Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part 7)

[The Great Weal]

Anyone want to bet that Ottawas 2nd rounders will be better than our 1st? The sad part is that people will still defend Timmins.

 

[Garbageyuk]

The current farm system is the deepest i've ever seen but to me drafting is just the first step, you have to be able to develop them and to me we just continue to see really stupid decisions in terms of rushing kids that clearly aren't ready for the NHL.

So what happens with this group of Kotka, Caufield, Romanov, Primeau, Harris, Struble, Brook, Ylonen, Juulsen, Fleury, Hillis, Evans, Pitlick, Fairbrother, etc.. only time will tell. If we continue to have shit decisions on rushing these kids and then when it's clear they need to go to the AHL it takes way too long before they finally make the move. If they would stop with the yo-yo treatment, give these kids as long as it takes to work on their game in the AHL, maybe we will finally get back to seeing good results like we did with Subban, Pac, Price, Halak, Streit, Grabo, Lappy, etc...

I know some don't believe in development or coaching as to having a big impact and in the case of extremely skilled guys like a Crosby, McDavid, etc... they are going to develop no matter what but guys with several holes in their games, they need proper coaching and someone that helps them while not messing with their confidence.

 

[Whitesnake]

The current farm system is the deepest i've ever seen but to me drafting is just the first step, you have to be able to develop them and to me we just continue to see really stupid decisions in terms of rushing kids that clearly aren't ready for the NHL.

So what happens with this group of Kotka, Caufield, Romanov, Primeau, Harris, Struble, Brook, Ylonen, Juulsen, Fleury, Hillis, Evans, Pitlick, Fairbrother, etc.. only time will tell. If we continue to have shit decisions on rushing these kids and then when it's clear they need to go to the AHL it takes way too long before they finally make the move. If they would stop with the yo-yo treatment, give these kids as long as it takes to work on their game in the AHL, maybe we will finally get back to seeing good results like we did with Subban, Pac, Price, Halak, Streit, Grabo, Lappy, etc...

I know some don't believe in development or coaching as to having a big impact and in the case of extremely skilled guys like a Crosby, McDavid, etc... they are going to develop no matter what but guys with several holes in their games, they need proper coaching and someone that helps them while not messing with their confidence.

I think that we cannot assess how deep a pool is till they haven't reached the pros. We can envision them being strong. But there's just no way to know for sure. And frankly, a draft, just like a pool, is always great until they are really tested. The 2012 draft was awesome, so I claimed and most people here. But it needed to be tested. Just like this pool will have.

I do know that I remember seeing Avtsin on the ice at dev. camp and coming back impressed. Same for Juraj Mikus. Or Torp? Or Korpikari. Or Gleed. Or Wyman. Or....

So on paper, BEFORE they reach the pros, yes, that list looks good. But it might not mean anything.

 

[DAChampion]

Anyone want to bet that Ottawas 2nd rounders will be better than our 1st? The sad part is that people will still defend Timmins.

I think that fewer people will defend Timmins if the results don't clearly improve within the next 12 months.

 

[montreal]

I think that we cannot assess how deep a pool is till they haven't reached the pros. We can envision them being strong. But there's just no way to know for sure. And frankly, a draft, just like a pool, is always great until they are really tested. The 2012 draft was awesome, so I claimed and most people here. But it needed to be tested. Just like this pool will have.

I do know that I remember seeing Avtsin on the ice at dev. camp and coming back impressed. Same for Juraj Mikus. Or Torp? Or Korpikari. Or Gleed. Or Wyman. Or....

So on paper, BEFORE they reach the pros, yes, that list looks good. But it might not mean anything.

I don't look at it that way, yes seeing them in the pros is huge but every year we are going to look at our farm system and rank it so nothing changes just that many don't want to hear that our system is the deepest it's been as saying anything positive is not good.

Of course they are just prospects, and with the way we develop and rush these kids a lot can still go wrong but I look at the system and I have never seen a better top 15 in terms of quantity at least. The bad news is you need quality and that's where we need more improvement which is huge.

