Trevor Timmins - The day they made me draft Louis Leblanc....
- Thread starter Whitesnake
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The Russian scout who never gets any picks was also there, wasn't he?
Adam Michaels
Registered User
Well MB said that the scouting staff will be in place heading into the draft, so Churla will continue his work until then. After the draft there will be changes. So Churla could be out afterwards. And they may make changes on some of the regional scouts, as well.
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
I'm not sure of that. I doubt it though, you can't actually see russian prospects play.
Vachon23
Registered User
I would Take Stéphane Pilotte to replace Churla great hockey mind
Eliteprospects.com - Stéphane Pilotte Team Staff Profile
Eliteprospects.com - Stéphane Pilotte Team Staff Profile
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
You're just using the scouting report for the Morozov who played in Pittsburgh a decade ago
Adam Michaels
Registered User
Interesting to see he also served as Assistant General Manager to Joel Bouchard in Blainville-Broisbiand.
The guy's career sure is decorated. He's been a scout since the 90's, a GM and Assistant GM in Junior, as well.
Vachon23
Registered User
and he build 2 championship team with Val d'Or, he one the President cup on time and lost in the final the other one
Sorinth
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2013
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Right after the 2012 draft everybody claimed we had an amazing draft considering how supposed draft steals we got like Collberg, Bozon, Vail. Yet looking back it's probably one of our worst drafts.
It would be interesting to take say the NHL's Central Scouting, and use the highest rated player at every one of our draft picks and see who ended up with the better picks. But that's probably a lot of work and I'm definitely to lazy to do it myself.
First, looking at 03-11 he does have a great record, even if there were some bad years in there at the end.
Second, we can't ignore the fact that most of those guys from 08-11 turned pro under Bergevin's development staff who everyone agrees are terrible. A guy like Leblanc may have been a bad pick who was destined to bust. But right up until Bergevin took over he looked like he would have a decent NHL career. Beaulieu/Tinordi were highly rated prospects, but after turning pro never really developed, so where they bad picks or was it Bergevin's terrible development team? There's no way to know, but given his track record I'd give Timmins the benefit of the doubt.
I'm sure if Timmins disliked a player he wouldn't get picked, but it's never black and white. There are things to like/dislike about every prospect. So maybe he had Buchnevich ranked 60th, and Crisp 70th, but because other scouts really liked Crisp or disliked Buchnevich the final list had Crisp a few spots ahead of Buchnevich. The end result is us drafting a bust, but it doesn't mean Timmins was terrible, even though it's possible it was all on him. But like I said, in my mind he's earned the benefit of the doubt.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
Too late for that. It needed to happen in the gestation period a long time ago.
Vachon23
Registered User
I'm really not a fan of Timmins and I want him to go, but Bozon had a terrible disease but before he was a good goal scorer and Collberg had some talent. I will never blame him for trying home rune like these 2. My problem is guy like Tinordi McCarron Crips De la Rose that didn't had upside
Sorinth
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- Jan 18, 2013
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I was happy with both picks at the time so I'm not blaming him. But it just goes to show that picking the consensus BPA over guys who might be considered reaches also fail quite often. So listing Crisp as an example isn't useful, there are examples that cut both ways. In the end what matters is the overall success. Either he's doing better or worse then the consensus, but we would need actual data not a couple examples.
As for upside, our scouts obviously saw upside even if the players didn't reach it. There were certainly a debate over what their ceiling really was. For example some people thought De la Rose had top-6 potential, he produced very well when playing with his age group, he had a good shot, good passing ability, went hard to the net, forechecked well, had a great combination of size/speed, etc... Others didn't think he was ever going to be more then a bottom-6 player.
A guy like McCarron certainly had a lot to work on, but again he had top-6 potential just like Lucic did, who by the way had 19 points in 62 games in his draft year. Lucic got better and better year over year, McCarron did that intially but since turning pro his development has seemingly stopped.
It's easy to say you should always go with the guys with more obvious upside like Collberg, yet I'm not sure it actually works out with more frequency, and certainly there will always be a size issue because if a guy McCarron's size doesn't have question marks about his offence then he would never be available for us to pick in the first place.
Vachon23
Registered User
ya but Lucic always been a mean guy and he was chose in the end of the 2nd round
Chili
En boca cerrada no entran moscas
- Jun 10, 2004
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I`d be interested in what qualities the Habs value when they are coming up with their draft list.
I`d like to hear the media ask the question, what qualties are you looking for in a player?
In `Lions in Winter', there is a chapter called `Father Frank`s Masterplan'. (Frank Selke, who`s plan was arguably the basis for much of the success the team enjoyed even after he was forced into retirement in 1963).
Selke looked for 3 essentials in players:
-strong hockey background
-deep commitment to winning or aversion to losing (music to Stephane Lebeau`s ears)
-the sense of self confidence, direction and motivation; he wanted players with a team perspective rather then an individual one.
Listening to Stephane Lebeau, I don`t know what they look at now but based on recent results makes you wonder just what do the Habs value when they scout players.
I`d like to hear the media ask the question, what qualties are you looking for in a player?
