Post-Game Talk: Training Camp Over. Negativity and infighting stalk the forum like two giant stalking things.

[M2Beezy]

Well Im not allowed to post in the GDT and Im getting warnings for offences i did months ago, so it is what it is, not gonna comment on tonights game guys SORRY

 

[DonnyNucker]

Well Im not allowed to post in the GDT and Im getting warnings for offences i did months ago, so it is what it is, not gonna comment on tonights game guys SORRY

We will see you next game Too many over sensitive people on these boards

 

[M2Beezy]

We will see you next game Too many over sensitive people on these boards

Thanks Donny see you then

 

[forty47seven]

But they got john klingberg in 4th round or so

Dallas later round top 6/ top 4 picks 2001-2016

John Klingberg
Jamie Benn
Reilly Smith
Mike Smith
James Neal
Loui Eriksson
Jussi Jokinen
Trevor Daley


Eight legit NHL players from the 2nd round onwards over 15 years is a pretty crazy success rate. An average team would probably have 2-4 players of that caliber. Terrible in the first round and great in the later rounds.

 

[Melvin]

Dallas later round top 6/ top 4 picks 2001-2016

John Klingberg
Jamie Benn
Reilly Smith
Mike Smith
James Neal
Loui Eriksson
Jussi Jokinen
Trevor Daley


Eight legit NHL players from the 2nd round onwards over 15 years is a pretty crazy success rate. An average team would probably have 2-4 players of that caliber. Terrible in the first round and great in the later rounds.

It is pretty much average. You are looking at 108 selections outside the first round which vary from about 45% chance at an NHLer where Eriksson and Neal were selected (33) to about 10% where Jokinen was selected (192.) Do the math and you are looking at around 24 expected NHL players and they had 21 using 100 games as the benchmark.

 

[forty47seven]

It is pretty much average. You are looking at 108 selections outside the first round which vary from about 45% chance at an NHLer where Eriksson and Neal were selected (33) to about 10% where Jokinen was selected (192.) Do the math and you are looking at around 24 expected NHL players and they had 21 using 100 games as the benchmark.

I'm not sure I really like the 100 game benchmark for being an NHL player. Too many fringe guys who never become assets with real value make the cut. The odds for a top 6/top 4 selection, according to Cullen's definition at least, is something like 11% in the 2nd round and falls to 4-5% by the 4th round. The chances of picking a top 6/ top 4 player outside the 1st round over a three year period is roughly 50-50. Over 16 years, it would be reasonable to expect 3ish players of that caliber. In terms of quality, they were way ahead of the average.

 

[Melvin]

I'm not sure I really like the 100 game benchmark for being an NHL player. Too many fringe guys who never become assets with real value make the cut. The odds for a top 6/top 4 selection, according to Cullen's definition at least, is something like 11% in the 2nd round and falls to 4-5% by the 4th round. The chances of picking a top 6/ top 4 player outside the 1st round over a three year period is roughly 50-50. Over 16 years, it would be reasonable to expect 3ish players of that caliber. In terms of quality, they were way ahead of the average.

I don't want to belabour this because we are way off-topic but no matter how I measure it, they are around expectations. Maybe it's 4-5 expected players and they got 6-7 but it's not "way ahead" and usually behind teams like San Jose and Detroit.

I'll concede though because my only point was in response to JC's claim that the Canucks have had the worst results with first rounders, I think Dallas is clearly worse. Outside the first round though the results are clearly much better, agreed.

And now, back to talking about training camp.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Evan McEneny is on waivers according to CapFriendly.

This had to be expected since he has been in Utica for days and practicing in a red, no contact, jersey. He was signing autographs on Wednesday at the meet and greet the Comets during the "Season Ticket Holder PARTY" in the Aud.

I thought he couldn't officially be sent down until he was game ready so I'm guessing the announcement today must mean he is ready. There has to be a near zero chance of his being claimed since he hasn't played in a game since Novemeber 15th during their 13th game of the season. He missed the rest of the season after only playing 11 games as well as all of this preseason. He has spent all of the time since that game recovering and rehabbing from his second major knee surgery in the past 3 seasons. This will only be the start of what hopefully will be his second full season played since turning pro 4 years ago.

 

[RandV]

Dallas later round top 6/ top 4 picks 2001-2016

John Klingberg
Jamie Benn
Reilly Smith
Mike Smith
James Neal
Loui Eriksson
Jussi Jokinen
Trevor Daley


Eight legit NHL players from the 2nd round onwards over 15 years is a pretty crazy success rate. An average team would probably have 2-4 players of that caliber. Terrible in the first round and great in the later rounds.

When you get guys as good as Klingberg and Benn in the 5th round that's just a luck factor.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

I’m beginning to think that this preseason performance is Benning playing 4D chess with the NHL. For years they screw us with the worst travel schedule which even the previous management of Gillis and Gilman recognized and tried to lobby the NHL about. This brutal travel is thought to contribute to injuries/recovery time. Well obviously it didn’t work so what I think the Canucks are doing is ingenious if Benning is telling certain guys like the bubble guys and guys fighting for bottom six/bottom pairing roles to not go too hard in the preseason to save their healthy bodies for the regular season where there will be many injuries and callups. I suspect the first few guys in line for AHL callups will spend the majority of their season in the NHL. This would better prepare the Canucks to compete in the regular season and would explain why it’s so smart to have extra guys who are NHL level good in the minors like Gaudette, Dahlene, Gaunce, Juolevi etc.

