TSN ranks the top 25 NHL players of all time

[Hischier and Hughes]

What now?

I'm as big a pens fan AND Sid fan as anyone but .. no. Just no.

Pound for pound, era adjusted, n all that jazz .. Sid doesn't touch Lemieux. No one does. Not even Gretz. Gretz had this stupid mental ability that put him head and shoulders ab9ve the rest but actual raw talent skill? Mario all the way and, as this site is so fond of saying .. ainec.

I dont care about era adjusted crap, im talking about his pure skill. Players today are trained better, started younger, and have better nutrition and systematic hockey.

Talents today are much better than they ever have been. Its evolutionary

 

[BrockLobster]

Where is bossy and potvin??

 

[Confucius]

Jäger at 23 lmao, just made the list... J-O-K-E

 

[tarheelhockey]

NHL Adjusted scoring per generation, MUCH more accurate.


-Gets rid of most of the overrated old time players prior to 1970 that ran up the stats when they had 6-10 teams in the league.

Era Adjusted best point leaders

Hang on a second.

Think about what you just said.

Take a player from, say, 1965 in the 6-team NHL. He plays his entire schedule against the 100 best players in the world.

Now put him in a time machine to the 12-team NHL of 1970. He plays his entire schedule against the 220 best players in the world.

Under which conditions should this player be expected to “run up the stats”? Against teams composed of the 100 best players, or against teams composed of the 220 best?

If a ranking method eliminates the player who excelled in a smaller (more talent-concentrated) league, that doesn’t speak very highly of the method does it?

 

[PenguinSpeed]

Hang on a second.

Think about what you just said.

Take a player from, say, 1965 in the 6-team NHL. He plays his entire schedule against the 100 best players in the world.

Now put him in a time machine to the 12-team NHL of 1970. He plays his entire schedule against the 220 best players in the world.

Under which conditions should this player be expected to “run up the stats”?

If a ranking method eliminates the player who excelled in a smaller (more talent-concentrated) league, that doesn’t speak very highly of the method does it?

-The player that has Elite offensive players paired up with him, instead of weak offensive players paired up with him. Elite offense always destroys Elite defense. Ive proven that theory so many times on here when players like Lemieux and Gretz lit up defenses with Ray Bourqye and Chris Chelios like Christmas trees on the scoreboard. And Lemieux didnt have Elite firepower until Jagr, then started toying and destroying teams until the cancer and back problems Lemieux had in his career.

 

[tarheelhockey]

-The player that has Elite offensive players paired up with him, instead of weak offensive players paired up with him. Elite offense always destroys Elite defense. Ive proven that theory so many times on here when players like Lemieux and Gretz lit up defenses with Ray Bourqye and Chris Chelios like Christmas trees on the scoreboard. And Lemieux didnt have Elite firepower until Jagr, then started toying and destroying teams until the cancer and back problems Lemieux had in his career.

That didn’t address my post whatsoever.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

That didn’t address my post whatsoever.

-It addresses it perfectly. If all the offensive firepower is on 6 teams instead of 31, the offense is stacked to crush the defense.

-You didnt notice this when Wayne and his sidekicks were scoring and averaging 6 goals per game in the 80's?

 

[tarheelhockey]

-It addresses it perfectly. If all the offensive firepower is on 6 teams instead of 31, the offense is stacked to crush the defense.

-You didnt notice this when Wayne and his sidekicks were scoring and averaging 6 goals per game in the 80's?

Yet scoring went steadily upward as the league added teams from 6 to 21, climaxing in the Gretzky era after WHA teams were added.

If your theory was correct, scoring would have gone down after 1967 rather than going up.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Biggest omission for me by a mile is Bossy. Top-10 easily in my books.

Yes, nine consecutive 50+ goal seasons which include five 60+ goal seasons. 573 goals in 752 games which translates to highest goal per game average ever at .762 goals per game.
Being an Oiler fan, obviously I didn't care for the Islanders back then but have to give this player much, much respect.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

Yet scoring went steadily upward as the league added teams from 6 to 21, climaxing in the Gretzky era after WHA teams were added.

