Trades: The one area where a lack of NHL GM experience hurts

[dubplatepressure]

Two experienced GMs put us in this position in the first place.

wow this x100

 

[Jacquestrapless]

We are pretty much paying the price of our previous GMs to start over. I am happy MGMT traded kessel. I cannot believe fans would have rather retained kessel for the entire duration of the rebuild than trade him.

 

[Reddaye]

I'm not sure people understand how hard it is to make a trade like the one for Kessel?

You can have all the experience in the world, it doesn't make moving a contract like his in a cap world any easier. It takes two to tango, and a trade needs to work for both sides.

They pulled the trigger to signal the culture change, and get a package of assets to fuel the rebuild. This is the best most anyone can hope for given the salary concerns. Now we all need to move on, and look towards the future. They said there would be pain, and so now there's pain. We need to turn the assets into valuable pieces of our future.

 

[pspot]

I wouldn't be surprised if this team does better than last years

 

[Bullseye]

If you look at the organization now versus 1 month ago it full of promising young players now many of whom will become highly traceable commodities themselves if we can't use them.

I am fully supportive of Shanny/Dubas/Hunter.

 

[GrizzLeaf]

I'm surprised Burke didn't try and get Kessel from the Leafs. Would have been nice to get a couple of first rounders for him, and only Burke would be foolish enough to do it. Probably because he's so experienced.

 

[pspot]

If you look at the organization now versus 1 month ago it full of promising young players now many of whom will become highly traceable commodities themselves if we can't use them.

I am fully supportive of Shanny/Dubas/Hunter.

Marner, Nylander, Lepsiec, Brown, Kapanen will be fun to watch

 

[leafsfuture]

I'm not sure people understand how hard it is to make a trade like the one for Kessel?

You can have all the experience in the world, it doesn't make moving a contract like his in a cap world any easier. It takes two to tango, and a trade needs to work for both sides.

They pulled the trigger to signal the culture change, and get a package of assets to fuel the rebuild. This is the best most anyone can hope for given the salary concerns. Now we all need to move on, and look towards the future. They said there would be pain, and so now there's pain. We need to turn the assets into valuable pieces of our future.

I dont disagree.

But the point is that these guys took option A as soon as it was available. Don't kid yourself, Pittsburgh wasn't making the trade before Phil's bonus was paid.

Experience is to know when you are overpaying and when you can afford to wait. It doesn't mean you are immune from mistakes, but it does allow you to know when something works and doesn't work

 

[The CyNick]

I truly believed "experience" is a tad overrated, but if there is one area where it is crucial... it is trades.

I have faith in Shanahan, Pridham, Dubas and Hunter. They are smart hockey minds, and talent evaluators. However I don't think they have the NHL experience to be pulling off big trades right now.

Can someone explain to me why this dead had to happen today? It seems Pittsburgh was big into Kessel. I don't see why management could not have waited a few days for the market to sort itself out?

I just think that a person with prior NHL management experience would have been able to know whether the Leafs could afford to hand back and wait a bit.

For all this talk of patience, the Leafs crew traded Kessel literally the first day it was possible.

Before we trade anyone else, please I want a GM!

Why are you assuming we got bad return for the player? The player was a very flawed player with a huge cap hit for many years and had a say on where he went. All reports have said there were maybe 3 teams in on the player, and in reality he could only be traded to one of them.

Unless you know of another offer that was turned down, you cant really say it was a bad deal.

Sure, we could have kept him, but then thats not changing the culture. He's the biggest personality in the room based on his cap and position on the team. If he's still around, its his team. You cant just keep him and say you're turning over a new leaf. Sure, if he lit it up next year, he would garner more in terms of a return. But what happens if he has another sub par year? Then his value may drop even further.

This isnt about what we got for the player, it about what this means for changing the culture of the team. Mission accomplished.

 

[The CyNick]

I wouldn't be surprised if this team does better than last years

I would bet HUGE money on that. Especially if you get rid of a few more pieces of dead wood.

 

[Reddaye]

I dont disagree.

