Confirmed with Link: Treliving needs to go. (Edit: He Gone, Post #78)

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Ummm a little player named Rapha Diaz??
But no. His bigger money signings, Brouwer, etc did not hit.
He had a few smaller ones like Quine, Gudbrandson that were okay.

His first ever winger UFA signing in Frolik was great. Other than that Brouwer and Neal were yikes.

 

[Kranix]

His first ever winger UFA signing in Frolik was great. Other than that Brouwer and Neal were yikes.

Frolik was okay. he signed him to a 5 year deal at age 27 and he was decent for maybe three out of the five. Not really Brad's fault..

But, I feel very strongly, that if I was a GM, I would never, ever sign 0.5 ppg forwards to 5 year 4mill+ contracts. That's a fatal quicksand, imo. (Blake Coleman)

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Frolik was okay. he signed him to a 5 year deal at age 27 and he was decent for maybe three out of the five. Not really Brad's fault..

But, I feel very strongly, that if I was a GM, I would never, ever sign 0.5 ppg forwards to 5 year 4mill+ contracts. That's a fatal quicksand, imo. (Blake Coleman)

Coleman is definitely not good, but he isn't in the same stratosphere of Neal or Brouwer. He's still an excellent defensive winger that is a good mentor. Brouwer and Neal beyond just being liabilities also seemed like toxic people to the room.

 

[Kranix]

Coleman is definitely not good, but he isn't in the same stratosphere of Neal or Brouwer. He's still an excellent defensive winger that is a good mentor. Brouwer and Neal beyond just being liabilities also seemed like toxic people to the room.

Coleman can have 3 million in my regime. I agree though he's good two-way, had a great year by his standards last year.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Coleman can have 3 million in my regime. I agree though he's good two-way, had a great year by his standards last year.

Yeah he is a slight bit overpaid, but even right now he has some value in a trade. If he was retained to 3mill, he'd fetch a late 1st easily.

 

[Mobiandi]

I wonder how tired Conroy was of seeing Lucic dress for almost every single game this season.

Farewell Trevor Lewis as well

 

[Some Other Flame]

His first ever winger UFA signing in Frolik was great. Other than that Brouwer and Neal were yikes.

The extra year on Frolik's contract was part of the reason they had to bridge Tkachuk. That and giving Neal 5.75M the year before. And the Brouwer buyout still being on the books.

Gudbranson was a Sutter connection

The problem with Coleman is that he'll be 32 to start next season with another four years left at 4.9M. It's the definition of a cap anchor especially given his best offensive season was 38 points in 82 games. In the cap era, these are the type of contracts that ruin competitive windows.

But that being said, Coleman's being misused, as is the case for so many other Flames players. He's almost like a poor mans Tkachuk and a better, more creative coaching staff would have at least given Huberdeau-Lindholm-Coleman a good look in game action.

 

[Fig]

Leafs fan here,

With Tree being linked to the Leafs I am just trying to get an honest assessment. From an outsiders perspective it looked as though Tree was well respected by players and around the league. He seemed to do some good things, and some bad. From reading this thread it kind of looks like he may have had an owner that was pushing a narrative that he may or may not have believed in.

Just kind of wanting to see what you guys thought of his tenure. What were his strengths, what were his weaknesses?

cheers,

There's a bit of revisionist history for certain things and there's a bit of overemphasis of other things. The fact that many Flames fans think he's mediocre is a testament to the fact he works hard. His effects are seen not just on the on ice roster and draft selections. There are many other ones. Many important, under the radar, but something that you'd never go without with again.

