Tyler Myers next contract?

[lomiller1]

How do you know that? AFAIK playing without goalie (6-on-5 or 5-on-6) doesn't count as 5-on-5 in Corsica. That's why Wheeler has substantially worse 5-on-5 stats that many people thought since his 6-on-5 stats are counted in normal (flawed) +/-. Not sure if those missing goals for Trouba are also 6-on-5 or 5-on-6.

In Trouba's case they are 5v5. The 5v5 point totals at Corsica differ from other similar sites. The all situations point totals at Corsica differ from the official numbers. It’s pure speculation on my part, but I was thinking Corsica isn't capturing scoring changes properly.

 

[lomiller1]

Myers made $3 million last season. His $10 million signing bonus six seasons ago inflated his AAV.

I also just listed players making considerably more than Myers than are in his ballpark for P/60.



Byfuglien plays a sheltered role? Gardiner? He's 2nd in the NHL in even 5x5 minutes. Burns? He's 3rd. Dumba? He's 8th.

He doesn’t face the other teams top players as often as Trouba or Morrissey, so he’s somewhat sheltered in that respect (more like second pair competition than top pair).

Also worth noting that that while Buff led the Jets D in ice time per game Trouba was the leader in shifts per game. IOW Buff’s ice time is a consequence of him extending shifts not the coaches putting him on the ice more often.
Shifts per game
Trouba 25.5
Buff 25.0
Myers 24.9
Morrissey 24.7
Enstrom 22.1
Chiarot 18.6
Poolman 16.4

 

[Flair Hay]

Last season Trouba was out for a while and PMo tried To use Myers on the top paring with Morrissey and as I recall they got eaten alive?

Tyler does not suck but he is limited now and he is not the answer when it comes to an “enduring starting role” in our top 4 at a high cap hit. I would prefer to ignore handedness before I did that. The other challenge for Tyler is the left side is emerging so he no longer has an Enstrom type to play with.

Thankfully it doesn’t matter this season. Chevy has his work cut out for him retooling his D core after this season though. If he signs Myers long term to be our #2 RHD man then an aging Buff might need to play 25 minutes a night again eating the toughest minutes! If that happens our team will have taken a BIG step backwards.

I remember Murat in an article saying that Morrissey and Myers did quite well numbers wise overall with one rough game included.

 

[lomiller1]

I do realize there are stats meant to monitor this. If you'd care to get into detail as to the difference between a player with a 27.88 TOI QoC compares to another at 29.75 at TOI CoC, I'm listening.

Myers faces the other teams best forwards a little less than a typical NHL D-man and faced the weakest competition of the Jets big 3 RHD. The difference it makes in the results probably isn’t that big but that works against him when you look at his relatively low productivity and the fact he did this in his own zone:

 

[Maukkis]

Myers faces the other teams best forwards a little less than a typical NHL D-man and faced the weakest competition of the Jets big 3 RHD. The difference it makes in the results probably isn’t that big but that works against him when you look at his relatively low productivity and the fact he did this in his own zone:

Additionally...

2017-18, 5v5 regular season

Relative xGF%:

Enstrom: 9.12
Trouba: 4.96
Morrissey: 2.45
Buff: 2.21
------
Kulikov: -4.07
Myers: -6.49
Chiarot: -6.73

(Poolman: -1.38)
(Morrow: -2.25)

When your pairing is relied on the least to take on tough assignments, you cannot have results like this.

 

[ffh]

bottom line is myers is a more then capable 2nd pairing dman. and it is better having him as one at around 5 million aav then having trouba as the 2nd pairing dman at around 8 aav. looks like so far the team feels the same way by not overpaying trouba.

 

[Maukkis]

bottom line is myers is a more then capable 2nd pairing dman. and it is better having him as one at around 5 million aav then having trouba as the 2nd pairing dman at around 8 aav. looks like so far the team feels the same way by not overpaying trouba.

Repeating an opinion does not make it a) a fact, or b) accurate.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Additionally...

2017-18, 5v5 regular season

Relative xGF%:

Enstrom: 9.12
Trouba: 4.96
Morrissey: 2.45
Buff: 2.21
------
Kulikov: -4.07
Myers: -6.49
Chiarot: -6.73

(Poolman: -1.38)
(Morrow: -2.25)

When your pairing is relied on the least to take on tough assignments, you cannot have results like this.

