Confirmed with Link: Trouba Requests Trade

[njx9]

KH already proved he can. Many teams with clever GMs move cap space at will. Clearing cap space isn't an issue. The true issue is who do the Wings have to trade if Larkin is untouchable? Answer is nobody. Wings don't have Taylor Halls on hand to trade foolishly.

He moved Datsyuk's cap hit at the draft; I have serious doubts he has any ability to move significant cap at a point when most teams have spent to the point they want to spend to (or have outstanding RFAs of their own).

That said, I agree that we have no one Winnipeg would want, in any way. The only justification for some of these offers appears to be "well, we don't want these guys, and the Jets have to take someone", which is absurd on its face. The team was mismanaged in so many different ways to make us not players at this point.

 

[Dotter]

At what point did a potential future top pair d-man become more valuable that a potential future top center?

If one goes after Trouba, he might fetch a pick, a prospect and a player (Not a 1st line player). That might be stretching it too.

He's more of an defensive defensive/all-round defensive with questions marks regarding offense. That shouldn't fetch Larkin or any other 1st line players. Unless it's a team who can give away assets because of having a lot.

And that's why Detroit can't win the bidding war.

 

[PuckDynasty]

Exhibit A as to why you don't spend to the top of your cap space in the offseason. He's a guy with potential and talent and I have no idea what he's worth and if he can turn it around. But the fact we probably can't even get into the game because of Holland's total cap mismanagement is frustrating.

 

[Dotter]

He moved Datsyuk's cap hit at the draft; I have serious doubts he has any ability to move significant cap at a point when most teams have spent to the point they want to spend to (or have outstanding RFAs of their own).

That said, I agree that we have no one Winnipeg would want, in any way. The only justification for some of these offers appears to be "well, we don't want these guys, and the Jets have to take someone", which is absurd on its face. The team was mismanaged in so many different ways to make us not players at this point.

The only reason why Detroit "aren't players at this point" is because they do not have trade-able assets worth the caliber of defense Detroit needs (Trouba). Cap space is a distant 2nd that can be worked around if needed. At this point it is not needed since nobody here wants to trade Larkin for quality defense.

I am the minority that would trade Larkin if it is for a young franchise dman.

 

[Dotter]

Exhibit A as to why you don't spend to the top of your cap space in the offseason. He's a guy with potential and talent and I have no idea what he's worth and if he can turn it around. But the fact we probably can't even get into the game because of Holland's total cap mismanagement is frustrating.

No it's not the "Exhibit A". Wings don't have the players to trade for such a defenseman. No, Pulkennen and Paetsch isn't getting it done. Starts with a top young dman or center. You trading Larkin?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I would go AA+Cholo+1st+2nd

Offer they can't refuse for a kid that this team needs in the worst way.

We're already $4.2 million over the cap, And reportedly Trouba is seeking $6 million per long term. So how do we make cap work on this kind of deal without sending significant cap back to Winnipeg.

 

[Wood Stick]

We're already $4.2 million over the cap, And reportedly Trouba is seeking $6 million per long term. So how do we make cap work on this kind of deal without sending significant cap back to Winnipeg.

I could see Trouba doing a year deal at 4M for Detroit before a long-term deal nexxt year. You still have to trade cap.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Nyquist, DD, Smith, AA and 2 first rounders. I doubt a trade will happen without Larkin being the starting point. Too many other teams out there with better young talent than us to offer.

You're kidding right? That's way to much for Trouba. That's already like $13 million going to Winnipeg just for Nyquist+DD+Smith Doubt Winnipeg has that kind of cap not giving up 3 roster 1 minor and 2 1st rounders for Trouba that's what you give up for OEL or Hedman not Trouba.

 

[PuckDynasty]

No it's not the "Exhibit A". Wings don't have the players to trade for such a defenseman. No, Pulkennen and Paetsch isn't getting it done. Starts with a top young dman or center. You trading Larkin?

You have no idea what it's going to take as far as players go. We've seen head scratcher trades time and again where guys go for far less than expected. But we likely will never find out because of the lack of cap space.