Pros:
- Works hard. Knows everything. Leaves no stone unturned. We always joked he was in on all deals even if the odds of him landing a deal was 0.01%. But I think he often leveraged this information for other deals.
- He loves focusing on his research on prospects. He identified guys like Murray and did try to acquire many of them before they popped. Apparently he was close, but Pittsburgh wanted a few games to see what they had in him before trading.
- Very good at RFA negotiations and contracts making for great value contracts.
- Loves scooping up RFA and adding in the effort of contract negotiations to add value to the team/roster. That's how we got the value we did on the trade for Lindholm + Hanifin and prior to that Hamilton. Carolina didn't want to do contract negotiations.
- Loyal, almost to a fault. But there's often indications that the players do have a good relationship with him.
- Overhauled and fixed a very broken AHL prospect development system (was in Adirondack, helped work on a new AHL alignment and brought them out West to same time zone and a few hours away to monitor vs 8+ to monitor plus diff time zone)
- Changed summer camp from a pointless invite competition and redesigned it into a prospect education camp (cooking/nutrition, social media, finances, work outs etc.). This helped to develop our guys and although we didn't get them, guys like Zamula and Myers were success stories out of that program (I haven't kept tabs on whether there were more of those guys. IIRC they hinted that those summer camps were helpful in some interviews.
- Significantly upgraded mental health and substance abuse programs
- Has been a great representative of the Flames and Calgary as a whole. Has been active in promoting them.
- Willing to admit mistakes quickly. Examples of this is dumping Neal within a few months of the signing. Yes, the mistake was there, but the fact he isn't like other GMs and fanbases that just kinda stare at the deal and wait it out, he literally addressed it rapidly via Lucic trade. The Bill Peters situation was also addressed very quickly and professionally.
- He will always make you feel like the roster is improved on paper in the places it needs to be improved. (ie: RW... Neal)
- He interviews quite well.

Cons:
- His focus on prospects seemed to mean the quality of the UFA or roster players he acquires at times is a little... lower end?
- His RFA contracts are great value contracts but give some fans the perception that the players become upset with him for future contracts. The only one I've heard of is Tkachuk and he was mad he got bridged vs 8 years and that one can be pointed at the nixxed Kadri trade (which would have given us about 1.5 to 2 mil AAV to give the rumored 8.5x8 or 8x8 Tkachuk wanted after flipping Brown).
- You'll never know what deals he is actually up to and who he actually is seriously looking into. (Because he's looking into everyone)
- Paper is not the same as playing it out on the ice (but as TML fans, I think this is already a given)
- Because he's in on all deals, he's often one of the finalists. It's slightly annoying to hear after a while that we were the second or third best option in a whole bunch of trades of high profile players (ie: Hall, Eichel, Stone etc.)
- Some of the player analysis were strangely questionable or somewhat incomplete/lacking (ie: Neal, Hamonic)
- He hates leaks. Very few rumors get out and in the past, we've wondered if he'd let Conroy wander out there and do a bunch of interviews in a specific way as a smokescreen against his real intentions.
- His talent against strict ownership mandates may mean multiple mediocre seasons. This isn't good as many fans prefer hot or cold vs lukewarm. Unfortunately, it's uncertain if this is going to be resolved by TML ownership (Dubas rumors) or if it will continue and he'll be in a similar or same situation as here.
- Loyal, to a fault. (ie: Gaudreau walking, Bennett saying he had a good relationship and chat with Brad but was surprised to have been traded). I've on occasion also wondered if the Bennett trade had something else outside of his control influence the decision to move him.
- Loyalty wise, I'm also pretty sure that Brad keeps tabs on hockey related social media. When the main Calgary social medias (reddit, HF, CP etc.) all started complaining about the owners being cheap, he literally started one off season interview about how the owners are great and there was no restriction on things like paying a coach and said owners approve spending to the cap etc. I recall it was an unprovoked comment from the interviewer. This makes it slightly hard to figure out if it's his failure or ownership failure/meddling that was the true cause of certain issues. But honestly, maybe it doesn't matter.

Other:
- Navigated not one but two controversies during his tenure. (ie: Wideman and Peters).
- The dragon's den and Boston Pizza jokes never really took hold (His dad is Jim Treliving)
- He has inexplicably puffy and rosy lips. This might be a consequence of him seemingly being a regular or occasional user of chewing tobacco? (IIRC he was seen using it in a box with Burke one year during playoffs)

 

[HighLifeMan]

The extra year on Frolik's contract was part of the reason they had to bridge Tkachuk. That and giving Neal 5.75M the year before. And the Brouwer buyout still being on the books.

