True Believers Roll Call

[Ted Hoffman]

Trades a 1st and scraps for a legit 1st line center with 5 years of control on a good cap hit, but your analysis of DA focuses on a one year deal for a backup goalie who isn't even with the team any more?

My immediate analysis as it applies to this season? I mean, I can go on to pointing out that as recently as 12/31 we were talking about how "a 1st and scraps for a legit 1st center with 5 years of control on a good cap hit" was getting us a top-10 pick in the upcoming draft because our GM didn't address the goalie problem or the coaching issue back in the offseason or the lack of defensive depth that was plaguing us, and how at that point in time there were a pretty decent number of people who had thrown in the towel on DA and said he needed to go. I can also point out that ROR was playing at that high level previously and it wasn't doing squat for us in the playoff chase for 2+ months. But I'm cool if we say that 5 weeks of solid play + a handful of competitors in the West playing like they've got chronic jock itch and don't want to hurt anything has suddenly "proven" he's a brilliant GM again. I'm even cool if we pretend my criticism is only about "a one year deal for a backup goalie who isn't even with the team any more."

After all, DA won yet another trade on paper this past offseason, so ... all is good, right?

Before the season, Armstrong cited wanting a favorable situation for Husso to come up as the reason he went for a veteran back-up with a 1-year contract. Something that would not be a longer commitment and would be easy to move, was the implication. I think we all (and he) would agree that Chad Johnson was not expected to be the best player available. But Armstrong thought the Blues likely had the answer in house, in Husso. Well, turn the calendar and its actually Binnington that earned that opportunity.

Husso also wanted to be in the NHL or the AHL - not going in-between. [His preference was to be in the AHL for another season.] That's fine, I get that. I also get not just handing him the backup spot based on about 30 AHL games. [Hence my "make it a competition" comment.] But Binnington wasn't even cold dogshit to people around here. He was practically nothing. He was all but written off completely, and DA wasn't even willing to give him a sniff of a chance. There was zero reason to sign Johnson on July 1 for that price. It was a pure "get someone in, but not someone so good that they might threaten Allen's spot at #1" move that immediately blocked any chance of someone in the system stepping up and showing "I want to be here, I want that backup spot, I want to contend for something more."

I think the plan all along was to bury Chad Johnson in the minors (unless his play prevented it) and bring up an AHL guy this season. They certainly didn't waste much time pulling the trigger to bring up Binnington and being willing to "risk" losing Johnson to waivers.

If the plan might have been to put Johnson in the minors, why ink him to a contract that guaranteed he'd count against the cap for $800K or so in that instance? Because at $1 million for the year he only counts about $75K on the cap in San Antonio, and that would have given us a little cap flexibility both near-term [while CJ was on the roster] and down the road [if/when CJ got dumped in the minors].

But then again, I wouldn't spend $86 million in actual salary [$2.7 million of that currently sitting in the AHL] and wedge my team up against the cap at the start of the season so I had no flexibility to make moves if/when I thought I needed to in order to make my team better. That's why I think you're giving too much credit here; you don't take a guy who you think you're going to stick in the minors and give him semi-decent coin that sticks you with a "small" but non-negligible cap hit when you're going to be a cap-spending team, because when you're in that situation every dollar counts.

You're describing a scenario where the Blues bring in a 1B guy to compete with Allen, but also stunting the AHL prospects. We'd have another Bishop situation: a guy that is probably ready but nowhere to play. If they'd gone that route, re-signing Hutton for a multi-year deal would have been the way to go. But we'd still have no answers about what the AHL guys could do.

Weird, we came close to being in another Bishop situation by bringing in someone who could have stunted the AHL prospects. Binnington was knocking it out in San Antonio even with the rest of the team sleepwalking through games and you can bet that was getting quiet attention from teams around the league.