But having Kotka, Caufield, Romanov, Primeau, Harris, Struble, Brook, Ylonen, Juulsen, Fleury, Hillis, Evans, Pitlick, Fairbrother, Poehling plus the '20 picks is a ton of depth for sure. How good they end up is anyone's guess but without really looking at it too much, I don't recall a deeper top 15 at this time of the year. And that's not counting Teasdale and Ikonen since they didn't play a game all year plus Olofsson could be a NHLer in a few years, maybe Vejdemo continues to improve, etc..

I think that fewer people will defend Timmins if the results don't clearly improve within the next 12 months.

For sure as it could be a huge year in terms of prospects.

NHL - Romanov, Caufield maybe, Juulsen, Evans

AHL - Primeau, Brook, Fleury, Hillis, Poehling Teasdale, Ylonen?, Harris? Plus any others they sign like Fonstad, RHP, Khisamutdinov, McShane

 

[Scintillating10]

See Canucks come to town shows how good drafting can turn a team around. Horvat, Quinn Hughes, Petterson are core to build around. While our top 10 picks, one is in the minors, another been traded 4 times and likely on his last NHL team. While the other is playing for Tampa.

 

[McGees]

See Canucks come to town shows how good drafting can turn a team around. Horvat, Quinn Hughes, Petterson are core to build around. While our top 10 picks, one is in the minors, another been traded 4 times and likely on his last NHL team. While the other is playing for Tampa.

Van has done well but it helps when you draft top 10 several years in a row as oppose to Habs picking mid 20s several years in a row. They also could have had Nylander or Pastrnak over Virtanen and Tkachuk instead of Juolevi (My point is every team makes mistakes). Galchenyuk draft was notoriously bad and KK is only 19, give him time. My biggest issue is that we never allowed ourselves to pick top 10 several years in a row to properly gather that prospect base.

 

[MrNasty]

Anyone want to bet that Ottawas 2nd rounders will be better than our 1st? The sad part is that people will still defend Timmins.

50% chance but what is a 100% chance is that if they are good Ottawa will trade them away when they want to make more than a few million a year.

 

[Whitesnake]

I don't look at it that way, yes seeing them in the pros is huge but every year we are going to look at our farm system and rank it so nothing changes just that many don't want to hear that our system is the deepest it's been as saying anything positive is not good.

I have no problem ranking our pool now. Just like I have no problem declaring a draft winner THE day of the draft. This is all good. And extremely fun to do. I did it. I do it. And will do it.

But we have to know the limitations of it. And we have to know that it means so much. That the only result that matters is what happens in the pro.

 

[The Great Weal]

I think that fewer people will defend Timmins if the results don't clearly improve within the next 12 months.

Nah it's been how long now and people still defend him. Next up is that Timmins only had 1 top 3 pick and 3 2nds in 2018, he only had 1 1st and 2 2nds in 2017, he only had 1 1st and 1 second last year, he only has 1 1st and 3 2nds this draft. It's all luck and we have just been unlucky for over a decade.

 

[lo striver]

our hypothetical pool is the deepest, I tellya

 

[CAR3YPR1CE]

This dirt bag should have been gone with Gillette. He has single handedly crippled this organization for long enough.

 

[BLONG7]

Anyone want to bet that Ottawas 2nd rounders will be better than our 1st? The sad part is that people will still defend Timmins.

The time has come, TT has to go when Bergy goes!! It's another beyond expiration kind of guy, he did some good over his 17 years, but he missed on alot of players. Alot........

 

[DAChampion]

This dirt bag should have been gone with Gillette. He has single handedly crippled this organization for long enough.

George Gillette was great.

 

[DAChampion]

Nah it's been how long now and people still defend him. Next up is that Timmins only had 1 top 3 pick and 3 2nds in 2018, he only had 1 1st and 2 2nds in 2017, he only had 1 1st and 1 second last year, he only has 1 1st and 3 2nds this draft. It's all luck and we have just been unlucky for over a decade.

Well I can speak for myself alone then.

The Lefebvre excuse is gone.

 

[montreal]

Well I can speak for myself alone then.

The Lefebvre excuse is gone.

it's not even worth saying it as no one is going to blame Lefebvre for the prospects he hasn't coached.

 

[WinterLion]

The current farm system is the deepest i've ever seen but to me drafting is just the first step, you have to be able to develop them and to me we just continue to see really stupid decisions in terms of rushing kids that clearly aren't ready for the NHL.

