I'll always remember the thread where one poster was insisting he was the next Martin St. Louis, and confidently comparing their first couple seasons in the league
.Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part 7)
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We've had several consensus top 5 prospect pools in the last dozen years. Nothing ever came of them.
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2003
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Like when Price, Subban and Pacioretty all busted........
If you want to wallow in your pool of delusion and despair with your tin foil hat as a floatation device then that is your prerogative.
This board is an embarrassment today, finding an intelligent objective opinion around here is like panning for gold at the base of Niagara Falls.
Doc McKenna
A new era 2021
- Jan 5, 2009
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consensus because real teams have their prospects playing while our miracles are playing in the minors. Seen this show over and over for the last decade. So far Lehk and Mete to show for! Stellar work MARC
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
How difficult will it be to use our 2nd's to trade down into the 1st round? Hearing the talent drops off in the 2nd this year? If we get no bites, I'd easily swap a late 2nd and early 3rd for a 2nd and 3rd next year not even knowing where they will be in those rounds.
14 picks is way too many. 10 is a lot
14 picks is way too many. 10 is a lot
I looked into this a bit, working backwards here's notable NHLers the stockpiling picks strategy yielded. I listed them in order drafted.
13 Picks
Panthers 2010: Gudbranson, Bjugstad, Donskoi, Hyman
Islanders 2008: Bailey, Hamonic, Martin, Spurgeon
12 Picks
Canes 2019 - too early
Vegas 2017 - too early
11 Picks
Sabers 2013: Ristolainen, Zadorov, Compher
Blackhawks 2011: Danault, Saad, Shaw
Wings 2017 - too early
Wings 2019 - too early
Oilers 2010: Hall, Pitlick
Habs 2018 -Too early
Devils 2017 - too early
Devils 2019 - too early
Leafs 2016 - Matthews
10 picks
Ducks 2008: Gardiner, J. Schultz
Bruins 2015: DeBrusk, Carlo
Sabres 2016: A. Nylander
Blackhawks 2010: K. Hayes, Nordstrom
Wings 2018 - too early
Oilers 2013: Nurse
Panthers 2011: Huberdeau, Trochek
Kings 2009: Schenn, Clifford, Deslauriers, Nolan
Kings 2014: Kempe, Amadio
Habs 2019 - too early
Preds 2013: Jones, Saros
Rangers 2018 - too early
Sens 2011: Zibanejad, Pageau, Dzingel
Flyers 2016: Hart
Blues 2008: Pietrangelo, Allen, Lehtera
Blues 2014: Fabbri, Barbashev, Blais
Lightning 2016: Howden
Caps 2012: Forsberg, Wilson
Jets 2013: Morrissey, Copp
The general observations I made were that the more picks strategy in most years should yield a few serviceable NHLers. All the players I defined as franchise players came from the top-5. There were some great finds in later rounds (2nd onwards), including Saad, Carlo, Trochek to name a few, but not really any franchise cornerstone assets.
The Habs have had the "4 second lines" team build as long as I can remember. In my professional career if I presented luck as a strategy I'd be canned. I think the quickest way to strategically building an NHL team is to do the many picks strategy, but also trim down the NHL roster so it's finishing near the bottom of the standings. Bring in the talent and bring in a bunch of NHLers. Don't just rely on luck.
This likely isn't a revelation for most.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
10 darts in one draft is enough. But then context kicks in and what kind of draft power is it and how deep that draft year is. Very curious to see how this unfolds cause I have not seen anybody have 14 picks in the last 12 drafts.
I only expect about 2-4 NHL players from any draft year. 2 is average and 4 is above average. I rather diversify our picks and I hope they do by trading some for the 22 draft. We already have 10 in 21! lol
I also avoid the cherry pick evaluation approach. Rather look at it from a far and a bigger picture approach
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WinterLion
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
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Yes More picks is clearly the best strategy to rebuild. Even if you believe there are differences among NHL teams drafting ability that difference is not enough to make up for the difference between more picks.
Of course getting the superstar player is another matter... but even that can't be solved by having a top pick because the vast majority of top 10 picks don't even become star players, let alone superstars.
Sorry who am I talking to!! You guys all know this!
Jabba11
Hockey Lobby
I'm done with him and his way of drafting. I'll always remember his "best assett available" after picking KK. It's ridiculous.
Chris Pronger
Valar morghulis
It doesn’t mean anything having a top 5 prospect pool if we can’t do sh** with them
Gaylord Q Tinkledink
Registered User
- Apr 29, 2018
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Congrats. The person you quoted said several and you had to go back 13 years to find a prospect pool that didn't end up being terrible.
How about when our prospect pool looked promising with Kristo, Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn, Gallagher, Nattinen, Ellis and Nygren. How did that group turn out ?
How about 2014
We had McCarron, Fucale, De La Rose, Lehkonen, Scherbak, Andrighetto, Reway, Evans(though he didn't gain much faith until about 2-3 years ago), Galchenyuk(though NHL), Collberg, Thrower,Hudon ?
How about 2017.
Juulsen, Vedjemo, Sergachev, Mete, Bitten, Poehling, Brook, Ikonen, Fleury, Primeau,
This last one is still a little early to tell, so it could turn it around with some of them, but they're mostly filled with busts.