If we didn't want to bring back Hutton because that might block the guys in the AHL, fine. I could buy that. But then don't race out and bring in yet another guy even on a 1-year deal that immediately and certainly blocks them when one of them is potentially UFA VI at the end of the season and you've done zip to give the guy an actual chance to show whether he's got an NHL future or not. Binny is making $650K this year; if you're going to find out what one of your guys can do, that's as cheap a lottery ticket as you're going to get. If he didn't step up in training camp, ... hey, he's UFA VI at season's end, no big deal, and you find a backup somewhere for relatively cheap. You really didn't want to get into a situation where the team is straddling the playoff line and neither Allen nor his backup is great but neither one is really terrible, and you're stuck trying to figure out do we throw it to a rookie who we've never really even given him a sniff of a chance, if he saves our ass the rest of the league wants him and he's not RFA so he potentially walks, but if we try him and and he sucks we're out of the playoffs yet again.

For Binnington, what happened was about the ideal scenario given where he started the season; there was not much to lose by throwing him in to see what he could do, because we were already well back of the pack. But it never should have been like that, and even average forward thinking by DA would have given us a couple answers to work with. And who knows, maybe Binnington has a strong camp and seizes the backup spot and then pushes Allen for the #1 spot from there and this team doesn't look like a bunch of zombies night in and night out because they don't trust their goalies. What we do know is that he never got that chance, because DA made damn sure of it once free agency opened.

This recent run isn't some master stroke of brilliance from Doug Armstrong. The last month or so has zip to do with some master grand strategy employed by DA and everything to do with his ass getting saved from massive criticism by Binnington's strong play in net. If Binnington is about .500 in net, no one's touting DA's fantastic work. The same complaints about Steen would still be getting voiced, the same complaints about Pietrangelo would be getting voiced, and so on and so forth - and some of you would be laying that at the feet of the GM and demanding more moves to "fix" things. But, I'm cool if we pretend DA's super genius skills caused all of the last month to happen. Whatever makes everyone happy.

 

[steinerecliner]

My immediate analysis as it applies to this season? I mean, I can go on to pointing out that as recently as 12/31 we were talking about how "a 1st and scraps for a legit 1st center with 5 years of control on a good cap hit" was getting us a top-10 pick in the upcoming draft because our GM didn't address the goalie problem or the coaching issue back in the offseason or the lack of defensive depth that was plaguing us, and how at that point in time there were a pretty decent number of people who had thrown in the towel on DA and said he needed to go. I can also point out that ROR was playing at that high level previously and it wasn't doing squat for us in the playoff chase for 2+ months. But I'm cool if we say that 5 weeks of solid play + a handful of competitors in the West playing like they've got chronic jock itch and don't want to hurt anything has suddenly "proven" he's a brilliant GM again. I'm even cool if we pretend my criticism is only about "a one year deal for a backup goalie who isn't even with the team any more."

After all, DA won yet another trade on paper this past offseason, so ... all is good, right?


Husso also wanted to be in the NHL or the AHL - not going in-between. [His preference was to be in the AHL for another season.] That's fine, I get that. I also get not just handing him the backup spot based on about 30 AHL games. [Hence my "make it a competition" comment.] But Binnington wasn't even cold dog**** to people around here. He was practically nothing. He was all but written off completely, and DA wasn't even willing to give him a sniff of a chance. There was zero reason to sign Johnson on July 1 for that price. It was a pure "get someone in, but not someone so good that they might threaten Allen's spot at #1" move that immediately blocked any chance of someone in the system stepping up and showing "I want to be here, I want that backup spot, I want to contend for something more."


If the plan might have been to put Johnson in the minors, why ink him to a contract that guaranteed he'd count against the cap for $800K or so in that instance? Because at $1 million for the year he only counts about $75K on the cap in San Antonio, and that would have given us a little cap flexibility both near-term [while CJ was on the roster] and down the road [if/when CJ got dumped in the minors].

But then again, I wouldn't spend $86 million in actual salary [$2.7 million of that currently sitting in the AHL] and wedge my team up against the cap at the start of the season so I had no flexibility to make moves if/when I thought I needed to in order to make my team better. That's why I think you're giving too much credit here; you don't take a guy who you think you're going to stick in the minors and give him semi-decent coin that sticks you with a "small" but non-negligible cap hit when you're going to be a cap-spending team, because when you're in that situation every dollar counts.


Weird, we came close to being in another Bishop situation by bringing in someone who could have stunted the AHL prospects. Binnington was knocking it out in San Antonio even with the rest of the team sleepwalking through games and you can bet that was getting quiet attention from teams around the league.

