Post-Game Talk: Training Camp Over. Negativity and infighting stalk the forum like two giant stalking things.

[VanJack]

Gaudette was actually close to making the Canucks, according to Travis Green. But they want to develop him strictly as a center. And with the Canucks determined to try Pettersson at center for at least the first part of the schedule, there was just no room for him down the middle.

He'd have effectively been behind Horvat, Pettersson, Sutter and Beagle. My prediction. With the brutal early season schedule and a slew of road games coming up in October-November, injuries will pile up. I'd expect Gaudette to back by Xmas, because of his overall game.

 

[me2]

I mentioned in another thread, but top prospects like Tolvanen, Mittelstadt, likely Zadina amongst others are all starting in the AHL. Could you imagine if we had Mittelstadt and were sending him to the Comets!?

Mittelstadt going to AHL is like William Nylander going to the AHL, or last year we sent Joulevi last to Finland. I think people would be fine starting a D+2 in the AHL. If he's still there in a year and not showing he's ready or significantly improved from the experience (see Virtanen struggling in the AHL in D+2), then worry.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Echoing what others have said here. If Utica is mediocre this year; it will reflect the sad state of affairs in the organization. Even then, it's always good to throw caution in the wind...Chances are that most of promising prospects will bust.

I remember the early-mid 2000's prospect pool looking promising with the likes Kirill Koltsov, Jesse Schultz, Jason King, Nathan Smith, and Brandon Reid. Was super stoaked at one time. Reid was perhaps the most disappointing. Looked real good in the AHL and thought he would be a regular in 2004. Alas, he absolutely sucked in the NHL.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Isn't that what all you tankers want though?

No, but if you failed to understand our point of view after the first fifty times we explained it, I doubt the fifty-first will make much difference.

 

[DollarAndADream]

With Demko in Utica, the Comets will have a chance to win most games. Not sure if he'll last in the AHL though, as Markstrom or Nilsson are bound to get injured at some point and Thatcher will be up in the NHL. I'm taking his pre-season performance with a grain of salt, considering the severe lack of defense we've had there so far.

Hopefully our AHL prospects can do great, and I think a lot of them will. It's too bad Tryamkin is still over in the KHL, as he'd instantly make our defense better at the NHL level. He'll be a Canuck eventually, at least.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Echoing what others have said here. If Utica is mediocre this year; it will reflect the sad state of affairs in the organization. Even then, it's always good to throw caution in the wind...Chances are that most of promising prospects will bust.

I remember the early-mid 2000's prospect pool looking promising with the likes Kirill Koltsov, Jesse Schultz, Jason King, Nathan Smith, and Brandon Reid. Was super stoaked at one time. Reid was perhaps the most disappointing. Looked real good in the AHL and thought he would be a regular in 2004. Alas, he absolutely sucked in the NHL.

That prospect pool in the early to mid 2000s was putrid by any objective standard. The difference this time around is that it’s not just fans overhyping our prospects. Gaudette, Juolevi, Dahlen and Demko all appear on many top 50 or 100 prospect lists
Will some bust? Sure. But it’s nothing like the list you posted.

 

[Hit the post]

That prospect pool in the early to mid 2000s was putrid by any objective standard.

It was awful but still have these players on the Moose:

Ryan Kesler.........2003/04 & 2004/05
Kevin Bieksa.......2003/04, 2004/05 & 2005/06
Alex Burrows......2003/04, 2004/05 & 2005/06
Kiril Koltsov........2003/04 & 2004/05 [he ended up doing squat in the NHL but had lots of offensive skill as a prospect]
Rick Rypien........2004/05, 2005/06 & 2006/07

 

[WetcoastOrca]

It was awful but still have these players on the Moose:

Ryan Kesler.........2003/04 & 2004/05
Kevin Bieksa.......2003/04, 2004/05 & 2005/06
Alex Burrows......2003/04, 2004/05 & 2005/06
Kiril Koltsov........2003/04 & 2004/05 [he ended up doing squat in the NHL but had lots of offensive skill as a prospect]
Rick Rypien........2004/05, 2005/06 & 2006/07

Agreed. I was really commenting on the players he listed though. They just aren’t comparable to the current group.
We definitely had some good players in the AHL. And only one of those was a first round pick. Kesler. And he was a later first.
Hopefully a few of our lower picks emerge this time as well.

 

[Hit the post]

Agreed. I was really commenting on the players he listed though. They just aren’t comparable to the current group.
We definitely had some good players in the AHL. And only one of those was a first round pick. Kesler. And he was a later first.
Hopefully a few of our lower picks emerge this time as well.

I seem to remember we had Stan Smyl as the head coach for one season on the Moose (his first real head coach job). It really didn't turn out that good (pretty sure that's when Koltsov bolted for home around this time).

 

[Icebreakers]

Our first round drafting record sucks

Since we have drafted Kesler, our only full time top 6 player are Horvat and Boeser.

Thats like 14 drafts with 2 top 6 players in the first round.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I seem to remember we had Stan Smyl as the head coach for one season on the Moose (his first real head coach job). It really didn't turn out that good (pretty sure that's when Koltsov bolted for home around this time).

