Trevor Timmins Discussion Part III

[Habs Halifax]

Yet you declared this player, who havent played a single pro game in his life a hit... you contributed a lot to said "narrative".

Yes, you are hard headed. I said according to my own prediction that he is and will be a 1st round hit. Not saying he will have as much value as Pastnerak or McAvoy but I do think Poehling will be a middle 2 center.

You don't have to agree. And I'm wondering what your point is? That he is not a guaranteed 1st round hit? Well duh, he is still playing NCAA and a developing prospect. Try telling us something we don't know.

What's your prediction for Poehling? Bust, middle 2C, or 4th line center? Are you too afraid to make a prediction?

 

[Habs Halifax]

difference between the two of us, I don't pretend to know the future and declare players who have yet to play a single pro game in their life hits/miss.

Not even sure you ever saw Polig play anyway, I wouldnt be surprised to learn you never watch a minute of Polig yet...

Understood but what's your problem with a future prediction? Is it not allowed according to your standards?

Very curious why you assumed my opinion was a guarantee? I question your motives

 

[ECWHSWI]

Yes, you are hard headed. I said according to my own prediction that he is and will be a 1st round hit. Not saying he will have as much value as Pastnerak or McAvoy but I do think Poehling will be a middle 2 center.

You don't have to agree. And I'm wondering what your point is? That he is not a guaranteed 1st round hit? Well duh, he is still playing NCAA and a developing prospect. Try telling us something we don't know.

What's your prediction for Poehling? Bust, middle 2C, or 4th line center? Are you too afraid to make a prediction?

considering how many times you've repeated that he's a "hit", even though you've never seen him play, it does sound like a guarantee...

 

[Habs Halifax]

considering how many times you've repeated that he's a "hit", even though you've never seen him play, it does sound like a guarantee...

Nah, You want to believe I think it's a guarantee. I will tell you that the projections at this stage is he is a middle 2C. Manny believe this based on how he is developing and the 200' reliable game he plays already

It's not some wild out of thin air prediction

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Next time, don't reply. You are wasting HF board space with your BS motives.

So you haven't actually seen Poehling play?

 

[Habs Halifax]

So you haven't actually seen Poehling play?

No. I've seen him play. Both NCAA games and the world juniors last year. I also saw him play in the rookie camp.

What's your opinion of Poehling? Middle 2C, Bust, or 4th line player? Or is your focus at a belittle attempt like the famous ECWHSWI?

No matter how you spin it, Poehling is a 1st round hit at this stage. Can he bust? Will he bust? Well, I guess you guys seem to think so? Is that the narrative you are presenting? So in this case, he can't be considered a 1st round hit? I think Poehling is a grade A prospect and he is developing very well in his draft +1 and 2 years.

2C or 3C. Quote me later if he busts like you say he can.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I've been for new blood for a long time, but last year's draft where they took a lot of skilled players with other question marks, if they continue with that ideology, I'm willing to let it go.

One thing is for sure. When MB is gone. Everyone else that's been here for his entire tenure needs to go as well.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

The string of first round busts is really sad. From 2009-2014 LeBlanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, McCarron and Scherbak. Where's the accountability. How the hell is Timmins still here?

 

[Whitesnake]

The string of first round busts is really sad. From 2009-2014 LeBlanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, McCarron and Scherbak. Where's the accountability. How the hell is Timmins still here?

'Cause he had that great 2007 draft. It does work though. At my job, at my annual review, I said to my boss that while I sucked this year, 11 years ago, my company made money because of me. He gave me a raise.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

No. I've seen him play. Both NCAA games and the world juniors last year. I also saw him play in the rookie camp.

What's your opinion of Poehling? Middle 2C, Bust, or 4th line player? Or is your focus at a belittle attempt like the famous ECWHSWI?

No matter how you spin it, Poehling is a 1st round hit at this stage. Can he bust? Will he bust? Well, I guess you guys seem to think so? Is that the narrative you are presenting? So in this case, he can't be considered a 1st round hit? I think Poehling is a grade A prospect and he is developing very well in his draft +1 and 2 years.

2C or 3C. Quote me later if he busts like you say he can.

It's fine to be excited about Poehling, but calling any prospect that hasn't played in the nhl yet a "hit" is just silly. Plenty of prospects show promise, very few actually end up being impact players. You really have to have good scouting AND luck on your side that everything goes right. For most prospects it's just wait and see.

 

[Whitesnake]

2C or 3C. Quote me later if he busts like you say he can.

