Speculation: Trading Up Part II: The Midnight Barkov

[Jim Bob]

After a good night's sleep, a few observations:

I think that the teams in the top-4 probably aren't taking offers from the sounds of it, but we made offers anyways. Devine's line "...to do it...to move up at this point will hurt our depth going forward". That actually sounds like us offering something pretty generous (3-4 high end assets), and the top teams still suggesting more.

More importantly, "the teams at 3,4,5 all want a player". Call me crazy, but I think that's Barkov. So, if, hypothetically, Tampa takes Barkov, I think conversations could possibly be had about Drouin with Nashville. They need scoring, but they seem more interested in the center position. Would you offer any of our young centers for Drouin?

Nashville wanting Barkov and only really being interested in moving back if he's off the board makes plenty of sense to me.

Grigorenko & 8 for 4?

 

[tmack224]

I would definitely take Stastny for Miller. The only thing after that is what do we do with our overload at Center?

Stastny, Hodgson, Grigorenko, Larsson, Girgensons

I think If this deal happened before the draft I would use Grigorenko and the 16th to move up in the draft or to trade for a young Winger.

Does anyone know if Girgensons will be a wing or center? I have heard both.

 

[Gabrielor]

Nashville wanting Barkov and only really being interested in moving back if he's off the board makes plenty of sense to me.

Grigorenko & 8 for 4?

I think the talk Mac has been covered solidly (spearheaded by me). Regarding Drouin, it certainly gives us a high-octane offensive weapon. I guess it depends on the cost. I would've contended that moving Grigs for a shot at Mac was worth it, but moving Grigs for Drouin? I'm not as sold on that one. We would probably have to move Hodgson or Grigs to get a shot at him though, unless Darcy sells the holy-christ out of Vanek.

 

[gallagt01]

I would definitely take Stastny for Miller. The only thing after that is what do we do with our overload at Center?

Stastny, Hodgson, Grigorenko, Larsson, Girgensons

I think If this deal happened before the draft I would use Grigorenko and the 16th to move up in the draft or to trade for a young Winger.

Does anyone know if Girgensons will be a wing or center? I have heard both.

Agreed that Miller for Stastny makes some sense for Regier. Miller won't be returning much in terms of futures, so adding a veteran center to help with the development of Grigorenko/Hodgson/etc. wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

I wouldn't trade any of Buffalo's young centers if a trade for Stastny were completed. There's nothing wrong with generating some roster competition. Depth is good.

As for Girgensons, he played mostly wing in Rochester this year, but he and his agent said he'd prefer to play center going forward.

 

[TehDoak]

I would definitely take Stastny for Miller. The only thing after that is what do we do with our overload at Center?

Stastny, Hodgson, Grigorenko, Larsson, Girgensons

I think If this deal happened before the draft I would use Grigorenko and the 16th to move up in the draft or to trade for a young Winger.

Does anyone know if Girgensons will be a wing or center? I have heard both.

Grigs, imho, has a ticket punched to the AHL already. Unless he comes to camp and blows the doors off, he needs some time in the A.

 

[Beerz]

Grigs, imho, has a ticket punched to the AHL already. Unless he comes to camp and blows the doors off, he needs some time in the A.

Grigs has to go back to juniors...if he doesnt stay with Sabres

 

[joshjull]

I would definitely take Stastny for Miller. The only thing after that is what do we do with our overload at Center?

Stastny, Hodgson, Grigorenko, Larsson, Girgensons

I think If this deal happened before the draft I would use Grigorenko and the 16th to move up in the draft or to trade for a young Winger.

Does anyone know if Girgensons will be a wing or center? I have heard both.

It wouldn't say overloaded. In that group their is one proven top 6 center (Stastny) and one starting on that path (Hosgson). The rest are all unproven kids. To me being overloaded at center means you have more NHL centers than spots forcing one to play wing. Like Philly was a few years ago with Briere, Richards, Carter and Giroux.

 

[Deevo]

After a good night's sleep, a few observations:

I think that the teams in the top-4 probably aren't taking offers from the sounds of it, but we made offers anyways. Devine's line "...to do it...to move up at this point will hurt our depth going forward". That actually sounds like us offering something pretty generous (3-4 high end assets), and the top teams still suggesting more.

More importantly, "the teams at 3,4,5 all want a player". Call me crazy, but I think that's Barkov. So, if, hypothetically, Tampa takes Barkov, I think conversations could possibly be had about Drouin with Nashville. They need scoring, but they seem more interested in the center position. Would you offer any of our young centers for Drouin?

YEP. I would do Grigorenko and 8th overall - but I imagine others would find that to be too much of an over payment. I really like Drouin.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I would also approve of a Miller - Stastny deal, if in fact Miller wants out. This is how it would happen...

-Colorado takes MacKinnon at #1 and therefore sees Stastny as an extra C. They probably don't plan on re-signing him anyway so they're probably thinking about eventually getting something for him in return.

