Player Discussion Tryamkin

[Hit the post]

Watching the likes of Sbisa, Del Zotto, Pouliot, etc. might have had an effect on my ability to recognize decent bottom pairing defensemen. Those guys were so terrible.

Proving that management aren’t complete idiots but Luke Schenn looked good in that role for a short period of time here. At least he looked like a Norris trophy candidate compared to those stiffs.

 

[VanJack]

I have a theory about the Canucks signing of UFA d-men. Seems to me that signing d-men out of the Eastern Conference always seems to blow up in their face.

Maybe the checking is tighter in the Eastern Conference, and d-men lacking mobility can survive in a more structured game. By comparison, the Western Conference usually plays more 'fire wagon' hockey, requiring a higher skill level and faster decision-making. Or maybe it's the travel that gets to them when they move out West.

But when you carefully examine some of the dud d-men the Canucks have picked up in free agency or via trade, a lions share of them played in the East. The most egregious might have been Gudbranson, who looked good at times in Florida but was a man on an island when he came out West.

Mercifully it doesn't look the Canucks will have the cap-space to dip in the UFA market for more d-men in the foreseeable future.

 

[Kryten]

I have a theory about the Canucks signing of UFA d-men. Seems to me that signing d-men out of the Eastern Conference always seems to blow up in their face.

Maybe the checking is tighter in the Eastern Conference, and d-men lacking mobility can survive in a more structured game. By comparison, the Western Conference usually plays more 'fire wagon' hockey, requiring a higher skill level and faster decision-making. Or maybe it's the travel that gets to them when they move out West.

But when you carefully examine some of the dud d-men the Canucks have picked up in free agency or via trade, a lions share of them played in the East. The most egregious might have been Gudbranson, who looked good at times in Florida but was a man on an island when he came out West.

Mercifully it doesn't look the Canucks will have the cap-space to dip in the UFA market for more d-men in the foreseeable future.

I think you have it backwards. The East is the fast and loose approach to defending where as the west is more structured on D. Benning and Co’s problem is targeting shitty defensemen from both conferences

 

[RobertKron]

Yeah, Sbisa was really good.

Oh, I guess they also got Clendening, Wiercoch, and Benn from the west. Has there been anyone else?

Right, Myers.

 

[racerjoe]

Our top four d should be Hughes Tanev, Edler Stetcher. I mean Stetcher will most likely get bumped probably for myers, but I like Edler Stetcher together.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Can Tanev take 2 years at 4.5 per year? bit of a discount please.
Tryamkin 1 year at 2.4 million

Edler Myers
Hughes Tanev
Tryamkin Stecher
Benn
Hopefully Tryamkin establishes himself as a quality number 4 guy and we now have enough depth to roll all three pairings without worry

First post I have seen without Rafferty or Juolevi or both in the top 6.

 

[ChilliBilly]

First post I have seen without Rafferty or Juolevi or both in the top 6.

You commented on

Edler Myers
Hughes Tanev
Tryamkin Stecher
Benn

I think Rathbone might be ready as well. And Woo a decent 6- 7 soon. Fatenberg (sp) had an ok season too. Its interesting .... we need a balance. Myers and Tryamkin have size and some level of toughness. Edler Tanev and Stecher are pretty steady. Hughes (and maybe Rathbone) can provide pretty good offense.

Rafferty seems to be a decent injury call up. Juolevi is still unknown, maybe a total bust or maybe a top 4 (or a top 2 in my dreams) but a long way to go there.

Hoping they can find a way to sign Tryamkin for something like $2.35 M and stay under the cap. If this bloody virus hadn't screwed the world over, I think he would have maybe as much a $1M more.

 

[Bankerguy]

First post I have seen without Rafferty or Juolevi or both in the top 6.

I'd love to see Juolevi or Rafferty earn a spot, but i think they'll be both callups

 

[Bad Goalie]

I'd love to see Juolevi or Rafferty earn a spot, but i think they'll be both callups

Juolevi will have to reinvent himself to be an NHL D-man. He wilts like a daffodil in extreme heat when under pressure and becomes a turnover machine. Likewise at the opponent's blueline. When he has time he makes good passes when pressured it's a turnover and at the offensive blueline that's a breakaway.

He has no idea how to play in his own end away from the puck because it involves picking up a man and defending against him which involves physicality which he has none of.

His claim to fame is blocking shots and the stretch pass when he can look up, gauge the distance, and he has the time without anyone near him to wire it.

That's just not a description of a competent NHL defender.

Rafferty has promise because he can navigate the offensive zone. In his own end, however, he is often the proverbial duck out of water. He turns it over a lot and some of his giveaways are astounding. Can't be an O D-man only and stay in the NHL. He has nowhere near the offensive abilities and puck skills of Hughes who uses them for 200 feet. Rafferty likes to stick handle in the phone booth but it doesn't work when you have a broom in place of a stick if you catch my drift.

