Post-Game Talk: Training Camp Over. Negativity and infighting stalk the forum like two giant stalking things.

[sting101]

Oh, absolutely. Much as I like Gaunce, Archibald was even better last year.

Stepped straight in on the 3rd line next to Sutter, was an upgrade in every way on Granlund who he replaced, did a great job defensively and on the PK, scored at a 27 point ES pace, and threw hits at nearly double the rate of our next best forward.

The guy was an above-average NHL 3rd liner last year after joining us.

It's absolute insanity that we're spending $8 million to make lateral (at best) moves away from cheap, young, homegrown guys like Archibald and Gaunce who did a very good job last year instead of spending that money on another defender or another skill forward.

Couldn't agree more and to add to the production top6 btm6 discussion Archibald if he could maintain 27pts with his size/strength/toughness is a plus player for this team something Gagner Granlund Eriksson Goldobin havent shown to date that they can be. Goldie deserves some leeway IMO but this is a big year for him to stay out of the NHL trash can.

 

[sting101]

Evan McEneny is on waivers according to CapFriendly.

Such a shame about his knees.

Was an astute pick up by the past regime. many scouting agencies started out thinking he would be a 2nd round pick before he blew his knee in his draft year and after finally creeping his way to the show more set backs. I'm really rooting for the kid

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Gaunce
Juolevi
Virtanen
White
Hodgson
Shinkaruk
Jensen
Schroeder
Smith

ALL first round busts. Show me a team that has botched more first round picks. I’ll wait...

 

[Melvin]

Gaunce
Juolevi
Virtanen
White
Hodgson
Shinkaruk
Jensen
Schroeder
Smith

ALL first round busts. Show me a team that has botched more first round picks. I’ll wait...

Buffalo
Florida
Boston
Dallas

 

[m9]

It's too bad this organization doesn't use the last 20 games of these unintentional tanks to properly evaluate the current roster. They love the "those games didn't matter" thing which is pretty embarrassing.

Watching the last 20 games last year showed up the team they have a 4th line LW in Archibald. Instead they signed two guys to replace him. It showed Sautner is probably better than Pouliot.

The year before it showed Boeser was ready to be a top six NHL player, Green scratched him to start next season.

Of course the worst example was when Matthias/Richardson/Kassian were an excellent 3rd line and instead they punted them all for a washed Higgins and whoever else.

Having those games post-deadline is critical to evaluation going into next year. I just don't get what they look at.

 

[Melvin]

It's too bad this organization doesn't use the last 20 games of these unintentional tanks to properly evaluate the current roster. They love the "those games didn't matter" thing which is pretty embarrassing.

Watching the last 20 games last year showed up the team they have a 4th line LW in Archibald. Instead they signed two guys to replace him. It showed Sautner is probably better than Pouliot.

The year before it showed Boeser was ready to be a top six NHL player, Green scratched him to start next season.

Of course the worst example was when Matthias/Richardson/Kassian were an excellent 3rd line and instead they punted them all for a washed Higgins and whoever else.

Having those games post-deadline is critical to evaluation going into next year. I just don't get what they look at.

It is very bizarre. Sometimes it seems like they don't watch their own games and just cling to whatever evaluations they made before the season started.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Buffalo
Florida
Boston
Dallas

Not even close.

Eichel , Dahlen, middlestat, Nylander, Ristolainen , Myers

Huberdeau, Ekblad, Matheson, Barkov

Mccavoy, Seguin , Pasternak, Subban, Kessel


Seriously what are you talking about?

 

[M2Beezy]

Not even close.

Eichel , Dahlen, middlestat, Nylander, Ristolainen , Myers

Huberdeau, Ekblad, Matheson, Barkov

Mccavoy, Seguin , Pasternak, Subban, Kessel


Seriously what are you talking about?

I cant even tell if this account is serious or not sometimes like you asked who botched more picks, then post proof that other teams made good picks?? Well the Canucks made good picks too in the 1st round but that wasnt your argument bub: Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Etc to counter your silly argument

 

[Melvin]

I cant even tell if this account is serious or not sometimes like you asked who botched more picks, then post proof that other teams made good picks?? Well the Canucks made good picks too in the 1st round but that wasnt your argument bub: Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Etc to counter your silly argument

I mean ... yeah. I thought this was pretty obvious. The question was about the misses, not the hits.

