Tyler Bozak - Positive or Negative impact on the team?

[The Blue Devil]

I'm not going to go dig up old posts that we both know exist. It's a fact. I didn't say it was the only reason Bozak is a whipping boy but it certainly is there.

There is only one person who I've seen talk about whether he was drafted or not and that's DO. He's the exception, not the rule. If you'd like to dig up other posters who said it then go ahead.

 

[nuck]

Would that mean 8 points in just under the equivalent of 10 even strength only games?

Do you want to use another argument because it seems to me that would put him on a pace for a 25 goal and a 67 point season without any PP time. (or a PPG game winger)

That would have been good enough for placing in the top 10 for all centres during the last full season.

Seems pretty good.

Only if he played 60 minutes per game Divide the production by 3. Better yet divide by 4 for third line center minutes with no pp time. You can't justify his presence based on his production. He is there by default because they have no other option. Bolland at his best beside Kane generated similar production but has not been an 80 game player.
I am not sure how anyone can say he has had a negative impact when they have no other choices though.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I see your point, Sort of like when Kessel was -12 and Savard was -19 when Dave Lewis coached the Bruins.

Bad teams have a way of distorting plus minuses.

Look at Chara and Bergeron's minuses that year.

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure Savard wasn't exactly known for his defense.

 

[The Apologist]

Looking at the poll results, I'm actually pleasantly surprised at how non negative it is. Guess I don't give the Nation enough credit sometimes

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure Savard wasn't exactly known for his defense.

Patrice Bergeron the NHL's best defensive Center, was -28. Thats what a bad team will do for stats poolies or for the bar graph analytics cultists for some players. We both know that was an isolated minus as was Bozak's -29.

Both have not been close to that number since.

 

[The Legend]

The Evidence is quite clear, since RC has played Bozak 20 mins per game and more than any other fwd on our team, The Leafs have been a playoff team.

And we all know Winning is the king of all stats.

Where would we be with a better 1c?

 

[egd27]

Only if he played 60 minutes per game Divide the production by 3. Better yet divide by 4 for third line center minutes with no pp time. You can't justify his presence based on his production. He is there by default because they have no other option. Bolland at his best beside Kane generated similar production but has not been an 80 game player.
I am not sure how anyone can say he has had a negative impact when they have no other choices though.

Oops. I knew something didn't seem right. Thanks for the correction.

 

[New Liskeard]

Your reading comprehension skills are atrocious.

Kessel and Lupul are good players. They are going to play well regardless of who they are playing with. However, if they play with other good players, they will themselves likely play better.

Bozak is not a good player. When put on the ice with players like Kessel and Lupul who are way better than he is, his lack of skill is more hidden since he doesn't have to do as much.

I believe (strongly) Kessel would do better playing alongside a more talented C such as Kadri or, yes, Grabovski, than with Kessel. Not only that, the stats agree with me - Kessel's goals-per-game on average has been 0.3 higher (a significant number) when playing with anyone else besides Bozak.

The question you should be asking is how good could Kessel be if playing alongside a competent centre.

My reading skills are just fine. Now if you will only focus on the discusion at hand, and stop deflecting and avoiding, an actual conversation can take place here. So youre suggesting that Kessel, Lupul and JVR, who all had career years, would have put up those points anyway, because they are that good, and Bozak has no talent?

Thats about as ignorant as I have seen here. I guess these other wingers have never played with much more talented centers than Bozak either? The facts are the facts, regardless of how much you want to dismiss them. The top line, and the wingers specifically, have played extremely well with Bozak in the middle. Deal with it. One would think a Leaf fan would be happy with the top line playing so well. I'm sure Kessel would put up more points with a more talanted center; but until then, i'm not going to pine over it and get upset that Bozak is there. Even if the leafs were able to get a high end center, looking at this team this year and last, it does not address the areas of weakness. But there are some here more interested in dangles, and how many points Kessel can score rather than winning a game.

 

[New Liskeard]

Hey I don't like Bozak but it's not like without him we magically become better. I just hate that Carlyle thinks that Bozak and Kessel will magically explode if not kept within 10 feet of one another.

Our team would be better suited to either Kadri or Bolland being number 1/2 center with Bozak playing number 3.[/QUOTE]

Based on what? There is no supporting evidence that is true. You dont like Bozak and would rather anyone else there, yet you dont know how that will work, and you want to eliminate the consistent that has been production on the first line, and the wingers doing extremely well with Bozak in the middle. Its pretty sad that someones dislike towards another player is enough to want them to break up the success the first line and wingers have had, just cause they dont like Bozak. Makes a world of sense.