 

[KJoe88]

No it's not the "Exhibit A". Wings don't have the players to trade for such a defenseman. No, Pulkennen and Paetsch isn't getting it done. Starts with a top young dman or center. You trading Larkin?

Trouba won't fetch Larkin.

In fact, it's the opposite

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

who was the last RFA dman traded in the offseason, was that player more highly than trouba, had that player achieved more nhl success then trouba and finally what was the return price?

that AND THAT ALONE is the only reasonable argument for the basis of what the return price likely is(and it slides up or down depending on how you answered questions 2 and 3),

anything else is either being overly dramatic to suit an agenda or overly optimistic

 

[Henkka]

Only possible deal works with Dekeyser. Both would add a needed handness.

DeKeyser - Byfuglien(25min)
Enström - Myers(25min)
Morrissey - low minute RD

Kronwall - Trouba
Ericsson - Green
Smith - Marchenko

 

[odin1981]

I'd offer Nyquist + Smith + 2017 2nd. But hell let me be realistic that doesn't fetch him.

 

[vannzee]

This is where it was a frustrating offseason for me as a Wings fan. Holland spent Illitchs money but I'm not sure that they team is much better off than before. We didn't go from one of the last teams in the playoffs to a contender. It seemed like a great time to begin a rebuild. Open up spots for AA, Sproul, Ouellette, Mantha, ect. Target young elite level talent like Trouba but as it stands now after contracts to Helm, Nielson, ect. We wouldn't have the cap space even if compensation was agreed upon.

That being said, I'd offer...

Nyquist
Smith
2017 first
And a prospect

I like Trouba and I'm of the opinion that he wants to be in Detroit and close to home.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Jets are not getting this for Trouba.

The Sharks didn't have to give up Thornton, Marleau or Vlasic to get Burns. So I pretty much dismiss anyone who suggests we absolutely must offer up Larkin. We've simply passed on any opportunity to improve our defense.

1. The time to trade Kindl and Hudler was when you could have gotten Bogosian. Again, that makes your defense better than where it is right now.
2. The time to trade Mantha was when you could have gotten Myers. That's looking like it would have been a good trade.
3. Filppula, Ericsson and a prospect for Jay Bouwmeester would have been good value with the stipulation being the prospect not be named Petr Mrazek.

At the time people were like "OH MY GAWD YOU CANNOT TRADE _____!". Every one of of those guys listed above other than Ericsson, Mantha and possibly the prospect are all gone. Who knows how Mantha will pan out?

The truth of the matter is there are teams out there that have much more attractive trade assets than what we could put together. I'd gladly offer up any of the following:

Tatar
Nyquist
Sheahan
DeKeyser
Green
Mantha
Athanasiou
Any of our D prospects

So I'd say to Winnipeg these are the guys we are willing to send over via trade. We're also open to trading a first rounder that is lottery protected and a second rounder. The only guys who are absolutely off limits are Larkin and Mrazek. No one is going to want Z, Kronner, Ericsson, etc. I'd be open to including Abby, Helm and Neilsen but I highly doubt those are reasonable options given they all recently signed new long term deals.

So that would be my approach. Here are our guys, here are the two draft picks and you tell us what it takes to get the deal done. I'd put the odds of it happening at like 5% but at least find out what it would take.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Exhibit A as to why you don't spend to the top of your cap space in the offseason. He's a guy with potential and talent and I have no idea what he's worth and if he can turn it around. But the fact we probably can't even get into the game because of Holland's total cap mismanagement is frustrating.

Same things happened with Dougie Hamilton. We're capped out with a mediocre team and cannot get in on the trade discussion. Lots of people thought we'd never be able to outbid anyone for Hamilton but he went for relatively little. It's amazing how much people defend capping out a mediocre squad as being great management but don't understand how important it is to have the ability to improve your roster should the opportunity arise. This is becoming a regular occurence in the offseason and we can't do much of anything unless we can move back in the draft so another team can add Datsyuk's cap hit to their cap number without paying him a dime. That's something that's highly repeatable!

