Riellyfan04
Registered User
love our management team!!! kessel trade is good now we need to trade bozak,lupul,dion,jvr n stack up the picks!!! follow Sabres plan! they are stacked with top prospects
At least Dave Nonis. This guy spent weeks in Nashville talking trade and he got exactly what he wanted for Cody Franson. There's no way he would caved to Jim Rutherford.
You know, the interesting thing about this thread title? Really, interesting. IT"S ALL THIS EXPERIENCED MANAGEMENT THAT ****ED THINGS UP IN THE FIRST PLACE.
There was nothing wrong with Burke's last 5 trades. JVR, Versteeg, Kaberle, Beauchemin, and Dion. It was other things that you could criticize him for.
Nonis' last 3 trades were excellent also, Franson+Santa for a valuable pick #24, also made some good deals on Winnik(2nd and a 4th), and Clarkson.
If people want to criticize experience, they can. But there is no doubt these 2 men's deals were far better than the one Shanahan pulled off yesterday.
I think experience is being referenced in trades. And as illustrated above in the last 3-5 deals by Burke and Nonis. One can say they did very well.
My god man..your bias is unbelievable...you only see what you want to. Were Burke/Nonis making trades on guys in a cap world signed to ridiculous contracts and terms?
Management had no leverage. Bringing Kessel back was not a palatable option.
Funny thing is at the time Nonis got kessel to sign at 8 for 8 everyone thought he worked magic.
If kessel had waited he could have commanded over 10M per year in the subsequent off season because the cap was jumping up.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1507273&highlight=kessel+signs
funny, i don't see anything considering it being a ridiculous contract here...
I was responding with regards to 'Mentalist' suggesting those guys made 'excellent' trades while Shanny is some sort of dummy, ignoring the contract term and length after yet another failed year being part of the 'core'. I don't see how anyone could be so confident that those guys or 'any' experienced GM could have done a better job. Talk about comparing apples to oranges.
To emphasize the above, I used the word ridiculous, but I'll clarify - to trade in a cap world a guy who's been part of repeated failures and the best player in your core and questioned for his character (as a result of being part of those failures) is bound to lower his value when he's signed to the term and length of the contract he has. Therefore trying to trade him would always be from a position of weakness. So its irrelevant how 'fair' that 8x8 contract was, his current value with 7 years left in the situation their in, would make it difficult for 'any' GM to pull off some awesome trade. I think most recognize the return was not what we would have hoped for, but except that we were hamstrung and likely not going to do much better. But the insistent arguing by some that this is somehow due to a lack of experience makes zero sense once all factors are taken into consideration.
I have no problem dealing Phil. What I do have a problem with is the return, timing, and non creativity with this deal perhaps a better more experienced GM could have pulled off.
Leafs did not just have to deal Kessel, if they were getting such low returns. Package him with JVR and his favourable 4.25 caphit.
This deal lacked real perspective, creativity to get us better assets for the rebuild. That's what we are doing rebuilding I hear.
If Kessel alone was not fetching return, how about adding JVR or Kadri? I don't know if Shanahan considered this. He never made a deal in his life so I would expect the answer would be no. But maybe packaging was the best way to go.
I will say it again, but not having an experienced GM in place prior to the draft was the wrong way to go.
Without having a GM we traded David Clarkson. I'm good with that
We had Nonis at the time, but if you are saying he isn't/wasn't a real GM many would agree with you.
Nonis had no part in that deal. How soon after was he fired?
Brian Burke had experience..................
Dave Nonis had experience...................
How well did that work out?..................
Stan Bowman has experience, how is he doing ? Or that Holland guy ?
Experience isn't everything but trying to portray it as a negative is pretty ridiculous.
What does Stan Bowman or Ken Holland have to do with my point?
Neither Burke or Nonis who have experience were able to turn this team from non playoff to playoff so why not give the non experienced guys a chance?
What does Stan Bowman or Ken Holland have to do with my point?
Neither Burke or Nonis who have experience were able to turn this team from non playoff to playoff so why not give the non experienced guys a chance?
Burke wasn't given a fair chance but that's another story.
What does Stan Bowman or Ken Holland have to do with my point?
Neither Burke or Nonis who have experience were able to turn this team from non playoff to playoff so why not give the non experienced guys a chance?
No doubt the low return on Kessel will invite questions about the lack of a GM in Toronto, however it's important to note that Saad and Hamilton both got pretty weak returns as well.
Even the Lucic trade was for a pretty weak return, especially if Boston wasn't able to flip Jones for another 1st.
It's been a weird offseason. Good players have been traded for very little, and goalie value has jumped up for some reason.
The question may not be whether not having a GM hurt us, but rather, whether this was the best time to trade Kessel (hint: it wasn't).