So what happens with this group of Kotka, Caufield, Romanov, Primeau, Harris, Struble, Brook, Ylonen, Juulsen, Fleury, Hillis, Evans, Pitlick, Fairbrother, etc.. only time will tell. If we continue to have shit decisions on rushing these kids and then when it's clear they need to go to the AHL it takes way too long before they finally make the move. If they would stop with the yo-yo treatment, give these kids as long as it takes to work on their game in the AHL, maybe we will finally get back to seeing good results like we did with Subban, Pac, Price, Halak, Streit, Grabo, Lappy, etc...

I know some don't believe in development or coaching as to having a big impact and in the case of extremely skilled guys like a Crosby, McDavid, etc... they are going to develop no matter what but guys with several holes in their games, they need proper coaching and someone that helps them while not messing with their confidence.

Yes this is the deepest and the best prospect pool I have seen. It should definitely lead to some solid NHLers. Patience is definitely required.

 

[DAChampion]

Yes this is the deepest and the best prospect pool I have seen. It should definitely lead to some solid NHLers. Patience is definitely required.

IMO it's a deep prospect pool in the sense that it has a lot of middle-six forwards and second pairing dmen.

The pool is lacking in potential gamebreakers.

 

[WinterLion]

IMO it's a deep prospect pool in the sense that it has a lot of middle-six forwards and second pairing dmen.

The pool is lacking in potential gamebreakers.

It's a bit early to tell. If you are projecting I guess it depends on what you think of Romanov, Caulfield and Primeau... there are mixed opinions but some people see all those guys as being possible game changers... then there is also Suzuki & Kotkienemi who may not be on the list but might as well be as they are both so young...

 

[montreal]

IMO it's a deep prospect pool in the sense that it has a lot of middle-six forwards and second pairing dmen.

The pool is lacking in potential gamebreakers.

kind of expected though when we have 4 top 15 picks in the last 12 years. Caufield, Kotka, Sergachev and Galchenyuk. Not saying you can't find gamebreakers outside the top 5, 10, 15, look at the current top 10 scorers in the NHL, 6 of them are either 1st or 3rd OA picks, one never drafted and a late 1st, a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick that plays with one of the best players in the world I believe.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

IMO it's a deep prospect pool in the sense that it has a lot of middle-six forwards and second pairing dmen.

The pool is lacking in potential gamebreakers.

That's the problem with having so many picks coming up in this draft. We should look to trade up some of these picks for higher ones. At the end of the day there's only so many spots to begin with and when you have a ton of lower end picks it's kind of a waste.

 

[mariolemieux66]

kind of expected though when we have 4 top 15 picks in the last 12 years. Caufield, Kotka, Sergachev and Galchenyuk. Not saying you can't find gamebreakers outside the top 5, 10, 15, look at the current top 10 scorers in the NHL, 6 of them are either 1st or 3rd OA picks, one never drafted and a late 1st, a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick that plays with one of the best players in the world I believe.

14 picks in the last 4 rounds the next 2 years. We have 25 picks the next 2 years and of those 25, maybe 8 will be in the top 70. This year could have been a repeat of our 2007 draft if Bergevin had added a 1st round pick.

 

[Whitesnake]

14 picks in the last 4 rounds the next 2 years. We have 25 picks the next 2 years and of those 25, maybe 8 will be in the top 70. This year could have been a repeat of our 2007 draft if Bergevin had added a 1st round pick.

You have to hope that this is what's coming at the draft. Staying on his hands and picking 14 times would be stupid.

 

[SOLR]

Van has done well but it helps when you draft top 10 several years in a row as oppose to Habs picking mid 20s several years in a row. They also could have had Nylander or Pastrnak over Virtanen and Tkachuk instead of Juolevi (My point is every team makes mistakes). Galchenyuk draft was notoriously bad and KK is only 19, give him time. My biggest issue is that we never allowed ourselves to pick top 10 several years in a row to properly gather that prospect base.

Another example of tanking that works, no, you don't say.

 

[SOLR]

That's the problem with having so many picks coming up in this draft. We should look to trade up some of these picks for higher ones. At the end of the day there's only so many spots to begin with and when you have a ton of lower end picks it's kind of a waste.

Particularly nowadays, very rare are the late-round draftees that are hidden talents. So many more cameras, so many more tests & data.