On any good team, one would never make it up and the other needs another year of intense one to one instruction on how to play defense. A veteran on-ice partner, who can take him under his wing and demonstrate and instruct in-game would work wonders for the guy.

He has survived up to now with his skating and puck control at lower levels, but there are many reasons not one NHL team found those skills to be at the NHL level while determining his defensive game lacked the elements necessary to be an NHL defender, thus, no draft. He was 24 before Benning offered him his first pro shot. At 25 and still deficient in many of those abilities we see lacking in most 20-yr-olds turning pro, this guy is already pushing the envelope of time for an NHL career.

I wish him well, but I don't think Benning will take the time to get his defensive game up to par in the AHL for another season, but will instead bring him on board now. If playing him now with minimum minutes in guarded situations, exposes these shortcomings and causes him to be too risky for Green the season he needed most to fix his game will pass him by. The offensive play that gained him selection to the AHL's 2nd All-Star team and 1st team selection to the All-Rookie squad will be squandered due to impatience. I fear this same impatience will give the rest of the league the opportunity to confirm they had been right to pass him by and he will end up a highly successful AHL player on 2-way deals much like T.J. Brennan, 8 seasons, AHL All-Star 5-times, perennial AHL top scoring D-man, most goals 4 times, and most points 3 times. He couldn't play defense either. He's 31 now and will either retire or be an available UFA again this year.

 

[Hit the post]

I'd love to see Juolevi or Rafferty earn a spot, but i think they'll be both callups

I've love to see him have a FULL complete season at the AHL level first. That's his biggest obstacle.

 

[Bob Long]

Yeah, Sbisa was really good.

Oh, I guess they also got Clendening, Wiercoch, and Benn from the west. Has there been anyone else?

Right, Myers.

Well, Luca did have that one redeeming stat about puck separation....

One of the reasons I hope they retain Toffoli is so that Jim doesn't have money to throw at Barrie. I don't see that going well.

 

[VanJack]

I see the Hockey News, 'Future Watch 2020" has Juolevi ranked as seventh on the list of 'falling NHL prospects'. As a matter of interest, Lias Andersson of the Rangers heads the list of rapidly descending prospects.

I think it's no better than 50/50 he ever plays for the Canucks, particularly since he was left off the list of 'black aces' eligible for this summer's NHL playoffs.

Canuck fans seem doomed to Oli Juolevi purgatory--which will be defined as being forced to watch Matthew Tkachuk light them up like a pinball machine for the next decade, playing for a division rival.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I see the Hockey News, 'Future Watch 2020" has Juolevi ranked as seventh on the list of 'falling NHL prospects'. As a matter of interest, Lias Andersson of the Rangers heads the list of rapidly descending prospects.

I think it's no better than 50/50 he ever plays for the Canucks, particularly since he was left off the list of 'black aces' eligible for this summer's NHL playoffs.

Canuck fans seem doomed to Oli Juolevi purgatory--which will be defined as being forced to watch Matthew Tkachuk light them up like a pinball machine for the next decade, playing for a division rival.

Utica fans had nothing to do with that article but many have leaned in that direction during his stint here. He has not even shown himself to be a standout in the AHL. A guy who doesn't stand out in the AHL rarely all of a sudden becomes an NHL top 6 defender.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Delete. Already responded.

 

[racerjoe]

Well, Luca did have that one redeeming stat about puck separation....

One of the reasons I hope they retain Toffoli is so that Jim doesn't have money to throw at Barrie. I don't see that going well.

I highly doubt we have cap for that period.

 

[Bob Long]

I highly doubt we have cap for that period.

probably. But if there are two compliance buyouts... duuno. I'd rather see what Nikita can do for less than 1/2 the salary and 1/2 the term than be saddled with a huge deal for Barrie. I do like the offensive side of his game but can Edler make up for Barries defensive faults? I'd be worried.

 

[VanJack]

Aiden Battley of 'Hockey Writers' has just published an article entitled: "CHL stars who became NHL flops'.

Oli Juolevi comes in second on his list, sandwiched between Nail Yakupov in first place; and another familiar name, Erik Gudbranson who comes in a solid third.

His comments on Juolevi: "As a lifelong Canucks fan, this one hurts to write. Although he could still reach his potential, it seems unlikely from recent events. With 42 points in his rookie season with the London Knights, he showed great promise for his age.

But since his time in London, the most games he played in a single season is 45, and he's a combined -20 in two season in the AHL. Juolevi still has potential at 22 years of age, but it is becoming ever more unlikely that he will ever reach his potential."

This is one of a number of articles on Juolevi, and follows a special feature analysis by the Canucks Army with highlights (or low-lites) of his season in Utica.

It's obvious the injuries have derailed his career, but he's well on his way to being one of the Canucks all-time draft busts...a top five pick who might never play an NHL game.

 

[timw33]

Aiden Battley of 'Hockey Writers' has just published an article entitled: "CHL stars who became NHL flops'.

