Player Discussion Tyler Motte: What to do?

[wonton15]

If we didn't have the Dickinson contract I would highly consider going as high as that for Motte. In short, we need to move Dickinson.

If someone comes to us offering a mid 2nd rounder, we seriously have to consider that. Lockwood is also on the sidelines waiting for his chance - he's 23 turning 24 and he's getting to the point where he's ready to seriously compete for a spot.

 

[Vector]

I wonder if the market isn't as excited for Motte as it should be. He's not even rated in Seravalli's top-30 deadline trade targets. That seems crazy to me.

 

[Pip]

Motte has become a great player and should garner significant interest at the deadline and I believe we should be moving him. Given his playstyle and injury history I don’t see him maintaining a high level of play over multiple full seasons which is fine at his current contract but he will be making far too much on this next contract for what he’s likely to bring.

 

[tradervik]

Keep Motte if his contract demands are reasonable. Get rid of Dickinson (useless) and Pearson (useful, but too expensive for what he brings).

Management needs to figure this out before the trade deadline.

 

[MS]

Motte has become a great player and should garner significant interest at the deadline and I believe we should be moving him. Given his playstyle and injury history I don’t see him maintaining a high level of play over multiple full seasons which is fine at his current contract but he will be making far too much on this next contract for what he’s likely to bring.

One thing that has received zero notice here is that post-neck surgery Motte has really changed how he's played this year and has hugely ramped down the physicality while remaining effective as a player. It will be interesting to see if this lengthens his career.

2018-19 200 hits/945 minutes = 0.21
2019-20 118 hits/446 mintues = 0.26
2020-21 100 hits/384 minutes = 0.26
2021-22 61 hits/516 minutes = 0.11

Like, it's more than cut in half.

 

[Tim Calhoun]

He's a guy who has shown enough ability to produce at ES that it would be interesting to see him play with more talented linemates on occasion. His production and role look very similar to what we saw from Burrows in 07/08 (not saying he is the next Burrows but we should explore if his ceiling is higher).

 

[tradervik]

One thing that has received zero notice here is that post-neck surgery Motte has really changed how he's played this year and has hugely ramped down the physicality while remaining effective as a player. It will be interesting to see if this lengthens his career.

2018-19 200 hits/945 minutes = 0.21
2019-20 118 hits/446 mintues = 0.26
2020-21 100 hits/384 minutes = 0.26
2021-22 61 hits/516 minutes = 0.11

Like, it's more than cut in half.

This is very interesting. Motte will be 27 in a few weeks but I can see the Canucks offering a bit of term and a healthy raise if they believe he can maintain his play. As many people have commented, he seems to be too good a fit for what Vinford is apparently trying to build.

 

[F A N]

I don't like it either but Motte will want term (im thinking 3yrs at minimum) and will be getting to the ages where he will likely be breaking down (we had this discussion re:Roussel and you proved a good point on ages and 4th liners without size) and it's a poor cap allocation to spend that much on 4th liners collectively and the extension would take away almost all of the little wiggle room they have.

Motte is a few yrs younger 27 vs 29 from Roussel so i understand that and wouldn't be afraid on 3yrs but him getting hurt is a more likely scenario as the hard miles add up. Another consideration not a big one though

I always wonder about the "hard miles" argument. Roussel being an agitator and fighting his way up, he likely took a lot of extra abuse.

Motte? He's really not the same type of player. Given his injuries and healthy scratches earlier in his career, he actually hasn't played a lot. At about the same age, Roussel has played about the same number of NHL minutes as Motte but Roussel spent significant time in the AHL while Motte did not.

 

[MS]

One thing that has received zero notice here is that post-neck surgery Motte has really changed how he's played this year and has hugely ramped down the physicality while remaining effective as a player. It will be interesting to see if this lengthens his career.

2018-19 200 hits/945 minutes = 0.21
2019-20 118 hits/446 mintues = 0.26
2020-21 100 hits/384 minutes = 0.26
2021-22 61 hits/516 minutes = 0.11

Like, it's more than cut in half.

I'll also add that this isn't just a 'was careful after coming back and is ramping up the physicality now' thing. The reverse is actually happening.

