Player Discussion: Tyler Johnson

[The Gongshow]

The way he's been playing I think we'd have to add 2 picks just to dump him.

I really think he'll be motivated again with another team, but we can't even move him so a buyout might be the way. Save a couple million (not a lotL but we need every penny right now ans I'd rather have anything than pay his $5mil

 

[Lightning1995]

What a liability.

 

[Lightning1995]

Coop should be ashamed of himself playing TJ 6v5

 

[JTBF81]

The way he's been playing I think we'd have to add 2 picks just to dump him.

I really think he'll be motivated again with another team, but we can't even move him so a buyout might be the way. Save a couple million (not a lotL but we need every penny right now ans I'd rather have anything than pay his $5mil

Agreed. Even though it would sting to pay him 1.5 a year over the next 6 years, the team would save 3.5. It’s likely this vs having to pay, at minimum, a high pick + mid to high pick/good prospect to convince Seattle or someone else to take him. I’ve defended him on here and other sites, believing that last year was an outlier and that he wasn’t simply declining. Clearly though, that is not the case.

 

[CupsOverCash]

 

[JTBF81]

That about says it all really. Who gives a **** if he’s been here a long time? Oh that’s right, he’s one of Coop’s boys, so he gets playing time despite him being nothing but an anchor at this point.

 

[HoseEmDown]

A Johnson buyout saves us nearly 4M next season, he would carry a 1.055M dead cap. The following year that number goes up to 2.8M which could be a problem. But if we are going to have a 1M dead cap with a buyout maybe we could retain 1M on him and have an easier time trading him with less assets needed. We could always trade him to Seattle at that price which would be much better for them, he could still be a 40 point scorer he just will be a -30 as well.

 

[The Gongshow]

Anything to get him off the team at this point

 

[Todd1a]

Anything to get him off the team at this point

rip our 1st rounder in 2022 to Seattle and a 3rd for them to take Johnson!

 

[HoseEmDown]

Some things that may make a buyout a bit more realistic. Brayden Point is no longer the point per game player we thought he would be. He's still very good and our 1C but he was under last year and is under again this year. With the flat cap we may be able to get him cheaper, maybe 8M a year. Stamkos health will make it very hard for us to give him any significant money on his next deal if he makes it to that. His deal doesn't expire for 3 more years but those would be the extra Johnson years. So the 1.5M dead cap could be offset with Stamkos taking a super team friendly deal to finish out his career. Palat is tradeable this summer, Killorn is tradeable this summer, Gourde will be the summer Johnson jumps to 2.8M dead cap. We would need some prospects be ready to break out because that's a lot of firepower we may have to let walk.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Some things that may make a buyout a bit more realistic. Brayden Point is no longer the point per game player we thought he would be. He's still very good and our 1C but he was under last year and is under again this year. With the flat cap we may be able to get him cheaper, maybe 8M a year. Stamkos health will make it very hard for us to give him any significant money on his next deal if he makes it to that. His deal doesn't expire for 3 more years but those would be the extra Johnson years. So the 1.5M dead cap could be offset with Stamkos taking a super team friendly deal to finish out his career. Palat is tradeable this summer, Killorn is tradeable this summer, Gourde will be the summer Johnson jumps to 2.8M dead cap. We would need some prospects be ready to break out because that's a lot of firepower we may have to let walk.

Will be a little different team next year. That doesn't always mean worse. Just raises questions on how they will be compared to recent time here.

 

[Todd1a]

Some things that may make a buyout a bit more realistic. Brayden Point is no longer the point per game player we thought he would be. He's still very good and our 1C but he was under last year and is under again this year. With the flat cap we may be able to get him cheaper, maybe 8M a year. Stamkos health will make it very hard for us to give him any significant money on his next deal if he makes it to that. His deal doesn't expire for 3 more years but those would be the extra Johnson years. So the 1.5M dead cap could be offset with Stamkos taking a super team friendly deal to finish out his career. Palat is tradeable this summer, Killorn is tradeable this summer, Gourde will be the summer Johnson jumps to 2.8M dead cap. We would need some prospects be ready to break out because that's a lot of firepower we may have to let walk.

so is the buy out more worth it to you then to add the assets to trade Johnson? While point may not cost as much as we thought? After the bridge deals for serge, cirell and cernak they will be getting raises. So your trading palat and killorn who is replacing there production also ?