Dallas first rounders 2001-2016:

Jason Bacashihua
Martin Vagner
Mark Fistric
Matt Niskanen
Ivan Vichnevskiy
Scott Glennie (8th overall)
Jack Campbell
Jamie Oleksiak
Radek Faksa
Valeri Nichushkin
Julius Honka
Denis Gurianov
Riley Tufte

 

[Josepho]

Dallas quite easily has the league's worst track record with 1st round picks.

 

[TruGr1t]

Granlund and Schaller should be cut, but they probably won't. It'll be a crime if some of these scrubs make it ahead of Goldobin. Gagner would be cut on any other team in the league (probably from a PTO he signed), but due to our terrible roster he's one of the 13 best forwards.

 

[Fire Benning]

Gaunce
Juolevi
Virtanen
White
Hodgson
Shinkaruk
Jensen
Schroeder
Smith

ALL first round busts. Show me a team that has botched more first round picks. I’ll wait...

Not sure what this has to do with training camp but Buffalo picked Erik Rasmussen, Mika Noronen, Dimitri Kalinin, Barrett Heisten, Artem Kryukov, and Jiri Novotny in the first round in 6 consecutive drafts. They also picked Marek Zangrapan, T.J. Brennan, Dennis Persson, Mikhail Grigorenko..

 

[Melvin]

Not sure what this has to do with training camp but Buffalo picked Erik Rasmussen, Mika Noronen, Dimitri Kalinin, Barrett Heisten, Artem Kryukov, and Jiri Novotny in the first round in 6 consecutive drafts. They also picked Marek Zangrapan, T.J. Brennan, Dennis Persson, Mikhail Grigorenko..

Brennan was technically a 2nd rounder although 31st overall.

Ennis, Kassian, Pysyk, Armia, Grigorenko, Girgenssons isn't exactly an embarassment of riches either as far as first round picks go. Nylander will probably bust as well.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

If Schaller, Beagle and other guy whose name I've already forgotten are better than Archibald, Gaunce and {insert name} it is going to be by the slimmest of margins, maybe 2 points in the standings. So you are paying roughly 7.9M to gain 2 points in the standings over what you could get for about 2M, which is actually probably counter-productive for us in the long run.

That's it in a nutshell. I've never heard of Beagle being anything other than a standup guy and I know he's perfectly good at his position but the fact they went out and spent big money on him shows just how far out of whack their priorities are.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I mean ... yeah. I thought this was pretty obvious. The question was about the misses, not the hits.

Dallas first rounders 2001-2016:

Jason Bacashihua
Martin Vagner
Mark Fistric
Matt Niskanen
Ivan Vichnevskiy
Scott Glennie (8th overall)
Jack Campbell
Jamie Oleksiak
Radek Faksa
Valeri Nichushkin
Julius Honka
Denis Gurianov
Riley Tufte

Welcome to another episode of 'Moving the Goalposts with Johnny Canucker'.

 

[sting101]

I mean ... yeah. I thought this was pretty obvious. The question was about the misses, not the hits.

Dallas first rounders 2001-2016:

Jason Bacashihua
Martin Vagner
Mark Fistric
Matt Niskanen
Ivan Vichnevskiy
Scott Glennie (8th overall)
Jack Campbell
Jamie Oleksiak
Radek Faksa
Valeri Nichushkin
Julius Honka
Denis Gurianov
Riley Tufte

if i'm the GM and my director of scouting comes to me and tries to convince me a goalie, a forward with 3rd line upside and a shut down defenseman are players we should consider with our 1st round pick i'm firing his ass and anyone involved that was trying to convince him that was a good idea.

Half those picks shouldn't have even been considered and you would think after Nichushkin they would have steered clear or Guryanov? another fireable offence.

 

[docbenton]

That's it in a nutshell. I've never heard of Beagle being anything other than a standup guy and I know he's perfectly good at his position but the fact they went out and spent big money on him shows just how far out of whack their priorities are.