 

[cynicism]

Bozak is the Leafs what Pascal Dupuis is to the pens. A decent player who lucked out in that he's best buds with the best player on the team and owes his entire career and salary to that fact.

 

[DWILLIAMS24]

Honestly, I read most of the posts in this thread and it really made me dislike fans. I could only imagine what reality some people live in or if anybody actually played hockey on this forum.

Bozak is obviously not the prototypical first line center. At the end of the day he's a great 3rd line C with the ability to fill in on the 2nd line but in no way does he have the skill of a first line C. Everyone can agree with that. However, in the league right now there is a shortage of first line C who are actually legit. At the end of the day when developing a team that is hard to play against Tyler Bozak is valuable. Hopefully as the Leafs continue to develop (Who says Bozak was signed to be the solution at C) they are put in a position to acquire a first line centre (Via draft, current prospects or trade). It still does not suggest that Bozak is a value player to a hockey team. In this new generation of Hockey it's difficult to find guys who are capable of playing solid team defense.

I have seen suggestions of putting Nazem Kadri on the first line but what others do not forget is that Nazem needs responsible linemates to cover up his flaws in the natural zone and defensive end. He currently has the skill but does not possess the necessary qualities needed to be a first line center. While Bozak does not have the skill set he is able to cover defensively for Phil Kessel were as a line of Nazem Kadri and Phil Kessel would struggle defensively against other teams top lines.

I do not understand all the hate for Bozak, yes he is not the flashiest player but he does an adequate job for a position OUR MANAGEMENT did not focus on obtaining during the rebuild. Do not punish Bozak for being promoted due to our management not being aware of what makes a team successful in the NHL.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Honestly, I read most of the posts in this thread and it really made me dislike fans. I could only imagine what reality some people live in or if anybody actually played hockey on this forum.

Bozak is obviously not the prototypical first line center. At the end of the day he's a great 3rd line C with the ability to fill in on the 2nd line but in no way does he have the skill of a first line C. Everyone can agree with that. However, in the league right now there is a shortage of first line C who are actually legit. At the end of the day when developing a team that is hard to play against Tyler Bozak is valuable. Hopefully as the Leafs continue to develop (Who says Bozak was signed to be the solution at C) they are put in a position to acquire a first line centre (Via draft, current prospects or trade). It still does not suggest that Bozak is a value player to a hockey team. In this new generation of Hockey it's difficult to find guys who are capable of playing solid team defense.

I have seen suggestions of putting Nazem Kadri on the first line but what others do not forget is that Nazem needs responsible linemates to cover up his flaws in the natural zone and defensive end. He currently has the skill but does not possess the necessary qualities needed to be a first line center. While Bozak does not have the skill set he is able to cover defensively for Phil Kessel were as a line of Nazem Kadri and Phil Kessel would struggle defensively against other teams top lines.

I do not understand all the hate for Bozak, yes he is not the flashiest player but he does an adequate job for a position OUR MANAGEMENT did not focus on obtaining during the rebuild. Do not punish Bozak for being promoted due to our management not being aware of what makes a team successful in the NHL.

Excellent first post, stick around, need more good posters on this board.

 

[4evaBlue]

Yes, it is a concern. As I said countless times, it just needs one of JvR/Kessel to have an off-game for that line to stop producing. Last game was a classic example.

Just because you said it a countless times, does not make it true. Last game was a perfect example of what happens when you're missing your 3rd line and try to roll 2 lines. The top 6 played defensemen type minues.

With forwards injured/suspended, we need goals and we can't win by scoring 1 goal a game. This is the time when you put Kadri's creativity along with Kessel and Bozak's game honestly is more suited for 3rd line role.

Do you even have the slightest inkling of what losing EVERY SINGLE faceoff would mean for the top line's productivity? Think about it for a bit.

Carlyle would mix and match the lines all the time. Multiple times during the game. But he won't separate Kessel and Bozak, even when neither produces. It is almost laughable for a guy who preaches accountability.

Yes, the top line has been the just awful at production in recent seasons. Definitely time for a change.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Do you even have the slightest inkling of what losing EVERY SINGLE faceoff would mean for the top line's productivity? Think about it for a bit.

Please get out. 49% isn't every single faceoff.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

New Benchmark to make it to 1st line on Leafs: Be good on faceoffs. Offensive hockey skills NOT REQUIRED.

 

[Joey Hoser]

we need goals and we can't win by scoring 1 goal a game. This is the time when you put Kadri's creativity along with Kessel and Bozak's game honestly is more suited for 3rd line role.