You know, I was always kind of surprised that Steamer didn't make a good coach. He seemed like one of those guys who understood the game and the effort effort needed to be a pro if you couldn't just get by on some god given skill that most players don't have.

Then I pictured him just standing on the bench yelling "GO! GO! GO!" rather than employing any strategy and it all made more sense.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Presenting the 2014-20 Canucks as the 2010-16 Oilers

Bo Horvat as Taylor Hall
Elias Pettersson as RNH
Brock Boeser as Jordan Eberle
Jake Virtanen as Magnus Paajarvi
Sven Baetschi as David Perron
Brandon Sutter as Ryan Smyth
Nik Goldobin as Nail Yakupov
Brendan Leipsic as Mark Arcobello
Loui Eriksson as Ales Hemsky
Sam Gagner as Sam Gagner
Jay Beagle as Boyd Gordon
Jonathon Dahlen as Anton Lander
Olli Juolevi as Oskar Klefbom
Troy Stecher as Justin Schultz
Erik Gudbranson as Andrew Ference
Chris Tanev as Jeff Petry
Alex Edler as Ladislav Smid
Jacob Markstrom as Devyn Dubnyk.

This is STAGGERINGLY accurate

 

[Melvin]

This is STAGGERINGLY accurate

Man oh man, it's gonna suck when we trade Horvat for Haydn Fleury.

 

[M2Beezy]

Man o man come back from vacay and see what Coach Green is doing what a mess not sure these are the right choices but he is the coach so will give him some space but not a fan right now and not sure what Benning was thinking with this same d core as well this doesnt feel great heading to the season

 

[Fire Benning]

Remember when Frankie said there would be some tough decisions to make because no one looked out of place? Yeah that aged well.

Now the issue is there's too many guys who deserve to be cut.

 

[DL44]

I definitely believe in the very high odds that you'll invent things I said every time you quote me.

I did once say that Gaunce would score 30 points if you played him 19 minutes/game including for 1/3 of the season with the Sedins and played him on the top PP unit all season. And I stand by that, and anyone who disagrees with that statement is frankly an idiot.

Wow

 

[Bevans]

The last 4 Hobey Baker winners went straight to the NHL as impact players. These are developed guys. The last 16 winners either went straight to the NHL or busted.

That Dahlen and Gaudette couldn't make an impact and went to the AHL given their age and experience is REALLY REALLY BAD. Statistically, it means that both are overwhelmingly likely to bust. Guys who make it from their situations don't touch the AHL or touch it very little.

"Touch it very little". Interesting. How much has Gaudette touched it so far?

 

[Nomobo]

Wow

Yeah, he’d be fun at a party, wouldn’t he?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Our first round drafting record sucks

Since we have drafted Kesler, our only full time top 6 player are Horvat and Boeser.

Thats like 14 drafts with 2 top 6 players in the first round.

Agreed. Probably league worst. Petterson will be top 6 and Hughes a top pairing defenseman likely so the last couple of years at least look better. But the time gap between Kesler and Horvat has to be the longest in the NHL.
Just one of the reasons that the team is such a mess right now when you look at what other teams managed to do in the same time period.

 

[Melvin]

Agreed. Probably league worst. Petterson will be top 6 and Hughes a top pairing defenseman likely so the last couple of years at least look better. But the time gap between Kesler and Horvat has to be the longest in the NHL.
Just one of the reasons that the team is such a mess right now when you look at what other teams managed to do in the same time period.

Not really. It's below average but not especially notable. Dallas is one example of another team that had a pretty rough go with first rounders, with pretty much just Radek Faksa to show for since 2005 when they selected Matt Niskanen. They basically haven't drafted a star player in the first round since Jarome Iginla in 1995, who never even played for them.

 

[JT Milker]

Hughes is not “likely” to be a top pairing dman

 

[RandV]

Wow

Umm yeah petty much any NHL scrub could score 30 points from that position, assuming we're not just talking about last seasons 50 point Sedin's.

As things were, Gaunce last season scored 37-4-2-6 playing 13 defensive minutes a night on the 4th line. Pro-rate that to 82 games and you move up to 13 points. Up the minutes to 19 and you're at 19 points. Now flip those 19 minutes playing defensively with checkers to playing offensive ice time with the Sedin's, and you easily make up the difference.

I mean it's kind of pointless and wouldn't ever happen, but technically it's more or less true.

 

[MS]

Wow

Care to explain why you disagree with this statement, if you do?

 

[sting101]

Care to explain why you disagree with this statement, if you do?

How would you ever prove it?

I think it was just the tone he was suprised at?

 

[sting101]

Umm yeah petty much any NHL scrub could score 30 points from that position, assuming we're not just talking about last seasons 50 point Sedin's.

As things were, Gaunce last season scored 37-4-2-6 playing 13 defensive minutes a night on the 4th line. Pro-rate that to 82 games and you move up to 13 points. Up the minutes to 19 and you're at 19 points. Now flip those 19 minutes playing defensively with checkers to playing offensive ice time with the Sedin's, and you easily make up the difference.

I mean it's kind of pointless and wouldn't ever happen, but technically it's more or less true.

Yes and the attendance would look like Florida's.