Gudbranson was a Sutter connection

The problem with Coleman is that he'll be 32 to start next season with another four years left at 4.9M. It's the definition of a cap anchor especially given his best offensive season was 38 points in 82 games. In the cap era, these are the type of contracts that ruin competitive windows.

But that being said, Coleman's being misused, as is the case for so many other Flames players. He's almost like a poor mans Tkachuk and a better, more creative coaching staff would have at least given Huberdeau-Lindholm-Coleman a good look in game action.

Coleman will be taking up less than 6% of this team's capspace as of next season. While he may be slightly overpaid - it's hardly a deterrent considering the areas of the game that he can impact. That number will also continue to dwindle down in the upcoming seasons.

The anchors are contracts like Lucic that take up space while providing net negative value on the ice.

You can certainly survive with quality players being slightly overpaid. I would also say that this also highlights the need to have young entry level talent on your roster (and in important roles) at all times which Conroy talked about.

 

[Twine Tickler]

There's a bit of revisionist history for certain things and there's a bit of overemphasis of other things. The fact that many Flames fans think he's mediocre is a testament to the fact he works hard. His effects are seen not just on the on ice roster and draft selections. There are many other ones. Many important, under the radar, but something that you'd never go without with again.

Pros:
- Works hard. Knows everything. Leaves no stone unturned. We always joked he was in on all deals even if the odds of him landing a deal was 0.01%. But I think he often leveraged this information for other deals.
- He loves focusing on his research on prospects. He identified guys like Murray and did try to acquire many of them before they popped. Apparently he was close, but Pittsburgh wanted a few games to see what they had in him before trading.
- Very good at RFA negotiations and contracts making for great value contracts.
- Loves scooping up RFA and adding in the effort of contract negotiations to add value to the team/roster. That's how we got the value we did on the trade for Lindholm + Hanifin and prior to that Hamilton. Carolina didn't want to do contract negotiations.
- Loyal, almost to a fault. But there's often indications that the players do have a good relationship with him.
- Overhauled and fixed a very broken AHL prospect development system (was in Adirondack, helped work on a new AHL alignment and brought them out West to same time zone and a few hours away to monitor vs 8+ to monitor plus diff time zone)
- Changed summer camp from a pointless invite competition and redesigned it into a prospect education camp (cooking/nutrition, social media, finances, work outs etc.). This helped to develop our guys and although we didn't get them, guys like Zamula and Myers were success stories out of that program (I haven't kept tabs on whether there were more of those guys. IIRC they hinted that those summer camps were helpful in some interviews.
- Significantly upgraded mental health and substance abuse programs
- Has been a great representative of the Flames and Calgary as a whole. Has been active in promoting them.
- Willing to admit mistakes quickly. Examples of this is dumping Neal within a few months of the signing. Yes, the mistake was there, but the fact he isn't like other GMs and fanbases that just kinda stare at the deal and wait it out, he literally addressed it rapidly via Lucic trade. The Bill Peters situation was also addressed very quickly and professionally.
- He will always make you feel like the roster is improved on paper in the places it needs to be improved. (ie: RW... Neal)
- He interviews quite well.

Cons:
- His focus on prospects seemed to mean the quality of the UFA or roster players he acquires at times is a little... lower end?
- His RFA contracts are great value contracts but give some fans the perception that the players become upset with him for future contracts. The only one I've heard of is Tkachuk and he was mad he got bridged vs 8 years and that one can be pointed at the nixxed Kadri trade (which would have given us about 1.5 to 2 mil AAV to give the rumored 8.5x8 or 8x8 Tkachuk wanted after flipping Brown).
- You'll never know what deals he is actually up to and who he actually is seriously looking into. (Because he's looking into everyone)
- Paper is not the same as playing it out on the ice (but as TML fans, I think this is already a given)
- Because he's in on all deals, he's often one of the finalists. It's slightly annoying to hear after a while that we were the second or third best option in a whole bunch of trades of high profile players (ie: Hall, Eichel, Stone etc.)
- Some of the player analysis were strangely questionable or somewhat incomplete/lacking (ie: Neal, Hamonic)
- He hates leaks. Very few rumors get out and in the past, we've wondered if he'd let Conroy wander out there and do a bunch of interviews in a specific way as a smokescreen against his real intentions.
- His talent against strict ownership mandates may mean multiple mediocre seasons. This isn't good as many fans prefer hot or cold vs lukewarm. Unfortunately, it's uncertain if this is going to be resolved by TML ownership (Dubas rumors) or if it will continue and he'll be in a similar or same situation as here.
- Loyal, to a fault. (ie: Gaudreau walking, Bennett saying he had a good relationship and chat with Brad but was surprised to have been traded). I've on occasion also wondered if the Bennett trade had something else outside of his control influence the decision to move him.
- Loyalty wise, I'm also pretty sure that Brad keeps tabs on hockey related social media. When the main Calgary social medias (reddit, HF, CP etc.) all started complaining about the owners being cheap, he literally started one off season interview about how the owners are great and there was no restriction on things like paying a coach and said owners approve spending to the cap etc. I recall it was an unprovoked comment from the interviewer. This makes it slightly hard to figure out if it's his failure or ownership failure/meddling that was the true cause of certain issues. But honestly, maybe it doesn't matter.