If your theory was correct, scoring would have gone down after 1967 rather than going up.

-Of course my theory holds true. I can run a live poll on this board right now. If we went back to 6 teams or even 12 teams, the lines would be stacked on offense and the talent wouldnt be spread all around. You understand All the best players played for Canada in the old days, right?

What would happen if My team had this for a line 1

Ovechkin Crosby Kucherov

-You know how unstoppable that line would be if I had talent behind it on line 2 and 3 like the Oilers did or the old Hab teams?

-Case in point. Malkin-Crosby-Kessel- Best powerplay in 30 years is right now this season. A stacked line that continues to beat the living crap out of opposing teams by overwhelming talent. Penguin powerplay since the new year started is over 35% score rate. When you have Elite talent playing on the same line, the defense, and the best goalie you want to stick in net whoever he is, is going to get beat up

 

[Lebowski]

Lafleur, Plante, Sawchuk, Patrick Roy, Hasek all still ahead of Sid

Hasek, maybe. His peak was pretty insane.

Roy? How? Just how?

 

[tapi]

I feel the ranking is just straight out ridiculous. Mario should be #2 behind Gretzky, no question. His domination on the ice was second to none, event to #99, and to place somebody like Howe above him is simply emotional stupidity.

 

[DrDangles]

Lmao

If Hasek and Jagr were Canadian they'd be listed in the top 10, no doubt.

 

[maacoshark]

ovi's the only one on that list not to win a cup, which means ovi is the greatest player to not win a cup.

The majority of those played when there were a lot less teams in the league. Better chances of winning a cup in a 6 team league

 

[tarheelhockey]

-Of course my theory holds true. I can run a live poll on this board right now. If we went back to 6 teams or even 12 teams, the lines would be stacked on offense and the talent wouldnt be spread all around. You understand All the best players played for Canada in the old days, right?

What would happen if My team had this for a line 1

Ovechkin Crosby Kucherov

-You know how unstoppable that line would be if I had talent behind it on line 2 and 3 like the Oilers did or the old Hab teams?

-Case in point. Malkin-Crosby-Kessel- Best powerplay in 30 years is right now this season. A stacked line that continues to beat the living crap out of opposing teams by overwhelming talent. Penguin powerplay since the new year started is over 35% score rate. When you have Elite talent playing on the same line, the defense, and the best goalie you want to stick in net whoever he is, is going to get beat up

That’s a neat idea, but it was literally disproven in reality when the league went from 6 to 21 teams and scoring went up steadily each time they added teams.

No need to take a poll, we have a hard factual disproof already.

 

[Lebowski]

That’s a neat idea, but it was literally disproven in reality when the league went from 6 to 21 teams and scoring went up steadily each time they added teams.

No need to take a poll, we have a hard factual disproof already.

I think there's a few things that play into that equation. There's coaching trends that have an impact on the amount of goals scored.

I'm not a big fan of the diluted talent pool argument. Considering the overall growth of the game around the world and even in Canada, I think the size of the league more or less reflects the size of the talent pool.

But sure, generally speaking, if you took the league as it is and shrank it to 6 teams, I don't think you'd see more offense. Best examples would probably be when you look at the best-on-best tournaments like the Olympics when the top dogs go up against each other. I haven't tracked the stats, but I feel like there's less offense.

 

[northeastern]

Eddie Shore with 284 career pts better than Jagr LOL

Points are the only thing that matter right...

This is the biggest problem on these boards if you ask me. Points only tell part of the story .

 

[HarryLime]

Mario > Howe

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Where is Toews?

Frantically calling Bettman...

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think there's a few things that play into that equation. There's coaching trends that have an impact on the amount of goals scored.

I'm not a big fan of the diluted talent pool argument. Considering the overall growth of the game around the world and even in Canada, I think the size of the league more or less reflects the size of the talent pool.