 

[JTBF81]

A Johnson buyout saves us nearly 4M next season, he would carry a 1.055M dead cap. The following year that number goes up to 2.8M which could be a problem. But if we are going to have a 1M dead cap with a buyout maybe we could retain 1M on him and have an easier time trading him with less assets needed. We could always trade him to Seattle at that price which would be much better for them, he could still be a 40 point scorer he just will be a -30 as well.

Yeah, that seems like a reasonable option. I'd rather not give up the '22 1st to have to move him, but barring a buy out, not sure if even retaining 1 million does it. Maybe retaining a million+a good prospect+the '23 2nd, or if they get a 2nd in a move for Killorn/Palat. I still think they might try and keep Savard as well, as Tampa's plan has usually been to re-sign guys they trade for at the deadline. There is a way they can make it work if they are willing to do what they have to do and move McD as well as Johnson. If they go out and sign a Kulikov type for 3LD, they could possibly have Hedman, Serg and Kulikov for the left, and Cernak, Savard, Rutta/Schenn/Foote on the right. They also might be able to keep Claesson or Thomas if they want. The alternative in this scenario could be keeping Coleman and not Savard, if Coleman took a deal similar to Lowry or in that range. Tampa would then have enough to probably sign a 1-1.5 million cheaper depth RD and a 1 million or so backup G. I haven't done all the exact math yet, but something like that could be a possibility.

 

[HoseEmDown]

so is the buy out more worth it to you then to add the assets to trade Johnson? While point may not cost as much as we thought? After the bridge deals for serge, cirell and cernak they will be getting raises. So your trading palat and killorn who is replacing there production also ?

If the buyout was 1M all 6 years I would be more in line with it but since it goes to 2.8, drop to 1.8 then 1.5 the last 3 I don't know if we can. So it would depend on what we could get back in trades for Palat or Killorn to see what assets I would add to Johnson. The problem becomes the buyout window is before the start of the new league year so Palat still has his NTC, Killorn doesn't so he could be moved right after the playoffs end. Seattle was really the best hope for Johnson and it's still possible but not getting any easier when kids like Joseph and Colton are playing how they are, no right minded GM would pass on those for Johnson so the offer would need to be big.

When it comes to the bridges Cirelli isn't doing himself any favors this year. He's in a massive slump himself but has time to right the ship. Sergachev and Cernak will be expensive 7M and 4.5-5M type so we need at least 5M. The hope would be to convince McDonagh to waive and trade him, that's where we need to find the money from. We can't keep slashing forward payroll to pay the defense, we need to take from both for all these raises.

 

[Zwui21]

Remember when Kuch got benched because of a turnover?
Why the same doesn't apply to a player that has shown no commitment and engagement for half the games he played this season? Such bs

 

[LightningStrikes]

Fire Cooper!

 

[These Are The Days]

We're definitely seeing the dark side of Coop that turned us against him long ago. I used to wonder if the guy ever did anything at all ever. As this relates to Johnson, he's got to put an end to whatever the hell his problem is. I'm okay with Coop being such a minimalist at times but it's time to healthy scratch him already.