Oli Juolevi comes in second on his list, sandwiched between Nail Yakupov in first place; and another familiar name, Erik Gudbranson who comes in a solid third.

His comments on Juolevi: "As a lifelong Canucks fan, this one hurts to write. Although he could still reach his potential, it seems unlikely from recent events. With 42 points in his rookie season with the London Knights, he showed great promise for his age.

But since his time in London, the most games he played in a single season is 45, and he's a combined -20 in two season in the AHL. Juolevi still has potential at 22 years of age, but it is becoming ever more unlikely that he will ever reach his potential."

This is one of a number of articles on Juolevi, and follows a special feature analysis by the Canucks Army with highlights (or low-lites) of his season in Utica.

It's obvious the injuries have derailed his career, but he's well on his way to being one of the Canucks all-time draft busts...a top five pick who might never play an NHL game.

I see him getting thrown into at least a few NHL games as a PR face-saving move combined with a complete dearth of NHL quality dmen waiting in the wings (and possible loss of Tanev/Stecher/both this offseason)

 

[VanJack]

I see him getting thrown into at least a few NHL games as a PR face-saving move combined with a complete dearth of NHL quality dmen waiting in the wings (and possible loss of Tanev/Stecher/both this offseason)

More likely he gets dealt for some other team's failed prospect...that's the surest PR face-saving move by any GM....switching the goalposts.

 

[Luck 6]

Most people had considered Virtanen a bust last offseason, he then took a step forward in his development with a 21 goals, 40+ point pace. Juolevi was drafted two years later than Virtanen.

My point is we should stop writing players off so early. Defensemen often take more time to develop, and Juolevi missed an entire year to injury, I certainly don’t think we should be writing him off before seeing him play an NHL game. I’m looking forward to seeing him play in some capacity next year, but I don’t expect him to be a regular until the season after. Be more patient before you write him off, there is still progress there.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Most people had considered Virtanen a bust last offseason, he then took a step forward in his development with a 21 goals, 40+ point pace. Juolevi was drafted two years later than Virtanen.

My point is we should stop writing players off so early. Defensemen often take more time to develop, and Juolevi missed an entire year to injury, I certainly don’t think we should be writing him off before seeing him play an NHL game. I’m looking forward to seeing him play in some capacity next year, but I don’t expect him to be a regular until the season after. Be more patient before you write him off, there is still progress there.

People were calling Virtanen as bust relative to his draft position. He's a player who showed he could at least be an NHL player in some capacity at 20 years old. Juolevi is nowhere near that level. He hasn't even had a sniff at the NHL yet, and that's in a system crying out for dmen. The odds are vanishingly small Juolevi ever becomes an NHL player in any capacity at this point.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Most people had considered Virtanen a bust last offseason, he then took a step forward in his development with a 21 goals, 40+ point pace. Juolevi was drafted two years later than Virtanen.

My point is we should stop writing players off so early. Defensemen often take more time to develop, and Juolevi missed an entire year to injury, I certainly don’t think we should be writing him off before seeing him play an NHL game. I’m looking forward to seeing him play in some capacity next year, but I don’t expect him to be a regular until the season after. Be more patient before you write him off, there is still progress there.

Its been a tough go for Juolevi, after a trifecta of serious injuries to his back, hip and knee..I would say that he's at least 2 years behind his development.

 

[VanJack]

Its been a tough go for Juolevi, after a trifecta of serious injuries to his back, hip and knee..I would say that he's at least 2 years behind his development.

And unfortunately his development might still be hampered, depending on what happens in the AHL next season. A shortened season and fewer games seems all but inevitable.

If he can't crack the Canucks lineup next season, which seems likely, I'd loan him to a team in the SHL or KHL. He desperately needs a full season somewhere.

 

[Hodgy]

Its been a tough go for Juolevi, after a trifecta of serious injuries to his back, hip and knee..I would say that he's at least 2 years behind his development.

Just to correct the record here, Juolevi’s struggles predate his injures, so let’s not pretend this pick looked good before Juolevi had his first significant injury.

 

[Luck 6]

People were calling Virtanen as bust relative to his draft position. He's a player who showed he could at least be an NHL player in some capacity at 20 years old. Juolevi is nowhere near that level. He hasn't even had a sniff at the NHL yet, and that's in a system crying out for dmen. The odds are vanishingly small Juolevi ever becomes an NHL player in any capacity at this point.

The first reasonable chance that Juolevi had to make the Canucks was out of 2018 training camp. He looked very out of place there, you could tell he needed some time in the AHL. He was sent down and managed to put up an impressive 13 points in 18 games before coming down with a season ending injury. He was still recovering from that injury last training camp and was sent down in the early part of Canucks camp as the full expectation was for him to play the majority of the season in the AHL. He may have earned a call up, but shockingly, we didn't have that many injuries on our blue line this year.

Just because he hasn't played a game doesn't mean he couldn't play a game, Juolevi had some interesting situational circumstances. It's very possible that he could be a stand out in next training camp, make the team, and all this bust talk is history.