 

[Claypool]

Exhibit A as to why you don't spend to the top of your cap space in the offseason. He's a guy with potential and talent and I have no idea what he's worth and if he can turn it around. But the fact we probably can't even get into the game because of Holland's total cap mismanagement is frustrating.

Ok, so lets say the Red Wings have over $6 million in cap space for Trouba. Still doesn't guarantee a deal can be worked out. The Red Wings had cap space for Stamkos and he went back to Tampa. If you can't land any of these guys you're now stuck with cap space that you can't use.

Same things happened with Dougie Hamilton.

Boston isn't trading Hamilton to a team within their division, especially not for draft picks. Hamilton was going out West. The deal was made because of the fear of an offer sheet from Edmonton. Plus, many general manager didn't even know Hamilton was even available.

 

[19 for president]

The Wings have assets to trade for a dman, but I don't think they match well with WPG. WPG has a plethora of Wingers, and that is what the Wings have to deal. You could deal DD, which I'm not against, but it really doesn't help this team a ton. Long term maybe a bit, but I don't think Trouba is a clear cut #1.

I think the Wings would need to offer something like Dekeyser, Bert, and a 1st to land him, and I really don't think that helps this team.

I'm still on the Fowler train, or maybe going after one of Philly's young D, but WPG and Detroit aren't good trading partners.

 

[njx9]

The only reason why Detroit "aren't players at this point" is because they do not have trade-able assets worth the caliber of defense Detroit needs (Trouba). Cap space is a distant 2nd that can be worked around if needed. At this point it is not needed since nobody here wants to trade Larkin for quality defense.

I am the minority that would trade Larkin if it is for a young franchise dman.

You can just keep saying that we can work out multiple millions of dollars in cap space, but that doesn't make it even slightly true. The only thing you've offered is that Holland "proved he can", whatever you think that silliness means, not that we actually can or what assets would move and to where.

We don't have the parts to move, beyond Larkin. We don't have the space once we make the move. *shrug* But whatever, if folks really want to get excited, thinking about fixing our defense after another offseason of roster mismanagement that will prevent it, that's cool, too.

 

[Dotter]

Same things happened with Dougie Hamilton. We're capped out with a mediocre team and cannot get in on the trade discussion. Lots of people thought we'd never be able to outbid anyone for Hamilton but he went for relatively little. It's amazing how much people defend capping out a mediocre squad as being great management but don't understand how important it is to have the ability to improve your roster should the opportunity arise. This is becoming a regular occurence in the offseason and we can't do much of anything unless we can move back in the draft so another team can add Datsyuk's cap hit to their cap number without paying him a dime. That's something that's highly repeatable!

Didn't realize Boston was in the league to help their primary division rival. /shrugs

I think Boston wants to make the playoffs, trading Hamilton to Detroit makes that hurdle that much hard to climb. But it's funner to think KH whiffed.

You can just keep saying that we can work out multiple millions of dollars in cap space, but that doesn't make it even slightly true. The only thing you've offered is that Holland "proved he can", whatever you think that silliness means, not that we actually can or what assets would move and to where.

We don't have the parts to move, beyond Larkin. We don't have the space once we make the move. *shrug* But whatever, if folks really want to get excited, thinking about fixing our defense after another offseason of roster mismanagement that will prevent it, that's cool, too.

Unless Detroit's cap is the primary reason why they can't trade for Trouba, then it doesn't even matter having cap space. You;re still not getting the player having nothing to trade. Jurco + Sproul + pick ain't getting it done.

Package together your best parts and pieces and it'll easily get beaten by 10 other teams. Then we can blame the cap because Jets refused trading for the almighty Pulkennen and Oulette package that teams around the league are eager to trade their best players for

 

[PuckDynasty]

Ok, so lets say the Red Wings have over $6 million in cap space for Trouba. Still doesn't guarantee a deal can be worked out. The Red Wings had cap space for Stamkos and he went back to Tampa. If you can't land any of these guys you're now stuck with cap space that you can't use.