I don't think that's their point. You cannot call a player a hit while he hasn't seen a pro ice. Even though we think he will be. Poehling is a great prospect. But a prospect cannot be call a hit 'cause how do you call guys that are succeeding pros? Super hits? Juste a question of putting everything in perspective and putting players at the same level. Pastrnak was a hit. Poehling is still a very good prospect. To this day, Cayden Primeau is a very good prospect. But he's not a hit.

It's just about respecting the process of what it is to go from prospect to NHL'er. LOTS of prospect ceilings starts and ends with Juniors. Others in the AHL. Others in the NHL as fillers. It still remains to be seen even though we do think he will be very good. What we think is irrelevant. Reality is relevant.

 

[DAChampion]

The string of first round busts is really sad. From 2009-2014 LeBlanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, McCarron and Scherbak. Where's the accountability. How the hell is Timmins still here?

It's not his fault that Lefebvre was hired for six years.

You can watch the changes in the next two years. All of a sudden guys like Fleury, Poehling, abd Evans will stop busting.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's fine to be excited about Poehling, but calling any prospect that hasn't played in the nhl yet a "hit" is just silly. Plenty of prospects show promise, very few actually end up being impact players. You really have to have good scouting AND luck on your side that everything goes right. For most prospects it's just wait and see.

It's not silly. Poehling is a grade A prospect and has developed well in his draft plus 2 years of development. He is a hit at this stage. It could change but we are not talking about McCarron types who were not good enough to make the world juniors.

Treating Grade A prospects who are developing very well vs fringe grade B types is weird. Nobody is talking about guarantees. Were talking about projections based on what we know today and Poehling looks very good.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think that's their point. You cannot call a player a hit while he hasn't seen a pro ice. Even though we think he will be. Poehling is a great prospect. But a prospect cannot be call a hit 'cause how do you call guys that are succeeding pros? Super hits? Juste a question of putting everything in perspective and putting players at the same level. Pastrnak was a hit. Poehling is still a very good prospect. To this day, Cayden Primeau is a very good prospect. But he's not a hit.

It's just about respecting the process of what it is to go from prospect to NHL'er. LOTS of prospect ceilings starts and ends with Juniors. Others in the AHL. Others in the NHL as fillers. It still remains to be seen even though we do think he will be very good. What we think is irrelevant. Reality is relevant.

Of course it's not their point. Their point is there are no guarantees and we all get that. Nobody is talking about guarantees except them.

I'm talking about projections based on what we know today. Poehling is a 1st round hit. Why? It has a lot to do with his draft plus 1 and 2 years of development.

I didn't call Primeau a hit. Goalies are hard to predict. It's not the same as Poehling's potential.

Do you or do you not agree? The probability that we know today is Poehling is a future 2C or 3C? Why were the Sabres willing to trade ROR for Poehling and a 2nd? Or was this false and just a rumor?

 

[TheBuriedHab]

It's not silly. Poehling is a grade A prospect and has developed well in his draft plus 2 years of development. He is a hit at this stage. It could change but we are not talking about McCarron types who were not good enough to make the world juniors.

Treating Grade A prospects who are developing very well vs fringe grade B types is weird. Nobody is talking about guarantees. Were talking about projections based on what we know today and Poehling looks very good.

It is silly. Promising A level prospects bust all the time. Is he a more valuable asset based on his development over prospects like Scherbak who look like they are on their last chance or a second round guy like Olafsson, yes but that's all. There's no such thing as a hit before they play any games and most scouts would tell you that. They deem a pick "successful" once the player plays 300 games.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

It's not his fault that Lefebvre was hired for six years.

You can watch the changes in the next two years. All of a sudden guys like Fleury, Poehling, abd Evans will stop busting.

That's a good point, that may indeed change the development for the newer prospects. I'm still inclined for a change though.

 

[Mrb1p]

The string of first round busts is really sad. From 2009-2014 LeBlanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, McCarron and Scherbak. Where's the accountability. How the hell is Timmins still here?

A 50 points forward is a bust

 

[Mrb1p]

It's not his fault that Lefebvre was hired for six years.

You can watch the changes in the next two years. All of a sudden guys like Fleury, Poehling, abd Evans will stop busting.

Its crazy tthat people dont realize this. How can you not take two seconds and think a bit ? Humanity will always surprise me.

 

[DAChampion]

Its crazy tthat people dont realize this. How can you not take two seconds and think a bit ? Humanity will always surprise me.

The idea that the cream always rises to the top is one of the core myths of our society. It's something that people need to believe.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The string of first round busts is really sad. From 2009-2014 LeBlanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, McCarron and Scherbak. Where's the accountability. How the hell is Timmins still here?

I blame him for Leblanc, Beaulieu and Scherbak Picks. But I think the GM's interfered with Tinordi and McCarron. Galchenyuk was not a bad pick IMO. His development is on him but the skill was there and that was not a bad pick.

