane on a personal level and knew he wanted out but when he was in the Jets jersey I cheered for him to do well.

I love the Jets as much as ever and feel married to the team. When it comes to the players, even though I have my favorites I know we are just dating and not married metaphorically speaking. I will enjoy the ride while they wear our jersey but they all have a shelf life and will move on to another city when their day is done with the Jets.

Brining it back to Myers business wise he is already overpriced for where his game is at now and he is probably due for a raise as a UFA. When we were not a Cap team I didn’t care but now that we have to start making tough choices he is on the chopping block in my eyes.

 

[GNP]

Or, maybe his improved performance last year was due to slowly getting healthier and there is still more to come from him?

If we get Myers at 5 MM or under AAV, I will be satisfie4d I wouldn't sign him for more than 4 years max as I don't know if his hips are going to ever get totally better. I saw them dislocate a couple of times last year (times when he went down like he was shot, but came back into the game).

I hope he can get completely healthy, cause I think he has more to give.

_______________________________________________________

I think the Jet's really like Myers and that's clearly shown by how much Maurice plays him. I also think Trouba is way overrated on here, and not worth the $ 7.5 mil or more, he's asking for. The Jet's and posters call him our # 1 defenseman- "he's not"--and doesn't come close to Buff. The Jet's let him think he's the # 1 D-man, so he won't wine and cry about ice time-- or on what side he plays. He didn't score that many points last year, and wasn't used on the Power Play-"for a reason"--and that reason is that Myer's is way better on the PP than Trouba-"there is no doubt" I believe Myers had 30 assists last year, and he knows how to set players up, and take control of the play--it's very evident.

I rate Trouba as a good young solid D-man that is worth around $ 6.5 mil tops, and I'd be surprised to see Chevy go anymore than that. Because Trouba doesn't want to be here, I believe this will work in the Jet's favor. They will get rid of an "overpaid headache" who is already becoming a major distraction. The "longer" the Jet's wait to deal him --the less he'll return, as no other team would want the same problem. Trade him now to a Florida team, and they get 2 years out of him, and also they likely will be able to re-sign him, because that's where his girl is, and he wants to live there. One of those Florida teams will offer a very good player in return for Trouba.

Being the sharp shrewd guy that Chevy is--I see Trouba traded by January of 2019, with a decent return coming back. It's the only smart way to go. I also see Myers signing in the $ 5 mil range over 4-5 years with the Jets--I'd like that. This will be decided by Jet's management, and a big issue will be the state of Myer's hips ?? Wait to long to trade Trouba, and your return diminishes with every passing month.

One obstacle I can see in trading Trouba soon-- is that the Jet's didn't mind that extra $ 20 million in playoff revenue for last season, and would love to have that coming in again this upcoming season,, and they may feel their best chances at receiving this extra revenue, is by keeping Trouba for one more full season. I'd rather see him traded soon as possible, and get a really good guy in return--rather than wait, and get some team's throw away !!!

In the end this will work out to be a "positive" for the Jets-- just like the Kane and Bogosian deal, and also letting Ladd walk. Chevy knows value for players, and always comes out on top --I trust he'll pull off something big here.

 

[GNP]

Trouba was never our number 1 dmant no matter how many times you say it and wouldn't be possibly for another 3 years and even then Morrissey is better all round then trouba and would be our number 1.

_______________________________________________________

Trouba is "not' our number 1 Dman-- Buff is, and will be for the next 2-3 years. He's more physical, scores more points, and is very good in the defensive end. He also has a better shot than Trouba, and a better skater. Buff would return a lot more that Trouba as an UFA--he'd get about 9.5 mil on the "open market"--and trouba would get arounf $ 7.5 mil --at the very most- $ 8 mil. Right now Buff is "really' our number 1 Dman.

How can you get a guy as big and tough as Buff, that can score and do it all ??--you'd have to pay some "big bucs" to sign him.

 

[ps241]

_______________________________________________________

Trouba is "not' our number 1 Dman-- Buff is, and will be for the next 2-3 years. He's more physical, scores more points, and is very good in the defensive end. He also has a better shot than Trouba, and a better skater. Buff would return a lot more that Trouba as an UFA--he'd get about 9.5 mil on the "open market"--and trouba would get arounf $ 7.5 mil --at the very most- $ 8 mil. Right now Buff is "really' our number 1 Dman.

How can you get a guy as big and tough as Buff, that can score and do it all ??--you'd have to pay some "big bucs" to sign him.

I feel we have 3 nice top pairing D men and I don’t split hairs too much on who is number 1. We lean on Trouba and Morrissey to play the toughest minutes and Buff is ideally suited to his roll last year carrying anyone on the second unit. Buff leads the PP and Trouba leads the PK. At 5v5 they both drive offense. Morrissey is that guy who gets thrown in the toughest situations and all he does is make it look easy and play mistake free hockey. We are blessed to have 3 great D men to carry this team.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Nhl.com has been in shambles for a long time. Some useful stats are listed there, but they are few and far between.

I don't like the way you're sorting players (as it suggests that there are exactly 62 top pairing level D-men in the NHL etc.) but for a so-called 'offensively good defenseman', 155th best in 5v5 production is hardly acceptable. That is magnified when the poor defensive results and sheltered usage is accounted for.

So I took the time to reconsider your post regarding Myers being 155th best & decided that's it's a bit of malarkey.

You've allowed far too many players to enter this equation. There's 136 defencemen that played 1000+ minutes last season. To set the bar at 250 minutes is allowing a number of players that played 15-ish games to skew these results making your point obtuse.

Lets instead look at 153 defencemen that played 900 minutes or more, the Jets placed:

21st-1.09 Trouba
55th-0.84 Morrissey
59th-0.83 Byfuglien
98th-0.64 Myers

And for comparison:
121st-0.55 Brady Skeij
120th-0.55 Samuel Girard
115th-0.58 Duncan Keith
93rd-0.67 Chris Letang
79th-0.73 Cam Fowler
75th-0.75 Oliver Ekman-Larsson
74th-0.75 Hampus Lindolm

If we're going to call attention to the warts on Myers, let do so with his defensive game & not hide behind sample size to conclude he's poor offensively 5x5.

 

[lomiller1]

So I took the time to reconsider your post regarding Myers being 155th best & decided that's it's a bit of malarkey.

You've allowed far too many players to enter this equation. There's 136 defencemen that played 1000+ minutes last season. To set the bar at 250 minutes is allowing a number of players that played 15-ish games to skew these results making your point obtuse.

Lets instead look at 153 defencemen that played 900 minutes or more, the Jets placed:

21st-1.09 Trouba
55th-0.84 Morrissey
59th-0.83 Byfuglien
98th-0.64 Myers

FYI Trouba had 2 more 5v5 points than Corsica credits him for. The same thing happened in 2016/17. Morrissey had 4 more points that Corsica credits, Buff had 1 more.
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick



Actual P/60:
Trouba
2017/18 1.22
2016/17 1.30

Morrissey
2017/18 1.03

Buff
2017/18 0.88