Speculation: Trading Up Part II: The Midnight Barkov

[Selanne00008]

If we stand pat at 8 and take Nurse this board will blow. The anger is coming back to me after winning 8 out of our last 12 dammit!

Its even more frustrating that the Avs WOULD listen if we got into the top 4, but the top 4 won't budge. Frustrating, but nothing else Darcy can do except stay at 8 or maybe move up to garauntee lindholm/Monahan. At this point i'd almost rather just draft risto or zadarov and then move up for horvat.

 

[gallagt01]

That's what Darcy is saying is the issue: these teams have a player they want, but aren't willing to entertain the idea of moving down unless that player is gone. At that point, the teams know what they can get for their pick because the Sabres and other teams have likely indicated what they'd move, and they can make the decision about taking the pick or trading it.

So, in essence, should Barkov be the Canes' target, and he's gone by four, Regier should be able to slide into the fifth spot?

 

[Selanne00008]

He did bring into question smoke-and-mirrors and bs'ing though. I wonder how many GM's who 'refused' deals might take a second look before/on draft day.

Very True.

The same issue could happen if both the team we are trying to trade with and our guy is the exact same. If lets say Barkov is our guy and he is gone at #3 then our offer to Nashville could potentially be off the table if we don't think Drouin is worth it. Come crunch time we aren't trading for a pick, we are trading for a specific player on the board.

 

[Gabrielor]

Very True.

The same issue could happen if both the team we are trying to trade with and our guy is the exact same. If lets say Barkov is our guy and he is gone at #3 then our offer to Nashville could potentially be off the table if we don't think Drouin is worth it. Come crunch time we aren't trading for a pick, we are trading for a specific player on the board.

Of the top-4, I think Drouin is the 'most-available' one pertaining to trade-ups. How available 'most-available' truly is can only be speculated, but still sounds very slim. Although, his wording yesterday indicated to me that 4 or 5 teams really want Barkov to fall to them.

 

[stokes84]

So, in essence, should Barkov be the Canes' target, and he's gone by four, Regier should be able to slide into the fifth spot?

The Canes are interesting. Who do they hope falls? Jones? I think everyone may be hoping that TB takes the Russian. I don't think they'd be in the group that is really wanting a center, because if they were, you'd have to think they'd be locked into Lindholm.

 

[Selanne00008]

Of the top-4, I think Drouin is the 'most-available' one pertaining to trade-ups. How available 'most-available' truly is can only be speculated, but still sounds very slim. Although, his wording yesterday indicated to me that 4 or 5 teams really want Barkov to fall to them.

In my opinion its MacK, Barkov then everyone else

 

[TehDoak]

Lindholm is their 6th guy.

I wonder if Carolina has interest in for 5th overall? If there is one team with pressure to win now, it's carolina and rutherford. They have their #1/#2 centers already established with a gigantic need on D.

 

[EichHart]

Of the top-4, I think Drouin is the 'most-available' one pertaining to trade-ups. How available 'most-available' truly is can only be speculated, but still sounds very slim. Although, his wording yesterday indicated to me that 4 or 5 teams really want Barkov to fall to them.

Totally disagree, Drouin would of went 1st overall last year. The guy is number 1 talent in any other draft. Mackenzie stated in his interview of his top 10 in April that 4 out of the 10 teams he asked have Drouin rated as there number one overall player.

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

I wonder if Carolina has interest in for 5th overall? If there is one team with pressure to win now, it's carolina and rutherford. They have their #1/#2 centers already established with a gigantic need on D.

Interet in? Ehrhoff? Myers? I think moving ehrhoff to caralina could make sense

 

[Deevo]

Interet in? Ehrhoff? Myers? I think moving ehrhoff to caralina could make sense

I really don't think moving either of those guys for 3 draft positions makes sense at all. Ehrhoff is our best d-man, Myers could be our best d-man, and they are both under contract long term. It's back tracking.

 

[Gabrielor]

Totally disagree, Drouin would of went 1st overall last year. The guy is number 1 talent in any other draft. Mackenzie stated in his interview of his top 10 in April that 4 out of the 10 teams he asked have Drouin rated as there number one overall player.

I don't know...there seems to be a love this year for the center depth, the Sabres included, even after last year.

 

[stokes84]

I really don't think moving either of those guys for 3 draft positions makes sense at all. Ehrhoff is our best d-man, Myers could be our best d-man, and they are both under contract long term. It's back tracking.

Ehrhoff is going to be on the downward slide by the time this team is ready. Moving him now makes perfect sense. This should all be about 3 or 4 years from now. All considerations for helping next year at the expense of the future should be out the window.

 

[Deevo]

Ehrhoff is going to be on the downward slide by the time this team is ready. Moving him now makes perfect sense. This should all be about 3 or 4 years from now. All considerations for helping next year at the expense of the future should be out the window.

If this deal does not include our 8th pick - I'm in. But with that in the deal it's a huge over payment.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

If we move up one would suspect Myers + is a piece Tampa and Carolina would be interested it.

 

[sonnEbunny]

The Canes are interesting. Who do they hope falls? Jones? I think everyone may be hoping that TB takes the Russian. I don't think they'd be in the group that is really wanting a center, because if they were, you'd have to think they'd be locked into Lindholm.

