Speculation: Trading Up Part II: The Midnight Barkov

[Afinogretzky]

Sorry people, nothing to see here...move along now...

How about instead of posting those cute little pictures, you tell me why Regier is a great drafter, and why I should be excited about picking at number 8.

 

[Zip15]

One was hired in 2010. The other in 2006. They don't have almost 2 decades of sucking to their name.

So now we're moving the goalposts.

 

[Paxon]

You seem like a smart guy with a billion posts on this board. So I have no ****ing idea who you're trying to fool with that comment. His 1st round drafting record is absolutely horrific. If anything, his late round pulls have been very good (Miller, Max, Campbell, etc). There isn't a single 1st line player or all-star amongst his 1st round selections.

His 1st round drafting record with Devine and the current staff set-up has been very good. I don't wanna hear about Myers' struggles, he was a good pick at #12. What's been his bad first round pick with Devine in charge of scouting? Make no mistake, drafting is driven by the scouting department.

 

[Gabrielor]

Edit: nvm

 

[Afinogretzky]

A red herring in the discussion of what those guys have done outside the top-5. According to that poster, a GM gets no credit for a top-5 "softball" pick that a "monkey" could make.

I don't give the GMs responsible for picking Crosby, Tavares, or Stamkos credit to you? The money picks are in the teens and twenties. Karlsson, Giroux, Parise, Kopitar, etc. Darcy has none of those.

 

[Zip15]

How about instead of posting those cute little pictures, you tell me why Regier is a great drafter, and why I should be excited about picking at number 8.

Because his only top-10 pick is Vanek. 1-for-1.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

How about instead of posting those cute little pictures, you tell me why Regier is a great drafter, and why I should be excited about picking at number 8.

Why don't you educate yourself on the business constraints that Regier operated under prior to Pegula instead of relying on petty rants to elicit arguments out of everybody else. I'm not about to waste my own time providing you answers that will be too complex for you to accept.

 

[Blitz]

Don't worry about it guys, forget the draft, Darcy has something up his sleeve.....

My guess is that he is working Miller....

I keep saying it but Miller to Philly....

Courtier (or however you spell his name) for Miller are the principles....book it!!!!!!!

I Agree, but I think he is working Sakic & Roy in Colorado...

Matt Duchene for Grigo + 16th (is that enough? 8th instead?)... Duchene and Hodgson are buds, could have great chemistry & Grigo is Roy's boy all day long!!! Fast tracks our retool a bit, and since COL is taking MacKinnon their pivot depth is going to be fine (Stastny, RoR, Grigo, Mac, etc...)

Then we deal either Vanek or Miller to PHI for Couts...

 

[Afinogretzky]

His 1st round drafting record with Devine and the current staff set-up has been very good. I don't wanna hear about Myers' struggles, he was a good pick at #12. What's been his bad first round pick with Devine in charge of scouting? Make no mistake, drafting is driven by the scouting department.

The fact that Karlsson was taken 3 picks later doesn't mean anything?

 

[Zman5778]

The fact that Karlsson was taken 3 picks later doesn't mean anything?

In their draft year, Myers was widely considered far and away the better prospect and the Karlsson pick was actually looked on with a bit of derision by hockey pundits, if my memory is correct.

 

[Afinogretzky]

In their draft year, Myers was widely considered far and away the better prospect and the Karlsson pick was actually looked on with a bit of derision by hockey pundits, if my memory is correct.

I guess that's why they pay GMs the big bucks.

 

[Afinogretzky]

Because his only top-10 pick is Vanek. 1-for-1.

A valid point. His picks between 11 and 13 are all failures though. I guess 8 is in the middle. And 8 in this draft is where things start to get quite fuzzy.

 

[Gabrielor]

There's just a simple division in this thread right now. Those who see a franchise player we could acquire in 10 days by vastly overpaying, and those who either want to wait to do this next year, or pray girgensons becomes messier.

 

[Paxon]

If we won another game we would be picking #12 and everyone would be hoping to somehow move up to #8. Picking at 8/16/38/52/68 is going to be a very good thing for the future of this team. I am pleased with the cup board we are building. Maybe one of these guys emerges from the pack or we get a top pick next year. For how pessimistic things have been this teams future is better than it has been since 07. Adding a bluechip defensive prospect is something our prospect pool could use

And if we sucked our way to #4 everyone would ecstatic... while still arguing about trading into #1 or #2 of course, which would be totally reasonable. The point there being that the failure didn't come today with the honest and sensible admission that we likely can't trade up more than a spot or two if at all, but instead when the team rallied out of a great draft position. We've all had a lot of time to accept that, you'd think people would have by now.

 

[SoFFacet]

The fact that Karlsson was taken 3 picks later doesn't mean anything?