Other:
- Navigated not one but two controversies during his tenure. (ie: Wideman and Peters).
- The dragon's den and Boston Pizza jokes never really took hold (His dad is Jim Treliving)
- He has inexplicably puffy and rosy lips. This might be a consequence of him seemingly being a regular or occasional user of chewing tobacco? (IIRC he was seen using it in a box with Burke one year during playoffs)

Thanks for the input.

I actually think Brad Treliving is not a bad hockey mind. I think the biggest asset in a GM is humility, and ability to move forward from a previous wrong decision. Something that you have outlined to be the case with him in the past.

I do wonder what Brad could achieve with a more liberal ownership group/budget, which would almost certainly be the case in Toronto. It could be a good or a bad thing. Maybe the reason Brad was a bridesmaid in some of those trade negotiations for larger names was because he wasn't afforded the opportunity to take on dead money or over valued assets. That will not be the case in Toronto. The GM is given complete control on money in vs. money out when it comes to that stuff. As long as it fits within the cap of course. But again, that is a luxury that can soon become a major problem if not utilized properly.

I think you said it best when you said "The fact that many Flames fans think he's mediocre is a testament to the fact he works hard". To me that kind of speaks volumes to Brad as a GM and Hockey mind. If you don't have a resounding disapproval rating after 10 years of service in 1 place, it clearly means you did something right.

He seems like the clubhouse leader right now for the GM vacancy with my Leafs, and I am growing more and more comfortable with that with each passing day. I don't love it, but I certainly don't hate it.

 

[Dack]

Coleman has 4 seasons left??? JFC.

 

[super6646]

Even frolik ended up being a disaster because it led to the tkachuk bridge.

Again, good riddance. Guy could not manage assets or the cap effective to save his life. Gaudreau and tkachuk needed new contracts in the same season just shouldn’t have ever occurred.

 

[Fig]

Even frolik ended up being a disaster because it led to the tkachuk bridge.

Again, good riddance. Guy could not manage assets or the cap effective to save his life. Gaudreau and tkachuk needed new contracts in the same season just shouldn’t have ever occurred.

What? Unlike many other GMs who left a cap structure with zero wiggle room for options 2-3 seasons after they were turfed, the Flames have many options left for Conroy right now. We can't keep everyone, that's a thing, but it's not like Conroy is sitting on a stack of contracts he needs to move to even put together an appropriate man count roster.

There's a bit of a mess on the chalk board, but I'd easily argue many other GMs like Fenton, Benning, Bergevin, Dubas etc. left rosters with far less maneuverability and clean up required to what Conroy has currently inherited.

Even if you hate what our roster is like right now and the state of our prospects, keep in mind that Treliving is still leaving both in significantly better shape than when he first inherited it. It's fine you say that both aren't in good shape. But seriously speaking that original core and prospect pool he inherited was abysmal.

 

[Mobiandi]

Didn’t Frolik ask for a trade before Tkachuk’s bridge lol

 

[Fig]

Didn’t Frolik ask for a trade before Tkachuk’s bridge lol

I believe he asked for a trade around the same time as the failed Zucker deal. He wanted more ice time after demotions after a bunch of injuries kept him from playing at par.