-Buffalo waits until their #8 selection, and Monahan and Lindholm both get taken so they settle for Ristolainen or Horvat. Buffalo then still has a temporary hole at top-two C, not knowing how Grigs will develop. Larsson and Girgensons are both bottom six Cs or LWs and Ennis should go back to LW anyway, so getting Stastny as a one year experiment does not create a logjam.

-After the draft Buffalo and Colorado work it out, with Col still uncertain about Varlamov and Buf still uncertain about Grigorenko, it makes sense with little risk (both players with only one year remaining), and if those players produce or Varlamov/Grigs don't, there is the chance of being able to re-sign the vets. Either way each team gets an extra season to evaluate a possible weakness.

 

[TehDoak]

Grigs has to go back to juniors...if he doesnt stay with Sabres

The AHL age limit is 19 at the start of the season. He is 19 currently so he's eligible for the AHL

 

[tmack224]

YEP. I would do Grigorenko and 8th overall - but I imagine others would find that to be too much of an over payment. I really like Drouin.

I'm in the same boat. I want Drouin. If it means we move Grigorenko tho Im not sure moving the 8th pick is the right way to go. It will really depend on where he falls. I actually have a feeling Drouin will go number 1. Colorado is stacked down the middle but needs scoring help on the outside.

If Colorado takes Mack, I think Florida goes Barkov, then Tampa takes Jones. If this is the scenario I think we need to go after that 4th pick and grab him

 

[Gabrielor]

Mac/Jones very,very likely go 1-2 in whatever order. Based on Darcy's comments, the question seems to be where Barkov will go, leaving Drouin as sort of this question mark with regards to draft position. If Tampa loves the Russian, he could in theory fall as far as 5.

 

[gallagt01]

Just a matter of weeks ago I was clamoring for Regier to make a serious pitch to the Avs or make a series of trades to eventually land the top pick in the draft and nab Mackinnon.

I still support that notion, but after some consideration, Buffalo's future is not nearly as bad as I had originally suggested without that proverbial "franchise player."

Grigorenko, Hodgson, Ennis, Armia, Girgensons, Larsson, Myers, Pysyk, McCabe, McNabb, Foligno, no. 8 and no. 16 combine to create a very nice stable of young players.

There are nine first rounders in that group. It certainly has the size, speed, physicality and character qualities to do some damage if developed properly.

I'm willing to let things unfold naturally - that is, allow the aforementioned group to mature and develop together. Who knows, maybe you're in the running for Ekblad next year (in which case you're just adding another impressive name to the above list).

Or maybe Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno and Myers take that next step. Or perhaps Grigorenko, Armia, Girgensons, Larsson and Pysyk take necessary steps forward.

 

[tmack224]

Draft day Scenario:

Colorado take Mack first overall

Florida takes Barkov at number 2

**Buffalo and Colorado announce a trade**
Miller for Stastny

Tampa takes Jones

**Nashville has traded the 4th overall pick to Buffalo for Grigorenko, Sekera, and 16th overall**

Buffalo takes Drouin


Vanek resigns

Gives us a ton of options to take the BPA at 8

Vanek-Hodgson-Drouin
Lieno-Stastny-Ott
Ennis-Foligno-Stafford

Gives Girgensons and Larsson more time to develop

 

[unte93]

if Barkov goes top3 it could get really interessting

1) trade Hodgson + 16 for the 4th
2) trade Miller for Stastny

 

[gallagt01]

The AHL age limit is 19 at the start of the season. He is 19 currently so he's eligible for the AHL

I'm fairly certain CHL players can't play in the AHL until they're 20.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I don't see why Buffalo would complete that trade with Col before seeing if Monahan/Lindholm fall to them. If Buffalo did trade up and had a choice between Drouin/Monahan/Lindholm, I'd be pretty shaky about taking the winger. Trading Grigorenko, not knowing how Stastny will pan out as a long-term option, and not selecting another C to replace Grigorenko or Stastny if he's mediocre (good chance of that btw), does not make sense to me.

 

[tmack224]

I'm fairly certain CHL players can't play in the AHL until they're 20.

You are correct. Any player that is on a CHL team can not play in the AHL until they turn 20. Only way around it is for guys who play in Europe. They can come right over and play.

 

[tmack224]

I don't see why Buffalo would complete that trade with Col before seeing if Monahan/Lindholm fall to them. If Buffalo did trade up and had a choice between Drouin/Monahan/Lindholm, I'd be pretty shaky about taking the winger. Trading Grigorenko, not knowing how Stastny will pan out as a long-term option, and not selecting another C to replace Grigorenko or Stastny if he's mediocre (good chance of that btw), does not make sense to me.

In my opinion Drouin is head shoulders above Monahan and Lindolm. If you have a shot at him you take it. Then possibly still get one of the 2 at 8. Thats why I wouldnt trade 8. If they arnt there then you can trade back a little and pick up Domi possibly. Either way I prolly like Drouin more then most so i dont blame you for not wanting to make the move.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

I Agree, but I think he is working Sakic & Roy in Colorado...