 

[forty47seven]

Any waiver eligible cuts worth claiming expected in the next few days? An upgrade on Pouliot would be nice.

 

[Melvin]

Any waiver eligible cuts worth claiming expected in the next few days? An upgrade on Pouliot would be nice.

Our good friend Matt Bartkowski is available.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Any waiver eligible cuts worth claiming expected in the next few days? An upgrade on Pouliot would be nice.

I think you would have to find another ex Portland Winter Hawk to replace Pouliot. Green is keen to add to the ex Winter Hawk pool, not delete from it.

 

[Intangibos]

Well Im not allowed to post in the GDT and Im getting warnings for offences i did months ago, so it is what it is, not gonna comment on tonights game guys SORRY

Choose your words better then? Any meaningful discussion should include few disagreements, nobody taking offence at anything, and never naturally shift into other related topics.

 

[nuck luck]

I think they've made it clear the signings aren't about winning but surrounding young players with guys with the right attitude and professionalism so that they can develop to their potential. You can argue whether that works or not, but their priorities (help with development, not trying to win) make a lot of sense to me.

Why are you trying to defend stupidity? Who gives a f*ck about what they said or what their intents are? The point is that their methodology is wrong and it's laughable that they, and you, think that they are helping development.

1) how does taking away any experience playing in the NHL help in our players development? There are prospects that are more deserving than the players we acquired for the bottom roles. Give them a chance to learn and play. Instead we destroy their hopes and crush their confidence.

2) Throwing kids to the wolves is putting them on our top lines and making them the significant targets for our opposition's top lines. We should be spending the money to acquire top line players (short term high payments) for our opponents to deflect the attention from our younger guys. Trade these vets at the deadline for picks.

With the Canucks focusing on 4th liners, our opponents job is easier. They focus on our youth...make it harder for our prospects to score and game over before it starts cause we sure as hell know that there'll be no production from our bottom 6 players. Add in the Canucks D bennbrod and linden put together...the season ends before it really begins. How is this productive in any manner?

And yes the draft picks are necessary and will help out, but going back to development, how is the above good for our player's development...psychologically, physically or skill-wise?

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Well Im not allowed to post in the GDT and Im getting warnings for offences i did months ago, so it is what it is, not gonna comment on tonights game guys SORRY

Any thread without m2b ain’t worth a damn anyways.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Canucks seem epically wrong headed about development. I think a big factor is the inability to attract an NHL coach. I think Tortorella speaks the truth, when asked about the Canucks and this has doomed them in this department. Fatal Error.

Does the team have a flu outbreak? Seriously. That's the only acceptable excuse I can think of. Did Green tell them not to hard until the games count? Poor career advice, IMO.

The Coyotes pre season game showed how exposed Petterson is. He is going to get banged up. Whatever. My real beef is that the Canucks are forced to use him because they don't have any other options. They knew they had to rebuild the team before the last trade deadline. WTH?

They can still open strong. IMO, Green needs to show a strong start or why keep him?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

 

[wavaxa2]

Replace the Re with Ta for a more accurate assessment.

 

[geebaan]

The most ironic slogan they could have created for this year.

 

[stampedingviking]

Any thread without m2b ain’t worth a damn anyways.

Surely it's the opposite?

 

[DDRhockey]

the massive losing in pre-season might not carry over to real season though.

 

[RobertKron]

I’m beginning to think that this preseason performance is Benning playing 4D chess with the NHL. For years they screw us with the worst travel schedule which even the previous management of Gillis and Gilman recognized and tried to lobby the NHL about. This brutal travel is thought to contribute to injuries/recovery time. Well obviously it didn’t work so what I think the Canucks are doing is ingenious if Benning is telling certain guys like the bubble guys and guys fighting for bottom six/bottom pairing roles to not go too hard in the preseason to save their healthy bodies for the regular season where there will be many injuries and callups. I suspect the first few guys in line for AHL callups will spend the majority of their season in the NHL. This would better prepare the Canucks to compete in the regular season and would explain why it’s so smart to have extra guys who are NHL level good in the minors like Gaudette, Dahlene, Gaunce, Juolevi etc.

Are you suggesting that Benning just now discovered that it’s a good idea to have organizational depth?

Actually, it’s not surprising at all that this is some kind of new, revolutionary concept for you.

 

[Fire Benning]

Any waiver eligible cuts worth claiming expected in the next few days? An upgrade on Pouliot would be nice.

Justin Holl or Tim Heed might be waived soon. Both RHDs with decent skill sets, would be nice to have some fresh blood on the back end even if it's only 3rd pairing caliber guys.

 

[CanaFan]

the massive losing in pre-season might not carry over to real season though.

For sure. The regular season is usually much easier than preseason, where teams always dress their best line ups and give 100%.