And there's no doubting Myers defensive shortcomings, particularly early this season. I said as much repeatedly throughout this discourse.

You alleged his offence was also an issue and once I argued otherwise you pivoted to several other topics.

 

[Maukkis]

And there's no doubting Myers defensive shortcomings, particularly early this season. I said as much repeatedly throughout this discourse.

You alleged his offence was also an issue and once I argued otherwise you pivoted to several other topics.

I have posted proof of his offensive production being lackluster. The fact that you did not agree with the sample size I used does not change that.

Keep in mind that xGF% is affected by both offensive and defensive production. But just to dig a bit deeper...

xGF/60

Trouba: 2.55
Buff: 2.42
Morrissey: 2.50
Myers: 2.24
Enstrom: 2.46
Kulikov: 2.23

You can easily distinguish each pairing from the numbers, and once again, it is Myers and Kulikov lagging behind.

 

[Duke749]

bottom line is myers is a more then capable 2nd pairing dman. and it is better having him as one at around 5 million aav then having trouba as the 2nd pairing dman at around 8 aav. looks like so far the team feels the same way by not overpaying trouba.

This makes no sense.

 

[Gm0ney]

This makes no sense.

It's better to pay a shitty defenseman $5.5M to play on the second pairing, than pay a great defenseman $2.5M more to play the same role? That's how you win Cups!

 

[ffh]

It's better to pay a ****ty defenseman $5.5M to play on the second pairing, than pay a great defenseman $2.5M more to play the same role? That's how you win Cups!

Chevy thinks so or he would have signed trouba for 2.5 million more. Maybe your definition of great isn't the same as chevys. Most people would stipulate trouba is better. Means absolutely nothing since he doesn't want to be here and the team won't pay what he wants. Some would rather on focus on players that might want to play here and not those that don't.

 

[MardyBum]

bottom line is myers is a more then capable 2nd pairing dman. and it is better having him as one at around 5 million aav then having trouba as the 2nd pairing dman at around 8 aav. looks like so far the team feels the same way by not overpaying trouba.

You need to start qualifying these hot takes with something.

1. Myers isn't a "more than capable second pairing dman"

2. Trouba doesn't get second pairing minutes, or second pairing competition, or score or defend like a "second pairing dman"

3. Trouba @ 8 >>>>>>> Myers @ 5.

 

[MardyBum]

Chevy thinks so or he would have signed trouba for 2.5 million more. Maybe your definition of great isn't the same as chevys. Most people would stipulate trouba is better. Means absolutely nothing since he doesn't want to be here and the team won't pay what he wants. Some would rather on focus on players that might want to play here and not those that don't.

You don't know what Chevy is thinking. You don't know the details of their contract discussions, or if there were even any outside of arb asks. *insert Ygritte gif*

Jesus.

 

[lomiller1]

bottom line is myers is a more then capable 2nd pairing dman.

Just saying it over and over doesn’t make it true. No matter what direction I approach it from I can’t see him as anything more than a 4/5 on the way down.

it is better having him as one at around 5 million aav then having trouba as the 2nd pairing dman at around 8 aav.

Trouba was unquestionably on the Jets top pair last year. If you are going to overpay somebody by 1-2 million it’s got to be the top pairing guy all day long, 365 days a year.

 

[lomiller1]

And there's no doubting Myers defensive shortcomings, particularly early this season. I said as much repeatedly throughout this discourse.

You alleged his offence was also an issue and once I argued otherwise you pivoted to several other topics.

Nah, his offence is an issue. His scoring rates was around the 35th percentile which is basically the borderline between a 2nd and 3rd pairing D-man.
You just misunderstood the reason for limiting ourselves to just looking at players with X min played. We do this because at small sample sizes there is a lot of random noise, and this is a quick easy way to eliminate that. This doesn’t really change the fact that ~2 our of every 3 D-men in the NHL produced at higher rates than Myers did last year.

 

[ffh]

Just saying it over and over doesn’t make it true. No matter what direction I approach it from I can’t see him as anything more than a 4/5 on the way down.

