Value of: Trading down on Kapanen

[garyturner3]

You guys totally misunderstood my point. I’m not trying to compare Kapanen and Abdelkader as players. What I’m comparing is how both were lower lineup guys who suddenly took off when placed next to a superstar and suddenly people started thinking they were more than they are. Kapanen is good, but replaceable and it’d be a huge mistake if the Leafs went all Ken Holland and started handing out big contracts (like Helm, Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Ericsson) to keep replaceable players. If Dubas opens the bank to keep Gardiner, for example, that would be a horrible sign of things to come.

Except Kapanen wasn't a lower level player that just took off because of playing with a superstar so it is a bad comparison. There's too much stat watching going on with him. Anyone who watches him play this year sees the progression he's made and it's clear there's nothing about him that resembles a low level player. Those 38 games of limited 4th line minutes last season don't reflect the player he is yet so many people base their opinion on that. He was drafted high for a reason and he's had top 6 potential since day 1. This is just the first year there's been a spot for him to prove he's that player and now he's not disappointing.

I fully get that some players produce hugely inflated numbers from playing with superstars, but that's obvious when you watch them play and see the lack of scoring chances they create instead of just watching boxscores. Marleau is a perfect example at this stage in his career. You play him with average players and he'd put up no points because he relies on his linemates for everything now. He's essentially a passenger. Kapanen couldn't be further from that case though because he regularly and single handedly creates scoring chances out of nothing plays using his speed.

 

[Marshy]

How 'bout NO?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You guys totally misunderstood my point. I’m not trying to compare Kapanen and Abdelkader as players. What I’m comparing is how both were lower lineup guys who suddenly took off when placed next to a superstar and suddenly people started thinking they were more than they are. Kapanen is good, but replaceable and it’d be a huge mistake if the Leafs went all Ken Holland and started handing out big contracts (like Helm, Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Ericsson) to keep replaceable players. If Dubas opens the bank to keep Gardiner, for example, that would be a horrible sign of things to come.

Guys like Kapanen aren't the guys that need to be replaced that's guys Brown, Hainsey, Gardiner, eventually Hyman may be on that list.

But Kapanen is exactly what we think he is, assuming Kapanen stays healthy he is a guy that is faster than everybody with the exception of maybe 4 guys and he has the ability to score 25+ goals that's a guy you keep

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Except Kapanen wasn't a lower level player that just took off because of playing with a superstar so it is a bad comparison. There's too much stat watching going on with him. Anyone who watches him play this year sees the progression he's made and it's clear there's nothing about him that resembles a low level player. Those 38 games of limited 4th line minutes last season don't reflect the player he is yet so many people base their opinion on that. He was drafted high for a reason and he's had top 6 potential since day 1. This is just the first year there's been a spot for him to prove he's that player and now he's not disappointing.

I fully get that some players produce hugely inflated numbers from playing with superstars, but that's obvious when you watch them play and see the lack of scoring chances they create instead of just watching boxscores. Marleau is a perfect example at this stage in his career. You play him with average players and he'd put up no points because he relies on his linemates for everything now. He's essentially a passenger. Kapanen couldn't be further from that case though because he regularly and single handedly creates scoring chances out of nothing plays using his speed.

Well said

 

[TS Quint]

Not bashing anyone? Just two messages ago this is a quote from you:

"Hes only a 40 point player as long as he is with one of the highest paid players in the league. Drop him to the 3rd line and hes not far off from last year."

If that's not bashing I don't know what is. Seriously, just mark a night on your calendar sometime in the next two weeks to tune into a single Leafs game. I promise you afterwards you'll realize how ridiculous your opinions on Kapanen are. The kid is only 22 and still improving too so I suggest you get used to him being a top 6 level player because he's not going away any time soon no matter who he plays on a line with.

You are honestly saying that playing half his minutes with Matthews doesnt help his point totals? Honestly?