Never said it guaranteed anything. Of course it doesn't. But it makes it harder to even get in on the conversation. You really don't think it's easier to make trade when you don't have the added issue of having to clear cap space? Not that any of us in Detroit would know what it's like to have a team that makes trades of roster players.

You don't spend up to the top unless you have to for exactly this reason. Guys can unexpectedly become available. Is there something that says that if you spend all the way up to the top of the cap you will be a better team? It's like going to the store with $100 and spending the whole thing even if you don't need more instead of saving some for later in the month when you may need it or for when an emergency arises.

This is the exact scenario that Detroit needs. Superstars in their prime rarely become available. A young guy who hasn't quite reached his potential and actually might want to play here.


If you are to believe Ken Holland, they never intended to go after Stamkos.

 

[Dotter]

Never said it guaranteed anything. Of course it doesn't. But it makes it harder to even get in on the conversation. You really don't think it's easier to make trade when you don't have the added issue of having to clear cap space? Not that any of us in Detroit would know what it's like to have a team that makes trades of roster players.

You don't spend up to the top unless you have to for exactly this reason. Guys can unexpectedly become available. Is there something that says that if you spend all the way up to the top of the cap you will be a better team? It's like going to the store with $100 and spending the whole thing even if you don't need more instead of saving some for later in the month when you may need it or for when an emergency arises.

This is the exact scenario that Detroit needs. Superstars in their prime rarely become available. A young guy who hasn't quite reached his potential and actually might want to play here.


If you are to believe Ken Holland, they never intended to go after Stamkos.

I think the Taylor Hall trade set the precedent of what it will take to acquire a young dman this season. Just because the young dman publicly asks for a trade, doesn't mean he can force the team holding his rights to trade him to whatever team he wants to go to for whatever scraps and parts they can get just because he says so...

Jets are going to get a nice return for him. The kind of return you would not be willing to part with.

 

[Fear]

Sort of. But, shouldn't trade away a potential franchise center-man.

Difference with Edmonton is, Taylor Hall wasn't a franchise player, and they had assets enough to trade him away.

If Taylor Hall is not a franchise player, then who is? And if thats the case, how does Larkin have franchise potential? It would be extremely fortunate if Larkin becomes as good as Hall.

If you watched Team NA it was clear that Larkin's skillset just isn't on the same level as top pick guys like McDavid, Matthews, Mackinnon, etc.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Didn't realize Boston was in the league to help their primary division rival. /shrugs

I think Boston wants to make the playoffs, trading Hamilton to Detroit makes that hurdle that much hard to climb. But it's funner to think KH whiffed.

The following teams made intra-division trades last year alone:
Anaheim and Edmonton
Rangers and Caps
Buffalo and Ottawa
Detroit traded Jakub Kindl to division winning Florida.
Winnipeg and Chicago
Edmonton and Vancouver
Calgary and Vancouver
Toronto and Ottawa

So yes, other than those 8 intra-division trades in one single season THEY ABSOLUTELY NEVER OCCUR.

 

[njx9]

Unless Detroit's cap is the primary reason why they can't trade for Trouba, then it doesn't even matter having cap space. You;re still not getting the player having nothing to trade. Jurco + Sproul + pick ain't getting it done.

Package together your best parts and pieces and it'll easily get beaten by 10 other teams. Then we can blame the cap because Jets refused trading for the almighty Pulkennen and Oulette package that teams around the league are eager to trade their best players for

Neither exists in a vacuum: we don't have the ammo to make a deal, and we don't have the space, even if Winnipeg had to take an ugly discount. *shrug* The actual talent on this team is really badly overrated and has been for a while.

Ok, so lets say the Red Wings have over $6 million in cap space for Trouba. Still doesn't guarantee a deal can be worked out. The Red Wings had cap space for Stamkos and he went back to Tampa. If you can't land any of these guys you're now stuck with cap space that you can't use.

It means you could actually pursue a deal, instead of sitting on the sidelines, if the Jets have to take a big discount or found themselves suddenly enamored of Tatar. But at least we've got those mediocre vets locked up long term. This way, we'll never have to worry about making any improvements to the team.