If we didn't want to bring back Hutton because that might block the guys in the AHL, fine. I could buy that. But then don't race out and bring in yet another guy even on a 1-year deal that immediately and certainly blocks them when one of them is potentially UFA VI at the end of the season and you've done zip to give the guy an actual chance to show whether he's got an NHL future or not. Binny is making $650K this year; if you're going to find out what one of your guys can do, that's as cheap a lottery ticket as you're going to get. If he didn't step up in training camp, ... hey, he's UFA VI at season's end, no big deal, and you find a backup somewhere for relatively cheap. You really didn't want to get into a situation where the team is straddling the playoff line and neither Allen nor his backup is great but neither one is really terrible, and you're stuck trying to figure out do we throw it to a rookie who we've never really even given him a sniff of a chance, if he saves our ass the rest of the league wants him and he's not RFA so he potentially walks, but if we try him and and he sucks we're out of the playoffs yet again.

For Binnington, what happened was about the ideal scenario given where he started the season; there was not much to lose by throwing him in to see what he could do, because we were already well back of the pack. But it never should have been like that, and even average forward thinking by DA would have given us a couple answers to work with. And who knows, maybe Binnington has a strong camp and seizes the backup spot and then pushes Allen for the #1 spot from there and this team doesn't look like a bunch of zombies night in and night out because they don't trust their goalies. What we do know is that he never got that chance, because DA made damn sure of it once free agency opened.

This recent run isn't some master stroke of brilliance from Doug Armstrong. The last month or so has zip to do with some master grand strategy employed by DA and everything to do with his ass getting saved from massive criticism by Binnington's strong play in net. If Binnington is about .500 in net, no one's touting DA's fantastic work. The same complaints about Steen would still be getting voiced, the same complaints about Pietrangelo would be getting voiced, and so on and so forth - and some of you would be laying that at the feet of the GM and demanding more moves to "fix" things. But, I'm cool if we pretend DA's super genius skills caused all of the last month to happen. Whatever makes everyone happy.

I don't see Allen as the #1 going forward because for 3 seasons now he yet shown he can be, DA biggest mistake was giving Allen that contract without proven that he is a starter. I mean starting half a season over Elliot doesn't say sign him and Elliot had a year left for cheap. While great we traded Elliot for a draft pick that ended up being Kryou, that doesn't give us a proven starter. This run we had is the team overall has been playing way better with Binnigton. What I seeing that Allen has been the problem because there been what I see a lack of confident in Allen and because of that the team lack it overall. It sucks that at a pro level confidence is a thing but I think the Blues just have a better chemistry together with Binnigton at the net over Allen.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

My immediate analysis as it applies to this season? I mean, I can go on to pointing out that as recently as 12/31 we were talking about how "a 1st and scraps for a legit 1st center with 5 years of control on a good cap hit" was getting us a top-10 pick in the upcoming draft because our GM didn't address the goalie problem or the coaching issue back in the offseason or the lack of defensive depth that was plaguing us, and how at that point in time there were a pretty decent number of people who had thrown in the towel on DA and said he needed to go. I can also point out that ROR was playing at that high level previously and it wasn't doing squat for us in the playoff chase for 2+ months. But I'm cool if we say that 5 weeks of solid play + a handful of competitors in the West playing like they've got chronic jock itch and don't want to hurt anything has suddenly "proven" he's a brilliant GM again. I'm even cool if we pretend my criticism is only about "a one year deal for a backup goalie who isn't even with the team any more."

After all, DA won yet another trade on paper this past offseason, so ... all is good, right?


Husso also wanted to be in the NHL or the AHL - not going in-between. [His preference was to be in the AHL for another season.] That's fine, I get that. I also get not just handing him the backup spot based on about 30 AHL games. [Hence my "make it a competition" comment.] But Binnington wasn't even cold dog**** to people around here. He was practically nothing. He was all but written off completely, and DA wasn't even willing to give him a sniff of a chance. There was zero reason to sign Johnson on July 1 for that price. It was a pure "get someone in, but not someone so good that they might threaten Allen's spot at #1" move that immediately blocked any chance of someone in the system stepping up and showing "I want to be here, I want that backup spot, I want to contend for something more."