In the 19 game run since January 1 that he's had with Lammikko and Highmore where he has 10 points, he's thrown 24 hits/291 minutes = 0.08. So he's playing the best/most productive hockey of his career right now while throwing hits at 1/3 of his historic rate.

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

Motte is also a lowkey super dirty player so he doesnt really need to hit or fight a lot anymore to provide energy and be a pest.

 

[F A N]

One thing that has received zero notice here is that post-neck surgery Motte has really changed how he's played this year and has hugely ramped down the physicality while remaining effective as a player. It will be interesting to see if this lengthens his career.

2018-19 200 hits/945 minutes = 0.21
2019-20 118 hits/446 mintues = 0.26
2020-21 100 hits/384 minutes = 0.26
2021-22 61 hits/516 minutes = 0.11

Like, it's more than cut in half.

I'll also add that this isn't just a 'was careful after coming back and is ramping up the physicality now' thing. The reverse is actually happening.

In the 19 game run since January 1 that he's had with Lammikko and Highmore where he has 10 points, he's thrown 24 hits/291 minutes = 0.08. So he's playing the best/most productive hockey of his career right now while throwing hits at 1/3 of his historic rate.

Ya. I do think Motte's injury has taken something out of his game. It is noticeable and I think the hits stats you posted support this.

In his two previous seasons, Motte's shooting % was (for him) abnormally high. It has come down to more regular levels this season and I wonder if it's because he's not driving to the net as hard as before or it was merely a small sample size previously and unsustainable in the first place. He is racking up assists at a career high rate currently and that is coming from playing with Lammikko and Highmore.

It'll be interesting to see how Motte's production averages out over the course of a full season (if he can stay healthy).

 

[Cancuks]

Trade him and then resign him after the season.

 

[LaVal]

It 100% depends on his contract demands. If he's looking for something well north of $3 million then I'd trade him at the deadline. If he wants to stay and seems willing to sign for a reasonable amount then I'd get working on that extension now.

With that being said, there's no reason for Motte to sign a reasonable extension unless he really wants to stay in Vancouver. With his health concerns he isn't likely to have a long career. This is his time to cash in.

 

[StreetHawk]

It 100% depends on his contract demands. If he's looking for something well north of $3 million then I'd trade him at the deadline. If he wants to stay and seems willing to sign for a reasonable amount then I'd get working on that extension now.

With that being said, there's no reason for Motte to sign a reasonable extension unless he really wants to stay in Vancouver. With his health concerns he isn't likely to have a long career. This is his time to cash in.

I concur. He will be a 27 year old ufa this off season (which is as early as a guy can fit ufa barring him being a super talented teenager), and with a neck surgery as well. He’s made like $5 plus mill so far in his career per capfriendly with 1/3 of the year to go so another $500k due to him. This is the time to get paid.

 

[m9]

I think Motte has probably priced himself into the 3 million x 4 years range if he keeps playing like this and he hits UFA. That's probably a bit much. If he isn't willing to talk extension right now, then I think you have to trade him.

On the other side, if you can do 2 million x 3 years you do it in a second.

So the most likely scenario to me is that it's somehow in between. He gets 2.25-275 over 3 or 4 years and everyone kind of just shrugs and says "seems about right"

From a negotiation standpoint, you probably should get Highmore & Lammikko signed first since they will be cheaper. Then you work on Motte from there.

 

[F A N]

I think Motte has probably priced himself into the 3 million x 4 years range if he keeps playing like this and he hits UFA. That's probably a bit much. If he isn't willing to talk extension right now, then I think you have to trade him.

On the other side, if you can do 2 million x 3 years you do it in a second.

So the most likely scenario to me is that it's somehow in between. He gets 2.25-275 over 3 or 4 years and everyone kind of just shrugs and says "seems about right"

From a negotiation standpoint, you probably should get Highmore & Lammikko signed first since they will be cheaper. Then you work on Motte from there.

Given Motte's injury history, I would be surprised if he got $3M AAV. I suspect that teams don't necessarily seem him as a 3rd line anchor? I do agree that if he gets what Dickinson gets we'll just shrug it off and say ok.