In `Lions in Winter', there is a chapter called `Father Frank`s Masterplan'. (Frank Selke, who`s plan was arguably the basis for much of the success the team enjoyed even after he was forced into retirement in 1963).
Selke looked for 3 essentials in players:
-strong hockey background
-deep commitment to winning or aversion to losing (music to Stephane Lebeau`s ears)
-the sense of self confidence, direction and motivation; he wanted players with a team perspective rather then an individual one.
Listening to Stephane Lebeau, I don`t know what they look at now but based on recent results makes you wonder just what do the Habs value when they scout players.
It was a different era when those guys were drafted. Remember the year we went to the conference finals with Halak? We were able to beat both offensive powerhouses Pittsburgh and Washington, but then got pushed around by Philly in the Conference finals. They played a mucking game and we couldn't come out of the corner with the puck or win battles in front of the net.
Thank god the game has changed for the better. And as a result, I don't see Timmins going for size without skill anymore.
I'm looking forward to seeing what he'll do.
Although Collberg and Locke were busts, Grabovski, Gallagher, Hudon, Lehkonen, and Andrighetto were not. And Reway was looking good before his illness. I'm interested to see what kinds of players Timmins will choose in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds. We have a whopping 9 picks in those 4 rounds.
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montreal
Go Habs Go
bsl
Registered User
- Oct 9, 2009
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Lots of reasons to support Timmins I guess. First round picks outside of top 9 is not one of them recently. Like for years.and his first round misses are terrible.
His recent 1st round picks out side of the top 9 are McCarron, Scherbak, Juulsen, and Poheling. What's not to like about that???
4 players drafted 25th/26th and while one is a bust (McCarron), Scherbak looks top six, Juuslen looks top 4 dman, and while it's too early to judge Poehling, all reports are good so far.
I'm probably the only one who's gonna say this, but i disagree with this whole "you draft for the BPA regardless of size" narrative.
While i agree that speed and skill is the most important attribute to look for, you still need size.
In fact, i think we will slowly but surely see small skilled players slowly lose their advantage as very soon all teams will weed out the slow footed pylons on defense (where have you gone, Douglas Murray) and have dmen with size and who can skate in order to neutralize the smaller forwards.
In addition, I also believe this trend will also lead to teams to figure out "well, we better not rely on those small skilled forwards anymore so let's start to counteract those huge speedy d-men by drafting huge forwards who could skate and handle the puck".
Ultimately, it will be a league where big boys with skills and speed at both the forward and defense position that will be the norm.
I get it that it that guys like Gaudreau, Marner, Debrincat, Gallagher, Tyler Johnson still have their place and canl excel in this league, but these will be the exception, not the rule ( and in most cases, they are surrounded by bigger guys)
All this to say please no more guys like Dumont, Colberg, Bozon, Audette, Andreghetto, Maxwell, Bitten, etc... (i'm not even sold on Mete to be honest)
And i'm not advocating for big guys who can't skate either (hello McCaron)
The league is trending to skilled, big and fast (see the Jets ) and we need to draft accordingly, not experiment with a trend that we were too late on and that is about to die. (and yes i know Vegas is small, but lets see how long they'll last against a team that is not just big but that can also skate with them)
While i agree that speed and skill is the most important attribute to look for, you still need size.
In fact, i think we will slowly but surely see small skilled players slowly lose their advantage as very soon all teams will weed out the slow footed pylons on defense (where have you gone, Douglas Murray) and have dmen with size and who can skate in order to neutralize the smaller forwards.
In addition, I also believe this trend will also lead to teams to figure out "well, we better not rely on those small skilled forwards anymore so let's start to counteract those huge speedy d-men by drafting huge forwards who could skate and handle the puck".
Ultimately, it will be a league where big boys with skills and speed at both the forward and defense position that will be the norm.
I get it that it that guys like Gaudreau, Marner, Debrincat, Gallagher, Tyler Johnson still have their place and canl excel in this league, but these will be the exception, not the rule ( and in most cases, they are surrounded by bigger guys)
All this to say please no more guys like Dumont, Colberg, Bozon, Audette, Andreghetto, Maxwell, Bitten, etc... (i'm not even sold on Mete to be honest)
And i'm not advocating for big guys who can't skate either (hello McCaron)
The league is trending to skilled, big and fast (see the Jets ) and we need to draft accordingly, not experiment with a trend that we were too late on and that is about to die. (and yes i know Vegas is small, but lets see how long they'll last against a team that is not just big but that can also skate with them)
Goodbahd
Registered User
- Dec 17, 2017
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Timmins needs to be fired. He’s well past his expirary date with us. Overall, his tenure has been a failure. Not one single decent centre (the most important position in Hockey) has ever been drafted by him.
Quite a few of the guys mentioned who busted or have underachieved are described as guys who were thought of being able to develop offense.
How about taking guys who already have offense but need work in other areas instead ? Skill , sense and speed.
How about taking guys who already have offense but need work in other areas instead ? Skill , sense and speed.
The entire organization, has failed to land us a Centre...not just Timmins. We have not drafted an impact type of centre, since Koivu which takes us back to the 90's
Ribeiro, Grabovski,
Galcheniuk was a project for that position also (was a consensus pick).
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