TSN ranks the top 25 NHL players of all time

[daver]

In all fairness, he did finish third in scoring to them at least once so without Mario and Wayne he would have had at least one Art Ross trophy. Quite possibly a Hart too considering the voters for that award always seem to give it to huge offensive seasons over anything else and everyone else behind him were either Mario or Gretzky's linemates.

A couple of interesting random facts about Yzerman

- Yzerman scored at point per game pace for 12 of his first 14 years in the NHL - the two seasons he did not were hampered by injuries.
- In 88/89 Yzerman finished 3rd in points behind Mario and Gretzky. The only other players in the top 10 who didn't play for LA (with Gretzky), Pittsburgh (with Mario) or Edmonton were Joe Mullen and Dale Hawerchuk, both over 40 points behind Yzerman.

Yzerman was an elite talent in the 80's and early 90's, nobody can deny that. He was quite possibly the third best forward of that era.

For sure he gets one Art Ross and it would have been one of the best non-Mario/Wayne Art Ross wins ever. But he is lacking other multiple top finishes besides that one. He for sure was the clear 3rd best offensive player from 87 to 94. When you are up against multiple Art Ross/Hart winners from the whole 100 years plus d-men and goalies there just is not a spot for him. He likely fits into the #26 - 40 range.

 

[ManofSteel55]

For sure he gets one Art Ross and it would have been one of the best non-Mario/Wayne Art Ross wins ever. But he is lacking other top finishes besides that one. When you are up against multiple Art Ross/Hart winners from the whole 100 years plus d-men and goalies there just is not a spot for him. He likely fits into the #26 - 40 range.

I have no issue with someone ranking him outside the top 25. But I also have no issue with him being ranked in the 20 - 25 range.

 

[Syrinx]

I think I'd flip Jagr and Ovechkin. Other than that I don't have a huge issue with anything. Usually I do. Malkin has to be knocking on the door of this list.

 

[Syrinx]

Jagr is one of my favorite players all time. He is one of the two jerseys I own. I don't think he is top-10 all time. Those should be players that could carry their teams to the cup. Jagr never did that.

 

[Zalos]

Lemieux is not behind Gretzky... so, no, he is not behind Howe either. That is ridiculous. Crosby is way too high. Richard and some others too. This list is wonky, but then, it's just a list.

 

[Trap Jesus]

It's a bit of an odd list. I'd say the main issue would be it's biased in favor of older players but the Crosby/Ovechkin placements do a lot to offset that. Hasek as the 5th ranked goalie is absurd, and Bourque and Lidstrom should be more in line with Harvey IMO.

 

[authentic]

Jagr is one of my favorite players all time. He is one of the two jerseys I own. I don't think he is top-10 all time. Those should be players that could carry their teams to the cup. Jagr never did that.

Not really his fault though, hockey is a team sport and he delivered in the playoffs. He's 2nd all time in points with 5 Art Ross trophies, the fact he's not top 10 let alone top 20 is a bit of a joke to me.

 

[daver]

Not really his fault though, hockey is a team sport and he delivered in the playoffs. He's 2nd all time in points with 5 Art Ross trophies, the fact he's not top 10 let alone top 20 is a bit of a joke to me.

Who in the Top Ten doesn't have a Conn Smythe worthy run (s) on their resume? That's the difference between Jagr being in the Top Ten or outside it.

 

[authentic]

Who in the Top Ten doesn't have a Conn Smythe worthy run (s) on their resume? That's the difference between Jagr being in the Top Ten or outside it.

Yeah, in this list it is. My point was that it shouldn't be like that. We are smart enough today to know that individuals do not single handedly carry teams and never have. Gretzky did not win a Cup after leaving Edmonton, and Justin Williams has a Conn Smythe. Jagr was consistently great in the playoffs, he actually led the playoffs in points per game for a decade span.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Lemieux is not behind Gretzky... so, no, he is not behind Howe either. That is ridiculous. Crosby is way too high. Richard and some others too. This list is wonky, but then, it's just a list.

Mario is absolutely where he should be on this list. And yes, suggesting he is not behind Gretzky is ridiculous.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Yeah, in this list it is. My point was that it shouldn't be like that. We are smart enough today to know that single players do not single handedly carry teams and never have. Gretzky did not win a Cup after leaving Edmonton, and Justin Williams has a Conn Smythe. Jagr was consistently great in the playoffs, he actually led the playoffs in points per game for a decade span.

Being the best in the playoffs is certainly a reasonable qualifier to be discussed when talking about which players are the best of all time. Jagr has been great, but people tend to ignore his rather significant flaws when talking about him, unlike many of his contemporaries.