If the plan might have been to put Johnson in the minors, why ink him to a contract that guaranteed he'd count against the cap for $800K or so in that instance? Because at $1 million for the year he only counts about $75K on the cap in San Antonio, and that would have given us a little cap flexibility both near-term [while CJ was on the roster] and down the road [if/when CJ got dumped in the minors].

But then again, I wouldn't spend $86 million in actual salary [$2.7 million of that currently sitting in the AHL] and wedge my team up against the cap at the start of the season so I had no flexibility to make moves if/when I thought I needed to in order to make my team better. That's why I think you're giving too much credit here; you don't take a guy who you think you're going to stick in the minors and give him semi-decent coin that sticks you with a "small" but non-negligible cap hit when you're going to be a cap-spending team, because when you're in that situation every dollar counts.


Weird, we came close to being in another Bishop situation by bringing in someone who could have stunted the AHL prospects. Binnington was knocking it out in San Antonio even with the rest of the team sleepwalking through games and you can bet that was getting quiet attention from teams around the league.

If we didn't want to bring back Hutton because that might block the guys in the AHL, fine. I could buy that. But then don't race out and bring in yet another guy even on a 1-year deal that immediately and certainly blocks them when one of them is potentially UFA VI at the end of the season and you've done zip to give the guy an actual chance to show whether he's got an NHL future or not. Binny is making $650K this year; if you're going to find out what one of your guys can do, that's as cheap a lottery ticket as you're going to get. If he didn't step up in training camp, ... hey, he's UFA VI at season's end, no big deal, and you find a backup somewhere for relatively cheap. You really didn't want to get into a situation where the team is straddling the playoff line and neither Allen nor his backup is great but neither one is really terrible, and you're stuck trying to figure out do we throw it to a rookie who we've never really even given him a sniff of a chance, if he saves our ass the rest of the league wants him and he's not RFA so he potentially walks, but if we try him and and he sucks we're out of the playoffs yet again.

For Binnington, what happened was about the ideal scenario given where he started the season; there was not much to lose by throwing him in to see what he could do, because we were already well back of the pack. But it never should have been like that, and even average forward thinking by DA would have given us a couple answers to work with. And who knows, maybe Binnington has a strong camp and seizes the backup spot and then pushes Allen for the #1 spot from there and this team doesn't look like a bunch of zombies night in and night out because they don't trust their goalies. What we do know is that he never got that chance, because DA made damn sure of it once free agency opened.

This recent run isn't some master stroke of brilliance from Doug Armstrong. The last month or so has zip to do with some master grand strategy employed by DA and everything to do with his ass getting saved from massive criticism by Binnington's strong play in net. If Binnington is about .500 in net, no one's touting DA's fantastic work. The same complaints about Steen would still be getting voiced, the same complaints about Pietrangelo would be getting voiced, and so on and so forth - and some of you would be laying that at the feet of the GM and demanding more moves to "fix" things. But, I'm cool if we pretend DA's super genius skills caused all of the last month to happen. Whatever makes everyone happy.

Is there someone somewhere who is saying this is a stroke of brilliance by Armstrong?

I think you also don’t give the rest of the team and Berube enough credit for the turn-around. Why can’t we just enjoy it instead of having to file it on one side of the ledger or the other in the case against Armstrong?

You have many valid criticisms of Armstrong, including his broader handling of the goalie the past several years. But signing Chad Johnson isn’t one of them. He was self-evidently not blocking anyone in the AHL since the team released him without hesitation. His contract was also self-evidently not a big deal as the Blues are not paying for any of it. What part of how things have gone is harmful to Binnington or Husso (if it had been Husso)?

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Wear your protective gear tonight. Nurse or not, we don’t need to lose an HF board contributor to a lower body injury.

 

[StLHokie]

Choo Choo mfers

CHOO CHOO

 

[Robb_K]

Who would believe that The Blues would get all 6 points in 3 games against The Bolts and Preds? And win 6 in a row? They need to keep winning, and distence themselves from their pursuers, and lock up a playoff spot above the Wild Card positions.

 

[Default]

Who would believe that The Blues would get all 6 points in 3 games against The Bolts and Preds? And win 6 in a row? They need to keep winning, and distence themselves from their pursuers, and lock up a playoff spot above the Wild Card positions.