We're scoring 3 goals per game, 12th in the league.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Just because you said it a countless times, does not make it true. Last game was a perfect example of what happens when you're missing your 3rd line and try to roll 2 lines. The top 6 played defensemen type minues.



Do you even have the slightest inkling of what losing EVERY SINGLE faceoff would mean for the top line's productivity? Think about it for a bit.



Yes, the top line has been the just awful at production in recent seasons. Definitely time for a change.

He equated Kadri's faceoff % against Mackinnon to be better than Bozak's. Are you surprised at the lack of logic.

 

[dballislife2]

what i dont understand is that people say kadri isnt ready or cant handle the position yet, or bolland isn't a good fit...but when has kadri ever given a long look of even 2-3 games with jvr and kessel to see what we got...even when grabo was here he was never given more then 1 game look on top line, meanwhile bozak has been given 3 years at over 100 games with our best players on the top line and hasn't shown nothing, yet hes still there

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

We're scoring 3 goals per game, 12th in the league.

And what exactly is Bozak doing to sustain that 3 goals per game? And how is he outperforming other C that he deserves the 1st line job. (Please don't give me faceoffs excuse, because Steckel could've done that job better).

 

[The Blue Devil]

Based on what? There is no supporting evidence that is true. You dont like Bozak and would rather anyone else there, yet you dont know how that will work, and you want to eliminate the consistent that has been production on the first line, and the wingers doing extremely well with Bozak in the middle. Its pretty sad that someones dislike towards another player is enough to want them to break up the success the first line and wingers have had, just cause they dont like Bozak. Makes a world of sense.

How can you know if something will work or not if dont even try it? That would be like saying if we got Crosby we shouldn't play him with Kessel because we don't know how that would work out.

 

[achtungbaby]

Honestly, I read most of the posts in this thread and it really made me dislike fans. I could only imagine what reality some people live in or if anybody actually played hockey on this forum.

Bozak is obviously not the prototypical first line center. At the end of the day he's a great 3rd line C with the ability to fill in on the 2nd line but in no way does he have the skill of a first line C. Everyone can agree with that. However, in the league right now there is a shortage of first line C who are actually legit. At the end of the day when developing a team that is hard to play against Tyler Bozak is valuable. Hopefully as the Leafs continue to develop (Who says Bozak was signed to be the solution at C) they are put in a position to acquire a first line centre (Via draft, current prospects or trade). It still does not suggest that Bozak is a value player to a hockey team. In this new generation of Hockey it's difficult to find guys who are capable of playing solid team defense.

I have seen suggestions of putting Nazem Kadri on the first line but what others do not forget is that Nazem needs responsible linemates to cover up his flaws in the natural zone and defensive end. He currently has the skill but does not possess the necessary qualities needed to be a first line center. While Bozak does not have the skill set he is able to cover defensively for Phil Kessel were as a line of Nazem Kadri and Phil Kessel would struggle defensively against other teams top lines.

I do not understand all the hate for Bozak, yes he is not the flashiest player but he does an adequate job for a position OUR MANAGEMENT did not focus on obtaining during the rebuild. Do not punish Bozak for being promoted due to our management not being aware of what makes a team successful in the NHL.

You can believe that Bozak has a negative impact on this team without hating the guy. He does do an adequate job that our management, past and present, haven't been able to fill. That's not his fault. However when we can argue that our number 1 center is merely doing an adequate job then it's not a stretch to argue that we could do better. Hence, one could argue that it's a negative impact or, at very least, there is no impact.

Welcome to the boards.

 

[Patience]

I have no doubt that Tyler Bozak would have had a positive impact on the final 10 minutes of the Leafs' last game of the 2013 playoffs.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I have no doubt that Tyler Bozak would have had a positive impact on the final 10 minutes of the Leafs' last game of the 2013 playoffs.

Like this? If we had Bozak, Kulemin, and Mcclement play the last 10 mins like this. We are probably in round 2. 5:40 of video Bozak wins draw from Bergeron to seal it, then he bends over in pain after the game. We know he was done for the series after that faceoff. Torn tricep muscle.

 

[New Liskeard]

How can you know if something will work or not if dont even try it? That would be like saying if we got Crosby we shouldn't play him with Kessel because we don't know how that would work out.

Can you be a bit more dramatic, or go from one extreme to the next? It is possible Kadri and Bolland would do well in that role; my point being besides so many hating Bozak, why change that up when it has been so effective for so long?

 

[DD03]

Not sure how the best friend of our best player can have a negative effect on the team.