But yeah, that is a very disappointing 6 year span.

 

[Whitesnake]

Of course it's not their point. Their point is there are no guarantees and we all get that. Nobody is talking about guarantees except them.

I'm talking about projections based on what we know today. Poehling is a 1st round hit. Why? It has a lot to do with his draft plus 1 and 2 years of development.

I didn't call Primeau a hit. Goalies are hard to predict. It's not the same as Poehling's potential.

Do you or do you not agree? The probability that we know today is Poehling is a future 2C or 3C? Why were the Sabres willing to trade ROR for Poehling and a 2nd? Or was this false and just a rumor?

But how are projections taken as if it's the reality? I projected Collberg to be a heck of a sniper winger in the NHL. I practically had no doubt. Is Collberg STILL a hit based on my projection? Or isn't he finally a huge miss no matter what we thought and no matter where we projected him to be?

What we know now is that he does look like a fine pick. For sure. BUt in no way shape or form should he be added in the win column for Timmins. McCarron was there one day. Tinordi was there one day. Beaulieu was there one day. I will tell you that Kristo was there one day. Yes, there are always things to revise. It's the number of the game. But the way you see things calls for a lot more revisions than what it should be.

I mean, if you think Poehling is a hit....what do you call Hillis already? Non-hit? Despite still being too early too call? Going back to Poehling....no problem for you to see him having only 3 goals so far in his 3rd NCAA year? That's practically half of a season already.....

 

[Vachon23]

I would give a golden bridge offer to get Martin Madden Jr to replace TT or if Pierre Dorion his fired

 

[Whitesnake]

It's not his fault that Lefebvre was hired for six years.

You can watch the changes in the next two years. All of a sudden guys like Fleury, Poehling, abd Evans will stop busting.

Makes no sense to me to just stop at that. It's not because Fleury, Poehling and Evans will stop busting that Lefebvre automatically had in the players he had, guys that were of similar value. Scherbak was PPG and then some with Lefebvre. Hudon was a 5th rounder that shines with Lefebvre. As good as Bouchard is, and he is good, what he will be able to do is perfect prospects play. But he won't be good enough to transform an apple into an orange.

Again, as I said before, there are just no proofs that the masters in coaching we had before Lefebvre were incredibly instrumental to Timmins great picks from 03 to 07.

Lefebvre was bad. Bouchard is good. But there's a freakin limit to how bad you could be so you take a great prospect into a career ECHL'er....or a career ECHL'er to a great top 6 pro.....

 

[DAChampion]

Makes no sense to me to just stop at that. It's not because Fleury, Poehling and Evans will stop busting that Lefebvre automatically had in the players he had, guys that were of similar value. Scherbak was PPG and then some with Lefebvre. Hudon was a 5th rounder that shines with Lefebvre. As good as Bouchard is, and he is good, what he will be able to do is perfect prospects play. But he won't be good enough to transform an apple into an orange.

Again, as I said before, there are just no proofs that the masters in coaching we had before Lefebvre were incredibly instrumental to Timmins great picks from 03 to 07.

Lefebvre was bad. Bouchard is good. But there's a freakin limit to how bad you could be so you take a great prospect into a career ECHL'er....or a career ECHL'er to a great top 6 pro.....

It is only with hindsight that people hate the bulk of Timmins' picks. For the most part, they were well-liked by both HFBoards fans and the hockey world until they started busting. Many of them were even tracking well for a long time.

I'm consistent in my views. I think that nearly all players need development, and that the Habs are a development nightmare in part due to Bergevin being a dinosaur, which percolates down. I expect things to change now. If they don't, I will re-evaluate.

 

[Whitesnake]

I blame him for Leblanc, Beaulieu and Scherbak Picks. But I think the GM's interfered with Tinordi and McCarron. Galchenyuk was not a bad pick IMO. His development is on him but the skill was there and that was not a bad pick.

But yeah, that is a very disappointing 6 year span.

NO idea how people can be so decisive. Leblanc, a guy that quit hockey at 27 years ago. How about his own mental strength? Beaulieu? Why? Scherbak? Well he improved his offensive game year after year with Lefebvre. Yep, he didn't perfect his overall game...but did he had in him to do it? Was he showing it in juniors or did we actually drafted him because of his skills without taken into consideration the rest? And bet we would be able to do it? Interfered with Tinordi and McCarron because of the big factor? 'Cause....Timmins don't draft big guys? So Crisp wasn't his pick either...who else? Was Quailer his pick? Was Jason Missiaien his pick? People actualy don't believe that Timmins likes big guys and would never draft them? How does that work?