I think they've made it clear the signings aren't about winning but surrounding young players with guys with the right attitude and professionalism so that they can develop to their potential. You can argue whether that works or not, but their priorities (help with development, not trying to win) make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Zombotron]

if i'm the GM and my director of scouting comes to me and tries to convince me a goalie, a forward with 3rd line upside and a shut down defenseman are players we should consider with our 1st round pick i'm firing his ass and anyone involved that was trying to convince him that was a good idea.

Are you referring to the triumvirate of Campbell, Oleksiak and Faksa? Tim Bernhardt was the director of scouting for the first two - he was indeed fired, the season before Faksa was drafted.

Bernhardt was hired by Arizona in the same capacity, before leaving this past offseason. The first-round picks made under his watch were Brendan Perlini, Dylan Strome, Nick Merkley, Clayton Keller, Jakob Chychrun, P.O. Joseph and Barrett Hayton.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

That's it in a nutshell. I've never heard of Beagle being anything other than a standup guy and I know he's perfectly good at his position but the fact they went out and spent big money on him shows just how far out of whack their priorities are.

I think the Beagle contract is awful. But I could forgive the signing and see the rationale of it if he was the only guy we signed. He is a solid fourth line center who can penalty kill. Overpaying two other fourth liners is just not defensible imo when we have young players who could probably step into that role at a much lower salary.

 

[Nucker101]

if i'm the GM and my director of scouting comes to me and tries to convince me a goalie, a forward with 3rd line upside and a shut down defenseman are players we should consider with our 1st round pick i'm firing his ass and anyone involved that was trying to convince him that was a good idea.

Half those picks shouldn't have even been considered and you would think after Nichushkin they would have steered clear or Guryanov? another fireable offence.

I agree with most of this post, except the last bit. Not following that logic.

 

[racerjoe]

I think they've made it clear the signings aren't about winning but surrounding young players with guys with the right attitude and professionalism so that they can develop to their potential. You can argue whether that works or not, but their priorities (help with development, not trying to win) make a lot of sense to me.

Ignoring if it was right or wrong for a moment. It has pretty much been confirmed (even 31 thoughts talked about it) that they are still trying to win sooner than later.

So I don't think it is to insulate, but to try and compete. I think this also explains the term given out.

 

[sting101]

Are you referring to the triumvirate of Campbell, Oleksiak and Faksa? Tim Bernhardt was the director of scouting for the first two - he was indeed fired, the season before Faksa was drafted.

Bernhardt was hired by Arizona in the same capacity, before leaving this past offseason. The first-round picks made under his watch were Brendan Perlini, Dylan Strome, Nick Merkley, Clayton Keller, Jakob Chychrun, P.O. Joseph and Barrett Hayton.

cool info.
must have learned what he was doing was trash and made the necessary changes to stay in the capacity.

kinda a shame after he pulled Neal Eriksson and Benn.

If he/they made reasonable choices.

Using my philosophy i outlined they would have pulled Mike Green for Fistric, Cam Fowler for Campbell, JT Miller for Oleksiak and Barzal for Gurianov who were all just the next picks who met the criteria. stupid stupid stupid

 

[RandV]

I haven’t been impressed with Schaller either. Boston fans seem pretty high on him so I’m going to give him a few months in the regular season before making any definitive statements about the kid. So far, he has been a disappointment

Schaller is the same age as Archibald and only has 2 NHL seasons under his belt. A bit better than Archibald but hardly someone who deserves the 'benefit of the doubt' in preseason.

This looks like nothing more than Benning's long standing tradition of paying extra to replace what we already have in the system with another teams player and not getting any significant benefit out of it.

 

[DDRhockey]

Dallas quite easily has the league's worst track record with 1st round picks.

But they got john klingberg in 4th round or so

 

[Melvin]

Schaller is the same age as Archibald and only has 2 NHL seasons under his belt. A bit better than Archibald but hardly someone who deserves the 'benefit of the doubt' in preseason.

This looks like nothing more than Benning's long standing tradition of paying extra to replace what we already have in the system with another teams player and not getting any significant benefit out of it.

Schaller is a New Englander who played for Providence and was roommates with Mark Jankowski. If he's not a Weisbrod acquisition I'll eat my hat.