You think the number of hockey players in the world has grown by 500% in the past 50 years?

I find that exceedingly unlikely, considering Baby Boomers (the largest generation in history in NA and Europe) were in their prime athletic years around that time and hockey was by far the most popular sport in both Canada and Russia and already taking off in Sweden. If the number has even doubled since then, I’d be fairly surprised.

But sure, generally speaking, if you took the league as it is and shrank it to 6 teams, I don't think you'd see more offense. Best examples would probably be when you look at the best-on-best tournaments like the Olympics when the top dogs go up against each other. I haven't tracked the stats, but I feel like there's less offense.

Average game in the Sochi playoff bracket had 4.25 goals compared to 5.44 in the NHL That year.

 

[Lebowski]

You think the number of hockey players in the world has grown by 500% in the past 50 years?

I find that exceedingly unlikely, considering Baby Boomers (the largest generation in history in NA and Europe) were in their prime athletic years around that time and hockey was by far the most popular sport in both Canada and Russia and already taking off in Sweden. If the number has even doubled since then, I’d be fairly surprised.



Average game in the Sochi playoff bracket had 4.25 goals compared to 5.44 in the NHL That year.

Probably. Considering most euros weren't crossing over, that the US were barely in the picture, and that the league was 95% Canadian, I'd say it's possible.

As for hockey being popular among baby boomers, how many of them played professionally or where groomed the way young talents are today? The infrastructure wasn't the same then.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

That’s a neat idea, but it was literally disproven in reality when the league went from 6 to 21 teams and scoring went up steadily each time they added teams.

No need to take a poll, we have a hard factual disproof already.

-Scoring went up each time they added teams?

-1967 was the first addition. The league averaged 2.98 goals per game, and 3.04 the year prior. The league today the scoring has been over 3 goals per game 1 time since 1996, 22 years.

-In 1979 dilution started. 4 teams from the WHA were added to the NHL, the same year the Great One entered the NHL. Do you know how bad some of these new teams were? They didnt just cherry pick players like Vegas did. The Jets were -154 in goal differential, NEGATIVE 154 in goals against. The Whalers were -87, Devils -86, Wings -87, Nordiques -75. You call this competitive with parity? The talent was already secured by the Elite teams. Every team in the entire Smyth division had negative goal differential. You dont think the Oilers and Montrael having a stacked team killing these new teams had anything to do with it when they didnt have a prayer to survive? Its funny because they all relocated in due time.


-Hey, lets put the Pittsburgh Penguins with Lemieux and Jagr, Recchi, Stevens, Trottier, Paul Coffey and put them up against college teams and see how the stats go.

-Almost all the players in the league in the old days were from Canada. That number dropped to 75% in the 80's, and is now 50% in todays NHL.

-Dont make blind statements. The new teams that entered the league all got annihilated outside of the Oilers.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Hang on a second.

Think about what you just said.

Take a player from, say, 1965 in the 6-team NHL. He plays his entire schedule against the 100 best players in the world.

Now put him in a time machine to the 12-team NHL of 1970. He plays his entire schedule against the 220 best players in the world.

Under which conditions should this player be expected to “run up the stats”? Against teams composed of the 100 best players, or against teams composed of the 220 best?

If a ranking method eliminates the player who excelled in a smaller (more talent-concentrated) league, that doesn’t speak very highly of the method does it?

Player X would have better teammates in the smaller league, why is this glossed over?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Average game in the Sochi playoff bracket had 4.25 goals compared to 5.44 in the NHL That year.

I'm sure the larger ice had nothing to do with that. 2010 Olympics had 6.0 gpg by the way- wonder why you didn't mention that though.

Presenting this as some sort of evidence is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Lebowski]

I'm sure the larger ice had nothing to do with that. 2010 Olympics had 6.0 gpg by the way- wonder why you didn't mention that though.

Presenting this as some sort of evidence is intellectually dishonest.

6 gpg in the playoff bracket?