Trouba was unquestionably on the Jets top pair last year. If you are going to overpay somebody by 1-2 million it’s got to be the top pairing guy all day long, 365 days a year.

Trouba was not our top pairing last year. Buff had more minutes then him and in the playoffs buff was averaging a whopping 5 whole minutes a game more. Jets decided to pay buff the 1 or 2 million more you talk about and not trouba.Their top pairing guy is buff.

 

[ffh]

You don't know what Chevy is thinking. You don't know the details of their contract discussions, or if there were even any outside of arb asks. *insert Ygritte gif*

Jesus.

you believe what you want. these guys couldn't even agree on a 1 year contract but went to arbitration. if you are negotiating in good faith you sign a 1 year contract like stone did not go through the arb process. he is either asking for way more then he is worth or not even bothering to negotiate. either way he is as good as gone.

 

[lomiller1]

Trouba was not our top pairing last year. Buff had more minutes then him and in the playoffs buff was averaging a whopping 5 whole minutes a game more. Jets decided to pay buff the 1 or 2 million more you talk about and not trouba.Their top pairing guy is buff.

Taking extra long shifts and playing on the PP doesn’t make someone a top pairing D. Trouba played more shifts per game and was matched up against the other teams best plays. That is a pretty clear indication who the top pair was.

 

[MardyBum]

you believe what you want. these guys couldn't even agree on a 1 year contract but went to arbitration. if you are negotiating in good faith you sign a 1 year contract like stone did not go through the arb process. he is either asking for way more then he is worth or not even bothering to negotiate. either way he is as good as gone.

Maybe they wanted to sign a long term deal, but couldn't agree on price so they agreed to take a 1 year arb deal on a prove it year. Maybe Trouba wants out and they never discussed a contract. Maybe Chevy's as stupid as some of the posters on here thinking Trouba is a second pairing dman and only deserves 5 mil a year on a long term deal.

The point is you don't know, so quit acting like you stating your opinion of Chevy's opinion is fact.

 

[ffh]

Maybe they wanted to sign a long term deal, but couldn't agree on price so they agreed to take a 1 year arb deal on a prove it year. Maybe Trouba wants out and they never discussed a contract. Maybe Chevy's as stupid as some of the posters on here thinking Trouba is a second pairing dman and only deserves 5 mil a year on a long term deal.

The point is you don't know, so quit acting like you stating your opinion of Chevy's opinion is fact.

again then sign a 1 year deal without going to arbitration like stone. that would have been a good sign. but to not even do that speaks volumes.

 

[Duke749]

Chevy thinks so or he would have signed trouba for 2.5 million more. Maybe your definition of great isn't the same as chevys. Most people would stipulate trouba is better. Means absolutely nothing since he doesn't want to be here and the team won't pay what he wants. Some would rather on focus on players that might want to play here and not those that don't.

Chevy is smarter then that. Stop implying he doesn’t make sense either.

 

[MardyBum]

again then sign a 1 year deal without going to arbitration like stone. that would have been a good sign. but to not even do that speaks volumes.

Maybe they weren't offering what Trouba thought he was worth? Maybe he wants out.

None of this means you know what Chevy is thinking.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Maybe they weren't offering what Trouba thought he was worth? Maybe he wants out.

None of this means you know what Chevy is thinking.

I mentioned elsewhere that if Trouba wants out, Chevy would know it & should have long ago dealt him. For us true believers, this had long been our reasoning. Assuming that's still the case, what happened?

If one year of Trouba is worth $5.5 million, ask yourself what more term look like? Likely begins at $7 million.

So now ask yourself if an immediate signing of Morrissey long term coupled with a $7 million AAV Trouba signing was possible this off-season.

I realize I'm grasping at straws, but it still remains a slim possibility that putting off the Trouba signing was a cap ploy to keep this years AAV down, and Trouba still signs in January. Then only next years cap and beyond would be affected.

It's a thought anyways...

 

[ffh]

Maybe they weren't offering what Trouba thought he was worth? Maybe he wants out.

None of this means you know what Chevy is thinking.

I know 1 thing. chevy would have moved heaven and earth to at least sign a 1 year contract and not go to arb with a star player. trouba not so much.