 

[daver]

Yeah, in this list it is. My point was that it shouldn't be like that. We are smart enough today to know that individuals do not single handedly carry teams and never have. Gretzky did not win a Cup after leaving Edmonton, and Justin Williams has a Conn Smythe. Jagr was consistently great in the playoffs, he actually led the playoffs in points per game for a decade span.

I agree that individuals do not single handedly carry teams but they did contribute significantly to Cups wins with a high scoring total, something Jagr never did. It's not faulting Jagr but rather recognizing those who took advantage of the opportunities presented to them. We can't just assume that Jagr would have done the same.

 

[PB37]

These all time list are stupid and pointless. NHL is 100 years old league. There is no way anyone here or elsewhere knows all the players in its 100 year history. There are so many variables. So much information for human brain to process and that is why it is impossible to do objective analysis. I bet in this forum there is not a single person who has seen all the all time greats play (if you don't count some highlight clips). Also people here should not get mad about these lists. These are highly subjective.

Only way to even think about doing these lists is to look only at numbers and then take account million variables between eras.

I think the best way to determine how good a player was is to compare them to their peers of that time.

For instance, Eddie Shore played 14 years, was voted top 5 for the Hart Trophy a staggering 8 times, finishing 1st 4 times. This was a man who was called The Meaninst Hockey Player Alive and very disliked by both players and media alike. On top of that, he averaged .52 PPG as a defenseman in one of if not the lowest scoring eras in NHL history. That's dominance and that's why Eddie Shore's name gets a lot of love in these lists; he completely dominated the league, was one of the first recognizable superstars, and was a trend setter with the way he could provide offense from the defenseman position.

 

[Eisen]

Hasek and Jagr are way too low. Lemieux should be at least top 3... he's way better than Howe even if you don't look at the PPG differentials...

Lemieux came back from cancer and **** and still dominated the league.


Howe is so overrated, no offense.

Lemieux is a lot closer to 5 than to 3. He lacks the longevity to catch Howe (who had a similar, if not better, peak and better two way play) or the peak of Orr. We don't need to talk about Gretzky who had the peak and longevity.

 

[Eisen]

Jagr would absolutely destroy half of those players in a hockeygame even if he doesnt have a stick. Holy **** what a terrible listing, also Hasek is GOAT goalie without any question and he has plenty of goalies before him. This has Don Cherry written all over it

Of course there is debate. I agree with you but a very solid case can be made for Roy.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Jagr is one of my favorite players all time. He is one of the two jerseys I own. I don't think he is top-10 all time. Those should be players that could carry their teams to the cup. Jagr never did that.

No player, not even Gretzky, has ever carried a team to a cup, it takes the whole team pulling their weight. When Jagr was at his peak he was doing his job in the playoffs, well above PPG. The team around him was shit though, that's not his fault. That being said, I also don't think he belongs in the top 10, but he should absolutely be in the top 20. He should be ahead of Sawchuk, Hall and Esposito and also Crosby and Ovechkin (for the moment).

 

[Rebels57]

Howie Morenz is too high.

 

[Eisen]

No Brett Hull? 4th most goals all time and 2nd most goals in a single season?

He had a 4 year peak only with only two very dominant seasons.

 

[Eisen]

Howie Morenz is too high.

Voted best hockey player for the first half of the last century. He deserves his spot.

 

[MasterDecoy]

Odd how Jagr is so low, Ovechkin should not be ahead of him. Also heavy bias towards Montreal players.

Yeah, tsn is notorious for its bias for Montreal

 

[RandV]

And it is also important how you look at things. For example if we compare players only in athletic ability, puck skills etc. the list should have more players from today's era and there should not propably be a single player from say like 1920-1970. But if we rate players based on how they did against their peers then it is a different analysis.

Yeah it's a really tough topic that you're never going to be able to get perfect or please everyone. Even with the 'against their peers' method, while fair to adjust for improved athletecism science and equipment, it still has it's own imbalance in that it favours players from era's with fewer players as it's much easier to stand out against your peers when you have fewer peers.

This has to be adjusted for talent density, but if everything is equal then if you have a 6 team league/era drawing from say a million player population base and a 30 team league drawing from a 5 million player population base, from a purely technical perspective for every 1 player from the first league/era you should have 6 equal players from the latter. But with these types of lists it seems the opposite usually happens, the larger the league the fewer 'legends' there are.

 

[TheAngryHank]

So if Crosby retires today he is 8th all time?
Ok lol

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Jagr is overrated.. He was a great talent but also a bit of a clown..it is surprising to see his image so positive now.

I don't know if I would have Ovechkin higher but Jagr should no way be above Messier or in the top 10, get real

 

[Acoustic]

I can't figure out what the logic is for Jagr not being top 10 of all time.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

I'm just glad they got the top-4 right (with Gretzky/Orr and Lemieux/Howe being coinflips for 1-2 and 3-4, respectively).