GDT: Training camp 2018 (#teamgrit vs #teamgrind)

[vorbis]

after practice today RBA said Aho was "a little tender" and McGinn "took a shot on the side of the foot" and that since they have too many guys already, no harm in sitting them out.

for me, I agree there's no harm in sitting McGinn, but not so much about Aho. maybe he's a little more than "tender". still, doesn't sound like a big deal.

 

[Novacane]

That was Ferland

It was both. They said Ferland wouldn’t get another game in

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's preseason and teams error on the side of caution at this point. Guys sit out for bumps and bruises now where-as they play through them in the regular season.

 

[DJB]

Any projected lines fellas?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Shouldn’t Necas be afforded the same opportunity to develop on the wing that Aho was given? It’s a lot to ask of a 19 year old Rookie to be the go to Center for all non-Staal related deployment. Fatigue may be a factor as well, Necas has only played 90 games over the past 2 years.

I don’t see them as comparable circumstances. I think the plan with Aho was for him to be a winger, and that plan only recently changed.

Necas is clearly coming over to be a center, and in that case I don’t mind him playing his position. I’m not really convinced the whole “develop into a center in the NHL by not playing center” thing really works anyway, just ask Montreal. I’d prefer the guy play his position and help his adjustment to the league by manipulating the circumstances of his minutes instead.

 

[Lempo]

Unpopular opinion: let’s just play Aho at wing. Everything is F1 F2 F3 in the league nowadays anyway, and no matter how we construct the lines everyone is going to have a rookie/inexperienced player on their line anyway.

Put any of Staal, Necas, or Wallmark in between Aho and TT and call it a day. The centers will suck anyway, don’t let this issue take away your best winger too.

It's not unpopular. I have been wary of the Aho@center thing all the time it's been up, and can't just not help thinking of Mikael Granlund who waded years as a so-so ~40 points center while he could've been the really good 65< points winger he is for the whole time.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Unpopular opinion: let’s just play Aho at wing. Everything is F1 F2 F3 in the league nowadays anyway, and no matter how we construct the lines everyone is going to have a rookie/inexperienced player on their line anyway.

Put any of Staal, Necas, or Wallmark in between Aho and TT and call it a day. The centers will suck anyway, don’t let this issue take away your best winger too.

If it doesn't matter because it's all just F1, F2, F3, then why does it matter where Aho plays?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Looking at who will start the season on opening night, I think there are only 2 guys that also were on the roster opening night just 3 season's ago (15/16): Faulk and Staal. Talk about roster turn-over.

Rask was on the roster opening night, but is injured and won't be in the line-up this season.
Slavin-Pesce played most of the season, but were early season call-ups due to injury.
PDG played 40ish games, but I "think" he was also a mid season callup.

F: Skinner, E. Staal, Versteeg, Lindholm, Nordstrom, Nestrasil, Gerbe, McClemment, Malone all gone.
D: Hainsey, Hanifin, Liles, Wizniewski, Murphy all gone
G: Ward, Lack both gone.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Any projected lines fellas?

Hard to say as we don't know who our centers will be.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Any projected lines fellas?

Not really, for the forwards anyway. Brindy has straight out said not to take too much stock into who’s playing with who at this point. I don’t think any lines have survived more than a game.

Defensive pairings should shake out like this, at least to start.

Slavin-Hamilton
De Haan-Faulk
Fleury-Pesce/TVR

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not really, for the forwards anyway. Brindy has straight out said not to take too much stock into who’s playing with who at this point. I don’t think any lines have survived more than a game.

Defensive pairings should shake out like this, at least to start.

Slavin-Hamilton
De Haan-Faulk
Fleury-Faulk/TVR

Pesce?

 

[WhiteTrashAmerican]

Not really, for the forwards anyway. Brindy has straight out said not to take too much stock into who’s playing with who at this point. I don’t think any lines have survived more than a game.

Defensive pairings should shake out like this, at least to start.

Slavin-Hamilton
De Haan-Faulk
Fleury-Faulk/TVR

We are trying to trade a Faulk, not clone him!

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Pesce?

We are trying to trade a Faulk, not clone him!

I am an idiot.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

If it doesn't matter because it's all just F1, F2, F3, then why does it matter where Aho plays?