Chili
En boca cerrada no entran moscas
- Jun 10, 2004
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If they didn`t understand his answers, neither did I. Bergy should post here, he`d fit right in!.
justafan22
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2014
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After yesterday's questions, the heat is starting to turn on management.
it's not at critical levels yet, but it's there
it's not at critical levels yet, but it's there
salbutera
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- Sep 10, 2019
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I think it’s quite the opposite, for MB the PC was water off a ducks back. Had he felt the slightest pressure he’d have made a significant deal this deadline - either buy or sell.
My takeaway is status quo was perfectly acceptable for ownership
justafan22
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- Jun 22, 2014
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Oh I agree... from the ownership side. But in the press, you got a few guys even Gagnon starting to question the draft record.
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
- Jan 5, 2003
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You don't need to understand shit from Bergevin 'cause it's a melting pot of stupidities. But you could ask simple questions that could demand simple quesetions. Are you satisfied with Timmins and Co? Why do you still believe in drafting for needs? Can you name exactly the players that you feel are part of Timmins great resume. And since you mostly have to go back 13 years ago, do you think a team can be great when you have to go back that far to find success?
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
- Jan 5, 2003
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The thing is....you'd go see MOlson and ask him how he thought Bergevin did and he'll say....fine.
Fans might have a say in the firing of coaches and GM's. But fans don't have a say in a change of ownership. And it's Molson son, the guy who inherited the fortune, that is in charge of it.
Molson is Eric Trump.
Who found the talent on Opening NHL Rosters 2019-20?
Given that thursday we dressed up a grand total of zero homegrown talent, and considering how good Vancouver youngsters are, it's safe to assume we slipped in last place regarding drafting and development over the past 10 years.
This is a critical situation.
Given that thursday we dressed up a grand total of zero homegrown talent, and considering how good Vancouver youngsters are, it's safe to assume we slipped in last place regarding drafting and development over the past 10 years.
This is a critical situation.
Captain Mountain
Formerly Captain Wolverine
- Jun 6, 2010
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While that's obviously true, you're still more likely to get superstar players drafting in the top-3 or top-5 than you are later on. You also less likely to trade or sign star players than draft them. Nothing is certain, but Bergevin seems utterly committed to the "do everything and hope for luck strategy". Which may work, but it isn't a vision.
Chili
En boca cerrada no entran moscas
- Jun 10, 2004
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+All you need is a press pass.
I don`t know if he still does but Ted Leonsis used to take emails from fans and he would reply. Would be interesting to see the ones sent to Geoff Molson if he takes any.
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montreal
Go Habs Go
The current farm system is the deepest i've ever seen but to me drafting is just the first step, you have to be able to develop them and to me we just continue to see really stupid decisions in terms of rushing kids that clearly aren't ready for the NHL.
So what happens with this group of Kotka, Caufield, Romanov, Primeau, Harris, Struble, Brook, Ylonen, Juulsen, Fleury, Hillis, Evans, Pitlick, Fairbrother, etc.. only time will tell. If we continue to have shit decisions on rushing these kids and then when it's clear they need to go to the AHL it takes way too long before they finally make the move. If they would stop with the yo-yo treatment, give these kids as long as it takes to work on their game in the AHL, maybe we will finally get back to seeing good results like we did with Subban, Pac, Price, Halak, Streit, Grabo, Lappy, etc...
I know some don't believe in development or coaching as to having a big impact and in the case of extremely skilled guys like a Crosby, McDavid, etc... they are going to develop no matter what but guys with several holes in their games, they need proper coaching and someone that helps them while not messing with their confidence.
hotcarle
Registered User
“Drafting is like throwing darts at a dartboard”, management tells us.
well, apparently from 2008-15, we weren’t even aiming at the dartboard. We were aiming at the garbage can.
how the media completely ignores this , and actually tells us Timmins is THE BEST, mocking anyone who differs, is disturbing.
well, apparently from 2008-15, we weren’t even aiming at the dartboard. We were aiming at the garbage can.
how the media completely ignores this , and actually tells us Timmins is THE BEST, mocking anyone who differs, is disturbing.
Chili
En boca cerrada no entran moscas
- Jun 10, 2004
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Juulsen and Poehling looked like pretty good draft picks and maybe they still will be. But they are a reminder of how hard it is to move up the ladder.
There are only ~700 NHL players and the ones there now aren't real anxious to give up their spots.
It's only the very best of the rest that will succeed. It's more then talent, it's perseverance, getting back on your feet and working hard each time you're knocked on your butt. The best have the combination of talent and passion, that would be the goal to identify if I was scrutinizing these kids.
There are only ~700 NHL players and the ones there now aren't real anxious to give up their spots.
It's only the very best of the rest that will succeed. It's more then talent, it's perseverance, getting back on your feet and working hard each time you're knocked on your butt. The best have the combination of talent and passion, that would be the goal to identify if I was scrutinizing these kids.
I think the issue is both terrible drafting and development, otherwise the most recently drafted top 6/4 player in our lineup wouldn't be Gallagher.
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