Nope.

 

[buffswords]

Where we are picking is really not a bad thing at all. Although we may not be acquiring our franchise player, we are building up our farm system with all of those complementary pieces. There are teams out there with the star players. But they will never win a cup because they don't have those hardworking, physical complementary pieces. We have those, and who knows, maybe we can find a diamond in the ruff in the later rounds. Remember, it is easier to win a cup with a full team with lots of depth than it is with one or two superstars on teams that have no depth.

 

[Paxon]

The fact that Karlsson was taken 3 picks later doesn't mean anything?

Not really. If you look at any draft in any sports league that is how everything looks in retrospect. Myers at 12 is a hit on a dynamic player with a great tool set and the ability to be a top-pairing defenseman. He's a top 4 defenseman in his early 20's. Don't let how expectations skyrocketed in his rookie season dim the view of the selection.

 

[Zman5778]

His picks between 11 and 13 are all failures though.

2002 #11 -- Keith Ballard. Solid NHL defenseman. Used to get Drury. Not a failure by any stretch.

2004 #13 -- Drew Stafford. Consistent 20 goal scorer. Now showing a bit of a 2 way game. Not a failure.

WAYYYYY too early to call Myers or Grigorenko anything other than works in progress.

 

[Zip15]

There's just a simple division in this thread right now. Those who see a franchise player we could acquire in 10 days by vastly overpaying, and those who either want to wait to do this next year, or pray girgensons becomes messier.

Strawman.

Where do you classify those who recognize that teams don't want to trade out of slots where they're going to get a franchise player?

 

[Gabrielor]

Strawman.

Where do you classify those who recognize that teams don't want to trade out of slots where they're going to get a franchise player?

Several people in here, yourself amongst them, arguing that fans should be content picking where we are. I'm actually attempting to deduce if you have any beliefs at all. You seem to enjoy arguing and throwing out words from 'Ye old fallacy book', yet, I can't seem to find much in the last 10 pages from you outside of "Stop being upset we're not getting the best player in the draft".

 

[joshjull]

FOLKS

Lets tone down the personal crap

 

[Paxon]

There's just a simple division in this thread right now. Those who see a franchise player we could acquire in 10 days by vastly overpaying, and those who either want to wait to do this next year, or pray girgensons becomes messier.

If we're going to talk like this we need to set something tangible to terms. What is overpayment? I mean, there's a point where each individual wouldn't do it. It's possible that the price is at that point based on what's being said. It seems that some teams aren't even hearing offers based on what Darcy said.

In other words, it's possible that the price it'd take is something you or a majority of the people upset wouldn't accept, and the real issue of contention is acceptance of that being the case. I'm not saying that's certainly the case, but it's likely enough to be that all of this arguing is over-the-top.

Also, Lindholm, Monahan, Horvan, Nichushkin, Ristolainen could all be VERY BIG parts of a Cup winner. Nevermind what we get in the rest of the draft with 1 more first, 2 seconds, etc. Why people point to this draft as the only or best time to get a 'franchise player' is something that I've been openly questioning for weeks. Ekblad and McDavid are prospects with even more hype behind them. No one's going to be able to trade for them either, of course, but there's still the chance of getting them if we shed key guys like Vanek. Outside of those guys, there will be elite/franchise players available outside of those 2 in future drafts that we could attain through winning the lottery, finishing in the bottom 5, etc.

 

[Zip15]

Several people in here, yourself amongst them, arguing that fans should be content picking where we are. I'm actually attempting to deduce if you have any beliefs at all. You seem to enjoy arguing and throwing out words from 'Ye old fallacy book', yet, I can't seem to find much in the last 10 pages from you outside of "Stop being upset we're not getting the best player in the draft".

So I'm arguing that we should be content picking 8--good luck finding where I've ever said that--and then you contend I have no beliefs at all. Which is it? Am I fervent about picking at 8 or just some draft nihilist?

 

[SoFFacet]

Several people in here, yourself amongst them, arguing that fans should be content picking where we are. I'm actually attempting to deduce if you have any beliefs at all. You seem to enjoy arguing and throwing out words from 'Ye old fallacy book', yet, I can't seem to find much in the last 10 pages from you outside of "Stop being upset we're not getting the best player in the draft".

You type that as if it were an unreasonable thing to have been told.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

People can legitimately complain about Regier when another team trades up to #1 with an offer that Buffalo could've matched or beaten with similar/better assets. Until then, you can't complain when many teams would like to do the same thing but weren't able to...like in 95% of prevoius drafts (actually a team has NEVER traded up 7 spots to #1 or anything similar). If you want to blame Regier, then you can blame about 15-20 other GMs every draft for not doing the same thing even though they wanted to.