 

[Iggys Dome]

Thanks for the input.

I actually think Brad Treliving is not a bad hockey mind. I think the biggest asset in a GM is humility, and ability to move forward from a previous wrong decision. Something that you have outlined to be the case with him in the past.

I do wonder what Brad could achieve with a more liberal ownership group/budget, which would almost certainly be the case in Toronto. It could be a good or a bad thing. Maybe the reason Brad was a bridesmaid in some of those trade negotiations for larger names was because he wasn't afforded the opportunity to take on dead money or over valued assets. That will not be the case in Toronto. The GM is given complete control on money in vs. money out when it comes to that stuff. As long as it fits within the cap of course. But again, that is a luxury that can soon become a major problem if not utilized properly.

I think you said it best when you said "The fact that many Flames fans think he's mediocre is a testament to the fact he works hard". To me that kind of speaks volumes to Brad as a GM and Hockey mind. If you don't have a resounding disapproval rating after 10 years of service in 1 place, it clearly means you did something right.

He seems like the clubhouse leader right now for the GM vacancy with my Leafs, and I am growing more and more comfortable with that with each passing day. I don't love it, but I certainly don't hate it.

He’s a good GM. Smart guy. His tenure in Calgary ran its course. A lot of revisionist history as @Fig said. Not perfect (his coaching hires were constantly head scratchers: Gulutzan, Peters, Ward) and his UFA signings were more often than not busts. But drafting greatly improved under him, and he has pretty big balls as far as trades go (Hamilton deal, Tkachuk deal, was always in on big names).

I’m not exactly sad to see him go though, as I said his time here ran its course IMO.

 

[TheHudlinator]

I feel sorry for TO if Treliving is the next choice there. His biggest weakness are the exact same as their roster holes. He can't find a goalie to save his life, his coaches are consistently poor hires, and he struggles to get star players to stay.

He hit on a few late picks but also traded away early picks on bad deals, the fact he is even being considered for another job is baffling to me.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Guess Salim and the other insiders suggesting Treliving was going to Toronto were right

 

[Zirakzigil]

TSN is now reporting its a done deal. He is a good signing by them.

 

[The Masters]

u guys want him back ? lol

 

[Body Checker]

Not too many draft picks for him to trade away. Knies to LA Kings for Arvidsson will be his first trade.

 

[Mobiandi]

Nylander for Hanifin let’s go

 

[hockeywiz542]

TSN's Salim Valji made the following prediction back in December 30, 2022:

The Toronto Maple Leafs target Brad Treliving to become their new General Manager.

Salim Valji: Predictions for Calgary Flames in 2023 | TSN

With the calendar flipping soon, here are five bold predictions for what lies ahead for the Calgary Flames franchise.

www.tsn.ca

Maple Leafs target Brad Treliving to lead their hockey operations

We’ll get the boldest prediction out of the way early on.

Anything can change with a phone call, but at this moment I don’t think Brad Treliving will be back as the team’s general manager, a post he’s held since 2014. Treliving is in the final season of his contract and has not put pen to paper on a new deal, despite Darryl Sutter inking a two-season extension at the start of the season.

The power dynamic in Calgary is different. Sutter is extremely tight with Murray Edwards, the team’s principal owner, and has far more influence on different areas of the organization than most people can imagine. It’s also fair to ask if Sutter and Treliving have been on the same page this season regarding player usage and integrating young players into the lineup.

This Flames group has gotten off to a bit slower of a start than expected and the roster has some flaws, but by and large Treliving has a very good reputation around the league as someone who works extremely hard and is unafraid of being bold on the trade market or in free agency. Treliving has never worked under an owner with the resources and mindset of MLSE, and the allure of building in the league’s biggest market will be tempting for him…even if Edwards does eventually make him a market-value offer.

Current Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas is the final season of his deal as well and should the two sides move on, I think Treliving will immediately become Toronto’s top target as their next head of hockey operations.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[TheHudlinator]

Makes total sense for a team that can't find a goalie and will need a coach to bring in a gm that can't sign a goalie and doesn't know what a good coach is