 

[DFC]

Remember when Kuch got benched because of a turnover?
Why the same doesn't apply to a player that has shown no commitment and engagement for half the games he played this season? Such bs

Because we're trying not to make other teams' cases for how much we have to pay to get Johnson off the roster in the off-season. When the games really matter, Johnson will likely be used much more in line with what he's bringing, which means he could see a lot of pressbox time. Coop could very easily have a directive from management telling him to keep playing Johnson through all his issues. We saw that with Malone and with Teddy Purcell. Probably Val Filppula too. Johnson's case is more dire because, with those guys, we were trying to move them at the TDL; with Johnson, we're trying to build a case for an off-season move, which is that much tougher.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Some things that may make a buyout a bit more realistic. Brayden Point is no longer the point per game player we thought he would be. He's still very good and our 1C but he was under last year and is under again this year. With the flat cap we may be able to get him cheaper, maybe 8M a year. Stamkos health will make it very hard for us to give him any significant money on his next deal if he makes it to that. His deal doesn't expire for 3 more years but those would be the extra Johnson years. So the 1.5M dead cap could be offset with Stamkos taking a super team friendly deal to finish out his career. Palat is tradeable this summer, Killorn is tradeable this summer, Gourde will be the summer Johnson jumps to 2.8M dead cap. We would need some prospects be ready to break out because that's a lot of firepower we may have to let walk.

It's best we extend Point this offseason, as we did with Kucherov & Vasilevskiy one year prior to their deals expiring. His offense could explode in his contract year, there have been a lot of factors hindering him the last two seasons (hip surgery recovery, shortened season + short offseason, no Kucherov, tight defensive Central division).

I think we'll have to concede some dollars in the negotiation because it's in Point's best interest to wait a year before extending. But I could see that number being something kind, I would be happy with a 8.5M cap hit. Getting some cost certainty this offseason will make the other dominos fall easier.

 

[DFC]

I think Point's extension will be decided more by the playoffs than anything he does in the season. If the team tries to bring him in at 8 or under, he might want another season to bring his A-game more often. He definitely seems to strategically take nights off right now, which I'm not against, so long as he never does it in the post-season.

Even when he's "On" right now, he's not using his speed/hands to drive the net the way we saw in the playoffs. He's playing more the Barzal style of erring toward the perimeter when things get dangerous, and I don't really mind it because we want him healthy. If he keeps that up in the playoffs, and doesn't return to the dominant force we saw last year, then it will probably have a big effect on his contract. He was really, really hard to contain last year, but it might be too risky to play that way on random regular season nights. He didn't hold up for the entire playoffs.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Worst game of Tyler Johnson's career?

Terrible

 

[These Are The Days]

Because we're trying not to make other teams' cases for how much we have to pay to get Johnson off the roster in the off-season. When the games really matter, Johnson will likely be used much more in line with what he's bringing, which means he could see a lot of pressbox time. Coop could very easily have a directive from management telling him to keep playing Johnson through all his issues. We saw that with Malone and with Teddy Purcell. Probably Val Filppula too. Johnson's case is more dire because, with those guys, we were trying to move them at the TDL; with Johnson, we're trying to build a case for an off-season move, which is that much tougher.

That was confirmed with Purcell? God that explains so much

 

[DFC]

That was confirmed with Purcell? God that explains so much

I don't know that it was confirmed, but he went from a staple in the top-six pre-deadline to a healthy scratch post deadline. That's enough confirmation for me.

 

[Sky04]

I don't know that it was confirmed, but he went from a staple in the top-six pre-deadline to a healthy scratch post deadline. That's enough confirmation for me.

What you heard is probably right along the lines of "showcasing" but you're defintely thinking it goes further than it does. He goes a better oppertunity to start and he had more of a rope that's about it, but so do all veterans.

He wasn't healthy scratched once post-deadline that year, he missed 1 game due to flu and played every game that season including all games in the playoffs.

 

[DFC]

What you heard is probably right along the lines of "showcasing" but you're defintely thinking it goes further than it does. He goes a better oppertunity to start and he had more of a rope that's about it, but so do all veterans.

He wasn't healthy scratched once post-deadline that year, he missed 1 game due to flu and played every game that season including all games in the playoffs.

I'm confusing it with Malone, who was scratched. Purcell was immediately demoted to a lower line though.