Remember when we could barely string 2 or 3 wins together.... lol

 

[ScratchCatFever]

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I think the Blues will win the division. The players have openly talked about it as a goal. Games when they should have an off night, they are bringing it. I love the Berube Intensity.

If you actually look at the schedules for Winnipeg, Nashville and then St Louis, the Blues have a much more manageable quality of competition.

If they were to seriously make a deep run, it would help to play an opponent they could beat in 5 games or something in the first round. Maybe not likely against anyone, but the chances are a little better against the WC. But mostly I just want to watch the Preds and Jets fans squirm.

 

[Stealth JD]

To make the playoffs they need to play the rest of the year at a record that would have us top 5 in the league. It's just not happening.

Why play top-5, when you can play top-1?

I still believe despite what this picture might say otherwise.

View attachment 171199

Jesus, look at that thing, and now realize that we're FOUR points behind Winnipeg and FIVE points behind Nashville (with 3 games in hand). Holy crap what a 180 this team has made.

 

[BlueDream]

I think the Blues will win the division. The players have openly talked about it as a goal. Games when they should have an off night, they are bringing it. I love the Berube Intensity.

If you actually look at the schedules for Winnipeg, Nashville and then St Louis, the Blues have a much more manageable quality of competition.

If they were to seriously make a deep run, it would help to play an opponent they could beat in 5 games or something in the first round. Maybe not likely against anyone, but the chances are a little better against the WC. But mostly I just want to watch the Preds and Jets fans squirm.

Yeah, I'm really hoping for the division title now. No disrespect to Dallas, Minnesota or Colorado (or Arizona) but I'll definitely take my chances with any of them.

I would then be rooting for Nashville to take out Winnipeg in round 1 so we can face them in the 2nd.

That to me is now the ideal path.

 

[Brian39]

"Do I look nervous?"

 

[Brian39]

Yeah, I'm really hoping for the division title now. No disrespect to Dallas, Minnesota or Colorado (or Arizona) but I'll definitely take my chances with any of them.

I would then be rooting for Nashville to take out Winnipeg in round 1 so we can face them in the 2nd.

That to me is now the ideal path.

Selfishly, I'd love to play Colorado in round 1 so I can go to a couple playoff games in enemy territory.

However, the Blues fan in me would prefer to avoid Colorado if the options are Colorado or any other potential WC team. They are pretty deeply flawed, but they are scary when they hit a hot streak. Varly is the kind of goalie that can get hot for a week and be borderline unbeatable. He is also the kind of goalie that can allow almost every shot he faces and single-handedly lose a game. I'd rather face a consistently adequate team in a 7 game series instead of a team that is either lights out or atrocious.

 

[HighNote]

Yeah, I'm really hoping for the division title now. No disrespect to Dallas, Minnesota or Colorado (or Arizona) but I'll definitely take my chances with any of them.

I would then be rooting for Nashville to take out Winnipeg in round 1 so we can face them in the 2nd.

That to me is now the ideal path.

I'm torn on whether I'd want to face the Jets or Preds. On one hand, the Jets are fast and have a lethal offense with some big name forwards, but they aren't as deep as the Preds, especially on defense. The Preds don't have a more than 1 or 2 forwards that really scare me (like a Tarasenko would), but there defense is built for the playoffs, and Rinne has been pretty solid this year, a notch better than Hellebuyck. Although, Rinne was pretty bad in last year's playoffs. We are 4-1 against the Preds this year, and only 1-3 against the Jets, yet all 4 of those Jets games were played in the first half of the year when we were hot garbage, including the game where we got scored on 8 times, 5 from Laine. There are pros and cons to both, I just can't decide.

My gut says I'd rather face the Jets, but we've played so poorly against them, and so good against the Preds...

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Selfishly, I'd love to play Colorado in round 1 so I can go to a couple playoff games in enemy territory.

However, the Blues fan in me would prefer to avoid Colorado if the options are Colorado or any other potential WC team. They are pretty deeply flawed, but they are scary when they hit a hot streak. Varly is the kind of goalie that can get hot for a week and be borderline unbeatable. He is also the kind of goalie that can allow almost every shot he faces and single-handedly lose a game. I'd rather face a consistently adequate team in a 7 game series instead of a team that is either lights out or atrocious.