Both Highmore and Lammikko are RFAs so it'll work itself out soon enough. Absolutely no urgency to re-sign them, especially Highmore who may not be part of the club's plans beyond this season.

 

[m9]

Given Motte's injury history, I would be surprised if he got $3M AAV. I suspect that teams don't necessarily seem him as a 3rd line anchor? I do agree that if he gets what Dickinson gets we'll just shrug it off and say ok.

Both Highmore and Lammikko are RFAs so it'll work itself out soon enough. Absolutely no urgency to re-sign them, especially Highmore who may not be part of the club's plans beyond this season.

I think if you see 2.5 as a reasonable price for him then you have to consider 3 a potential if not likely UFA outcome. We've seen it countless times with the UFA market.

 

[F A N]

I think if you see 2.5 as a reasonable price for him then you have to consider 3 a potential if not likely UFA outcome. We've seen it countless times with the UFA market.

I think it comes down to whether Motte is seen has a 3rd line forward. I can't think of a perceived 4th line winger signing for $3M AAV in recent memory. Nick Ritchie got $2.5M last summer. Jesper Fast is on a $2M AAV deal. Those who are closer to the $3M AAV for their UFA years tend to also play C or having spent time playing on the 2nd line.

Motte is kind of a weird one. He has spent a bit of time up playing up the lineup but he wasn't exactly productive in that role. He's spent most of his time playing 3rd line minutes with 4th line linemates and has been very productive.

 

[tradervik]

I think Motte has probably priced himself into the 3 million x 4 years range if he keeps playing like this and he hits UFA. That's probably a bit much. If he isn't willing to talk extension right now, then I think you have to trade him.

On the other side, if you can do 2 million x 3 years you do it in a second.

So the most likely scenario to me is that it's somehow in between. He gets 2.25-275 over 3 or 4 years and everyone kind of just shrugs and says "seems about right"

From a negotiation standpoint, you probably should get Highmore & Lammikko signed first since they will be cheaper. Then you work on Motte from there.

I'm on board with this with the caveat that, as a free agent, Motte might be a victim of the "middle class squeeze" that is seeing cap dollars shifting to younger RFAs. We all like Motte but is he good enough that he'll be in that first wave of UFA signings that get good money, or will he wind up waiting for other players to get signed and be forced to accept whatever is left over?

 

[Bettman Returnz]

I agree with those who say it’s more contingent on trading Dickinson/ Pearson… and if you can resign him for low-mid 2’s then perhaps you resign… otherwise trade him for best offer at deadline.

 

[RussianRacket]

Keep him. He'll be great in the playoffs come April/May/June.

 

[m9]

I think it comes down to whether Motte is seen has a 3rd line forward. I can't think of a perceived 4th line winger signing for $3M AAV in recent memory. Nick Ritchie got $2.5M last summer. Jesper Fast is on a $2M AAV deal. Those who are closer to the $3M AAV for their UFA years tend to also play C or having spent time playing on the 2nd line.

Motte is kind of a weird one. He has spent a bit of time up playing up the lineup but he wasn't exactly productive in that role. He's spent most of his time playing 3rd line minutes with 4th line linemates and has been very productive.

Yeah, for sure. I wonder how his usage/production would compare to someone like Roussel before his contract here.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I voted to re sign him, but obviously, that all depends on how much $ he wants, and does he want to remain with the Canucks.

He's the straw that stirs the drink on an energy line that is playing over 15 minutes a game...If you're paying $4,5M total, for the entire line (assuming Motte gets around $2.5M),....That looks like a deal to me.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'm on board with this with the caveat that, as a free agent, Motte might be a victim of the "middle class squeeze" that is seeing cap dollars shifting to younger RFAs. We all like Motte but is he good enough that he'll be in that first wave of UFA signings that get good money, or will he wind up waiting for other players to get signed and be forced to accept whatever is left over?

Given his age of 27, I doubt he would get squeezed. Think guys in their early 30’s May get squeezed but not someone who should perform over the duration of the contract barring injury.

 

[LordBacon]

Keep him. He'll be great in the playoffs come April/May/June.

can i have what youre smoking?