 

[garyturner3]

You are honestly saying that playing half his minutes with Matthews doesnt help his point totals? Honestly?

Of course it does, it would help any player. But people (including yourself) are acting like he would just be some 30 point bottom 6 scrub if he wasn't getting carried around the ice by matthews which isn't the case here. There's a reason Babcock keeps putting him back higher in the lineup over a guy like Nylander; it's because he deserves it. Kapanen is talented enough now to put up a lot of points in a scoring role no matter who he's playing on a line with. That's how much he's developed.

 

[sd1976]

It's not arguable. Kapanen is not better/holds more value than Pesce.

Sure, disregard the balance of the offer to suit your false narrative. I said arguably and I would argue that he holds at least as much value.

 

[TS Quint]

Of course it does, it would help any player. But people (including yourself) are acting like he would just be some 30 point bottom 6 scrub if he wasn't getting carried around the ice by matthews which isn't the case here. There's a reason Babcock keeps putting him back higher in the lineup over a guy like Nylander; it's because he deserves it. Kapanen is talented enough now to put up a lot of points in a scoring role no matter who he's playing on a line with. That's how much he's developed.

Once again, stop playing the victim. This vocal minority of Leafs fans cant use their words to make a point so they just cry about people being mean when they dont call players like Kapenen the next coming of Phil Kessel.

I said he was a good player. So you dont think Matthew's has added 10 measly points over the course of a year? What do you think has Matthews added to him offensively? Seems like you dont think it's much. And you dont to seem to think much of Kadri as a "3rd line scrub"...interesting.

 

[garyturner3]

Once again, stop playing the victim. This vocal minority of Leafs fans cant use their words to make a point so they just cry about people being mean when they dont call players like Kapenen the next coming of Phil Kessel.

I said he was a good player. So you dont think Matthew's has added 10 measly points over the course of a year? What do you think has Matthews added to him offensively? Seems like you dont think it's much. And you dont to seem to think much of Kadri as a "3rd line scrub"...interesting.

The basic concept of player development for a highly touted player in his early 20's seems to be lost on you. It's very obvious to anyone that's watched him play this year that this jump in production has much more to do with how much he's progressed as a player than benefiting from playing on a line with Matthews. But either way, your opinion on Kapanen is very uninformed and I can see this debate is going nowhere so I'm done with it. Have a nice day.

 

[TS Quint]

The basic concept of player development for a highly touted player in his early 20's seems to be lost on you. It's very obvious to anyone that's watched him play this year that this jump in production has much more to do with how much he's progressed as a player than benefiting from playing on a line with Matthews. But either way, your opinion on Kapanen is very uninformed and I can see this debate is going nowhere so I'm done with it. Have a nice day.

You're such a victim. I've never even mentioned potential and you're already crying wolf.

I asked a simple question: how many points do you attribute to him playing 51% of his time with Matthew's? But clearly you aren't here to discuss hockey you just want to have a hissy fit over your false perception that the poor little Leaf fans are being picked on. Even if I start a post with "Kapenen is a good player" you are insulted and whine about being picked on. Poor little baby.

 

[NotOpie]

Honest question....who are Kapanen's linemates over the last 20 games?

Kasperi Kapanen has scored 6 goals and 11 points over his last 20 games (about a 45 point pace). That's solid performance, but nothing like the 23 points in 36 games prior to his last 20. He's a good player. I'd love to have him on my team. But don't confuse him with elite talent. You're not getting elite talent back should he be traded.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Honest question....who are Kapanen's linemates over the last 20 games?

Kasperi Kapanen has scored 6 goals and 11 points over his last 20 games (about a 45 point pace). That's solid performance, but nothing like the 23 points in 36 games prior to his last 20. He's a good player. I'd love to have him on my team. But don't confuse him with elite talent. You're not getting elite talent back should he be traded.

It is very important to note he doesnt play hardly any PP time so a 45 point pace without PP time is top 6 production easily