I have the same hope about Dallas, I could go to those games.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I'm torn on whether I'd want to face the Jets or Preds. On one hand, the Jets are fast and have a lethal offense with some big name forwards, but they aren't as deep as the Preds, especially on defense. The Preds don't have a more than 1 or 2 forwards that really scare me (like a Tarasenko would), but there defense is built for the playoffs, and Rinne has been pretty solid this year, a notch better than Hellebuyck. Although, Rinne was pretty bad in last year's playoffs. We are 4-1 against the Preds this year, and only 1-3 against the Jets, yet all 4 of those Jets games were played in the first half of the year when we were hot garbage, including the game where we got scored on 8 times, 5 from Laine. There are pros and cons to both, I just can't decide.

My gut says I'd rather face the Jets, but we've played so poorly against them, and so good against the Preds...

I'd rather they have to play each other, but I think Nashville is the better match-up for St Louis. The Blues players aren't intimidated by Nashville whatsoever, and it was evident last night that the Preds don't have a good answer for the Blues right now. I'd really like the Blues' chances in that series.

 

[BlueDream]

I have the same hope about Dallas, I could go to those games.

Haha, and that's why I'm kinda excited that the Coyotes are on a winning streak and creeping up on a WC spot. I could attend those games.

We'll see if one of us gets lucky!

In terms of a style standpoint, here's how I'd rank them if we were to win the division (most appealing to least appealing):

1. Coyotes
2. Stars
3. Wild
4. Avalanche (for the reasons Brian mentioned... plus it seems like every game we play in Denver is a real nail biter that comes down to the wire)

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Haha, and that's why I'm kinda excited that the Coyotes are on a winning streak and creeping up on a WC spot. I could attend those games.

We'll see if one of us gets lucky!

In terms of a style standpoint, here's how I'd rank them if we were to win the division (most appealing to least appealing):

1. Coyotes
2. Stars
3. Wild
4. Avalanche (for the reasons Brian mentioned... plus it seems like every game we play in Denver is a real nail biter that comes down to the wire)

I think the Wildcards will be Arizona and Colorado. Dallas first team out, and Minnesota will plummet.

 

[hockey20000]

To make the playoffs they need to play the rest of the year at a record that would have us top 5 in the league. It's just not happening.

This comment didn't age weII

 

[WeWentBlues]

This comment didn't age weII

Alot of this thread aged poorly

 

[hockey20000]

Alot of this thread aged poorly

I see haha

 

[fishsandwichpatrol]

I'd rather they have to play each other, but I think Nashville is the better match-up for St Louis. The Blues players aren't intimidated by Nashville whatsoever, and it was evident last night that the Preds don't have a good answer for the Blues right now. I'd really like the Blues' chances in that series.

Would love to sweep them in the first round

 

[Brian39]

I'm torn on whether I'd want to face the Jets or Preds. On one hand, the Jets are fast and have a lethal offense with some big name forwards, but they aren't as deep as the Preds, especially on defense. The Preds don't have a more than 1 or 2 forwards that really scare me (like a Tarasenko would), but there defense is built for the playoffs, and Rinne has been pretty solid this year, a notch better than Hellebuyck. Although, Rinne was pretty bad in last year's playoffs. We are 4-1 against the Preds this year, and only 1-3 against the Jets, yet all 4 of those Jets games were played in the first half of the year when we were hot garbage, including the game where we got scored on 8 times, 5 from Laine. There are pros and cons to both, I just can't decide.

My gut says I'd rather face the Jets, but we've played so poorly against them, and so good against the Preds...

I will be pretty surprised if Nashville wins the division. I think we are probably playing Nashville in a 2/3 battle or winning the division and playing a the top Wild Card team. I just don't see Nashville holding off us and the Jets since they have 3 fewer games left to play than both.

 

[converseman54]

I'm hoping we see a Andrew Hammond run from Jordan Binnington. Hammond won, what, 20 of 24 games?

That's the time of magic and confidence that could get this team to the playoffs.

Don't know if this post has been bumped but this prediction pretty much came true. Well done.

 

[mk80]

There's not really a team that scares me for the Blues to play, I think the only opponents that come close are Tampa but even so we shut them out recently and showed we can play with them, and obviously if we meet them in the playoffs things have gone extremely well to that point.