I would contend that things being F1, F2, and F3, as well as other changing systematic themes in the league, level out the playing field a little more with regard to the impact wingers have on the game vs centers.

That said, they are still different positions. And if Aho is materially worse at center, then we shouldn’t play him there.

Combining those points, I think the league is changing in such a way that you don’t need your best, most skilled, most cerebral players to be centers to make a difference. Aho’s not a center, so why try to neutralize him by forcing him into a position he doesn’t need to play in in order to make an impact on the game?

 

[A Star is Burns]

That's all fair enough. I think he's got a lot of qualities to be a good center, but he lacks experience. They've mentioned they'll move him back to wing if needed, and I agree if he's considerably worse at center, we should. I don't know how quickly we'll be able to make that determination, considering it's only been two preseason games, a handful of meaningless and/or international games, and given the fact that he's been a slow starter so far in his career.

 

[DJB]

Hmm . Thanks guys.

I'm mostly interested to see where Necas goes. He has undeniable talent

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I would contend that things being F1, F2, and F3, as well as other changing systematic themes in the league, level out the playing field a little more with regard to the impact wingers have on the game vs centers.

That said, they are still different positions. And if Aho is materially worse at center, then we shouldn’t play him there.

Combining those points, I think the league is changing in such a way that you don’t need your best, most skilled, most cerebral players to be centers to make a difference. Aho’s not a center, so why try to neutralize him by forcing him into a position he doesn’t need to play in in order to make an impact on the game?

To use an analogy, say you’re running a football team in Madden. You have a great player but you can only play him at one position. Would you prefer a 99 OA safety? Or a 94 OA quarterback? Most would prefer the quarterback, because they have a greater impact on the game.

My point with the F1 F2 F3 comment is that the difference between centers and wingers in value is much closer to, say, a RB vs. a WR, or a DE vs. an OLB. It doesn’t mean they aren’t different positions (which means a player might be materially better at one than the other), it just means they have similar impacts on the game, so you wouldn’t force a guy out of position if it meant bumping him from a 99 to a 94.

Pushing it back to this example, I’m saying I’d prefer the opposite of my initial choice - I’d prefer the 99 OA winger to the 94 OA center. They are close enough positionally in value to the team that I’d prefer the better one. So in this case, I’d prefer Aho at 100% at wing, vs. a watered down version at center

 

[tarheelhockey]

Beansy, Goatsy, Bishy, and Carricksy all cut. Tough to see the boys go.

Cajkovskysksy still standing.

 

[bluedevil58]

Cajkovskysksy still standing.

Wasn't that impressed with him last game.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Cajkovskysksy still standing.

He's a really wonky skater. Looks like he's on the edge of out of control all the time. He's aggressive, confident and not afraid to be physical though.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Cajkovskysksy still standing.

Cajkovsky-er, as he’s known in the dressing room.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Cajkovsky-er, as he’s known in the dressing room.

Sure it's not Cajer? or even Cajey?

 

[geehaad]

I’d prefer the 99 OA winger to the 94 OA center.

It seems like we keep coming back to this point, which absolutely cannot be ignored: CAR is not making this decision in a vacuum...they have to account for the strengths and weaknesses across their roster.

Your scenario doesn't take into account the OA value of other wingers and centers. If your other wingers are 90, 86, 80, 77, 75, 73, 71, 65 and your centers are 85, 67, and 55 (read: the wingers are a much stronger group than the centers), then you move your 99OA winger into a 94OA center.

 

[Lempo]

Sure it's not Cajer? or even Cajey?

 

[SaskCanesFan]

It seems like we keep coming back to this point, which absolutely cannot be ignored: CAR is not making this decision in a vacuum...they have to account for the strengths and weaknesses across their roster.

Your scenario doesn't take into account the OA value of other wingers and centers. If your other wingers are 90, 86, 80, 77, 75, 73, 71, 65 and your centers are 85, 67, and 55 (read: the wingers are a much stronger group than the centers), then you move your 99OA winger into a 94OA center.

Bingo. Plus how do we know Aho isn't a C? He played the World Juniors there, finished last year there, played the World Championship there. That's not enough of a sample, yet 2 preseason games with random linemates is? I feel like I'm arguing to put Lindholm in the middle again from 3 years ago.

Aho has a lot of the qualities of a C, and is more than smart enough to figure things out. Give him time