Matt Duchene for Grigo + 16th (is that enough? 8th instead?)... Duchene and Hodgson are buds, could have great chemistry & Grigo is Roy's boy all day long!!! Fast tracks our retool a bit, and since COL is taking MacKinnon their pivot depth is going to be fine (Stastny, RoR, Grigo, Mac, etc...)

Then we deal either Vanek or Miller to PHI for Couts...

Let's go in a different direction and just say ******* the 2013 draft altogether!!!!!!

1. 8th & Grigs & one of our seconds for Duchene (age - 22) - overpayment, sure but we get a #1 center.

2. 16th & Miller & Sekera & one of our seconds & 50% of Miller's salary for Couturier (Age - 20) (I looked the spelling up Tip!) & Read (age - 27). Overpayment, sure but we get our shutdown, two way center.

3. Sign Vanek to extension, he'd have to be happy after these two moves.

The cupboard stays stacked, except for Grigs.

Vanek - Duchene - Stafford (Yuck)
Ennis - Hodgson - Ott/Foligno
Foligno/Ott - Couturier - Read
Flynn -??? - Kaleta

Leino, Gerbe, Porter, Scott

Gives us Armia, Girgs, Larson, Tropp, etc to fill out the roster this year and next, solid down the middle, decent size throughout each line. Doesn't cost us the farm but get's us a few years advanced from drafting these guys.

 

[TehDoak]

I'm fairly certain CHL players can't play in the AHL until they're 20.

You are correct. Any player that is on a CHL team can not play in the AHL until they turn 20. Only way around it is for guys who play in Europe. They can come right over and play.

Whoops, was certain it was 19.

 

[tmack224]

Let's go in a different direction and just say ******* the 2013 draft altogether!!!!!!

1. 8th & Grigs & one of our seconds for Duchene (age - 22) - overpayment, sure but we get a #1 center.

2. 16th & Miller & Sekera & one of our seconds & 50% of Miller's salary for Couturier (Age - 20) (I looked the spelling up Tip!) & Read (age - 27). Overpayment, sure but we get our shutdown, two way center.

3. Sign Vanek to extension, he'd have to be happy after these two moves.

The cupboard stays stacked, except for Grigs.

Vanek - Duchene - Stafford (Yuck)
Ennis - Hodgson - Ott/Foligno
Foligno/Ott - Couturier - Read
Flynn -??? - Kaleta

Leino, Gerbe, Porter, Scott

Gives us Armia, Girgs, Larson, Tropp, etc to fill out the roster this year and next, solid down the middle, decent size throughout each line. Doesn't cost us the farm but get's us a few years advanced from drafting these guys.

I dont think this is the draft to trade out of. Too much talent all around to just trade the picks.

 

[tsujimoto74]

In my opinion Drouin is head shoulders above Monahan and Lindolm. If you have a shot at him you take it. Then possibly still get one of the 2 at 8. Thats why I wouldnt trade 8. If they arnt there then you can trade back a little and pick up Domi possibly. Either way I prolly like Drouin more then most so i dont blame you for not wanting to make the move.

I'm with this. Monahan and Lindholm are both great prospects, but Drouin has the potential to be a game-breaking offensive player in a way I don't think they do. The only 2 forwards I would take over him in this draft are MacKinnon and Barkov (who are already off the board in the fantasy scenario being discussed). And then if one of the centers fell to 8, it'd just be icing on the cake. We'd be looking at a young forward core of:

Drouin-Hodgson-Armia
Ennis-Monahan/Lindholm-Larsson
Foligno-Girgensons-Flynn
Catenacci-Kea-Tropp

Obviously not every single prospect is going to pan out, but that looks like a pretty deep pool of talent with a nice mix of offensive skill and grit and defense. If we had that as a basis, I think any leftover spots (where someone busted) could probably be filled in trade or FA pretty easily, because we'd be set at center at least.

 

[Beerz]

I'm with this. Monahan and Lindholm are both great prospects, but Drouin has the potential to be a game-breaking offensive player in a way I don't think they do. The only 2 forwards I would take over him in this draft are MacKinnon and Barkov (who are already off the board in the fantasy scenario being discussed). And then if one of the centers fell to 8, it'd just be icing on the cake. We'd be looking at a young forward core of:

Drouin-Hodgson-Armia
Ennis-Monahan/Lindholm-Larsson
Foligno-Girgensons-Flynn
Catenacci-Kea-Tropp

Obviously not every single prospect is going to pan out, but that looks like a pretty deep pool of talent with a nice mix of offensive skill and grit and defense. If we had that as a basis, I think any leftover spots (where someone busted) could probably be filled in trade or FA pretty easily, because we'd be set at center at least.

That would be pretty sick.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

I dont think this is the draft to trade out of. Too much talent all around to just trade the picks.

but, but, but....I agree about the deep draft but we are switching our picks to 20 & 22 year olds, guys just breaking into the league but who have already put a little mark in the league, ie proven themselves.

Rebuild or retool real quick?