Are you talking about the canes or the lightening not being locked into a center? Personally, I don't think either of them are but I doubt TB is targeting Lindholm with the #3 pick if that is what you were saying. I could see Lindholm being the guy at center if you were referring to Carolina but I still think they will be hoping for Barkov if they go center. So to answer the question I think they are semi-realistically hoping for Barkov but I could almost guarantee they would jump on Jones if he were available at 5.

 

[stokes84]

If this deal does not include our 8th pick - I'm in. But with that in the deal it's a huge over payment.

I agree it is steep overpayment. 16 + Ehrhoff/Rej for 5, or try to do 38 + 16 for 10-12, then 10-12 + Hoff/Rej.

Take Lindholm at 5, Nurse/Risto at 8. Win.

 

[stokes84]

Are you talking about the canes or the lightening not being locked into a center? Personally, I don't think either of them are but I doubt TB is targeting Lindholm with the #3 pick if that is what you were saying. I could see Lindholm being the guy at center if you were referring to Carolina but I still think they will be hoping for Barkov if they go center. So to answer the question I think they are semi-realistically hoping for Barkov but I could almost guarantee they would jump on Jones if he were available at 5.

I guess that wasn't clear. The entire post was about Carolina and what they were thinking.

 

[Reddawg]

Totally disagree, Drouin would of went 1st overall last year. The guy is number 1 talent in any other draft. Mackenzie stated in his interview of his top 10 in April that 4 out of the 10 teams he asked have Drouin rated as there number one overall player.

Shades of Kyle Turris vs Patrick Kane 5 years ago.

 

[sonnEbunny]

I guess that wasn't clear. The entire post was about Carolina and what they were thinking.

I was a bit confused, I thought you were referring to TB. I am willing to bet that Carolina is hoping that one of the "big 4" will be there at 5. IMO if none Mack, Drouin, Jones or Barkov are there I think they would be more open to trade talks. I'm sure they also have interest in Nichushkin and Lindholm or maybe a defenseman if the offers aren't good enough. They are weaker on D so if the "big 4" go 1-4 Buffalo may be able to add in some immediate help for and convince them that they will also be able to pick up a very good defensive prospect at 8.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I see Carolina as the only trade option. They're the only team not in need of a C, and have a need worth trading down for (d-man). It's a draft day trade scenario that depends on who goes 1-4, and whether Car would like any roster D-man from Buffalo enough to flip #5 and #8. Car has to worry about the cap too, so Myers might not work for them. If they do want Myers, or Sekera or Ehrhoff, Car would have to add (probably their #35 pick).

 

[sonnEbunny]

I see Carolina as the only trade option. They're the only team not in need of a C, and have a need worth trading down for (d-man). It's a draft day trade scenario that depends on who goes 1-4, and whether Car would like any roster D-man from Buffalo enough to flip #5 and #8. Car has to worry about the cap too, so Myers might not work for them. If they do want Myers, or Sekera or Ehrhoff, Car would have to add (probably their #35 pick).

I would probably trade Ehrhoff+8 for 5+35, Buffalo picks up Lindholm at 5 then at 16 I hope they would be able to pick up Risto, Nurse, Zadorov, Pulock, Mantha, Wennberg or Domi. If buffalo had picks 35, 38, 52 and 69 I wouldn't be surprised to see a trade into the first round to select another player that they like while trying to keep as many of the second rounders as possible. Our prospect pool would get much much deeper and we also have some top end talent in it. The more depth we have the less rushed players will be and it will give them a chance to fully develop, this seems like a good recipe for success to me.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

.

B. If Drew Stafford is a very good 2nd liner then I'm the ****ing pope.

Since his rookie season, Drew Stafford is 22nd in goals by a RW and 32nd in goals per game for a RW. He also kills penalties and is underrated defensively. You think he isn't a 2nd liner?

Please give me a list of 60 RWers who are consistent 20 goal/50 point scorers.

Trying to use Drew Stafford as an example of a bad 1st round pick is a pretty terrible analogy.Stafford has the 6th most goals from the 04 draft. Again, he is quite easily a very good 2nd line RWer.

 

[Paxon]

Just to make it clear to those still mad, Darcy did try to trade up with offers of roster players, prospects, and picks (including the 16th, which I took to mean 8th+16th based on context). Now, maybe some people wouldn't be satisfied with where he stopped in terms of adding value to the deal, but at the end of the day he clearly is taking trading up seriously and teams just aren't going to move unless and until the guy(s) they covet are already gone when they go to pick.

 

[BananaSquad]

If we move up one would suspect Myers + is a piece Tampa and Carolina would be interested it.

Christ trading Myers is going to make everyone regret it for years

 

[Moskau]

Shades of Kyle Turris vs Patrick Kane 5 years ago.

Turris was drafted out of a Junior-2 league. It's closer to Ovechkin and Malkin where many scouts felt that Malkin closed the gap between the two as the season went on and some teams had Malkin as their #1 guy. If MacKinnon didn't have such an impressive Memorial Cup he and Drouin would as close as they were just a few months ago.