But the point is that these guys took option A as soon as it was available. Don't kid yourself, Pittsburgh wasn't making the trade before Phil's bonus was paid.

Experience is to know when you are overpaying and when you can afford to wait. It doesn't mean you are immune from mistakes, but it does allow you to know when something works and doesn't work

What doesn't work? We moved out a player with huge salary to a team that wanted him, and return got future pieces, which is what the plan is. Isn't that the plan? To bring in future pieces to build with?

I'm not saying that we got an amazing deal here. When you're trading the best player in a deal you're automatically losing. There is no trade in existence that would satisfy everyone, because Seth Jones and players of his ilk aren't being traded. So you take the package you feel is the best, and you move forward with it.

There are things to dislike about this trade, and there are things to like. I'm not convinced an experienced GM would have done any better. We just had an experienced GM, and he traded away a draft pick with Carl Gunnarrson for an inferior player in Roman Polak. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

[Brewsky]

Aside from the Kessel deal, Burke was amazing at trades.

But that Kessel deal really set us back.

It's crazy how realistically, we are in the same position now as before the Kessel deal.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Like does anyone truly think a GM like Sather, or Murray, or anyone agreeing to trade Kessel, then allowing the first round pick in return to be lottery protected. OR SEND A PICK BACK?

Thats my only point. I get that we didn't get Pouliot. I can understand.

But when management allows for things like sending back high picks, and lottery protection, you know somewhere along the line we either got played, or management simply didn't care

This is why

The Pittsburgh Penguins do not have a lot of top end talent, in the past few years.
They also have given up a few first round picks, consecutively.
They almost got burned on the Perron deal (now I wouldn't have given up a 1st rounder for Perron but that's just me).


The Leafs did not send a high pick back. They sent back the Penguins original pick back. The Leafs could not accept bloated contracts back, because the bloated contracts in return did not want to be on the Leafs.

Majority of teams lottery/playoff protect their picks now. Quite frankly, you could argue the reason why people do this - is due to a few things

1: Burke not doing it, and being ultimately burned by it (2nd OVA, 32nd OVA, 9th OVA)
2: Injuries/parity
3: having common sense especially with the new lottery system. Why would you want to give up a potential lottery winner if you also missed the playoffs?

mix it all together, and you get this trade.

 

[Tak7]

Aside from the Kessel deal, Burke was amazing at trades.

But that Kessel deal really set us back.

It's crazy how realistically, we are in the same position now as before the Kessel deal.

Yep.

It's depressing that we are in almost the exact same situation that we were in SEVEN years ago when Burke joined, albeit with a slightly better prospect pool now.

 

[nuck]

I truly believed "experience" is a tad overrated, but if there is one area where it is crucial... it is trades.

I have faith in Shanahan, Pridham, Dubas and Hunter. They are smart hockey minds, and talent evaluators. However I don't think they have the NHL experience to be pulling off big trades right now.

Can someone explain to me why this dead had to happen today? It seems Pittsburgh was big into Kessel. I don't see why management could not have waited a few days for the market to sort itself out?

I just think that a person with prior NHL management experience would have been able to know whether the Leafs could afford to hand back and wait a bit.

For all this talk of patience, the Leafs crew traded Kessel literally the first day it was possible.

Before we trade anyone else, please I want a GM!

I suspect he knocked on every door already. He knew there were no deals to wait on and this was what was there to be had. I disagree that our rookie gm team was the problem. If people are interested in Kessel they will call, it isn't like they have to be talked into thinking he is desirable. I do think they might be at a disadvantage in terms of networking and relationships with other GMs because that doesn't occur overnight but that is something that doesn't seem to factor in a ton of deals.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yep.

It's depressing that we are in almost the exact same situation that we were in SEVEN years ago when Burke joined, albeit with a slightly better prospect pool now.

not depressing! exciting!
always looking on the bright side, I am.

 

[The Apologist]

I would bet HUGE money on that. Especially if you get rid of a few more pieces of dead wood.

Id be willing to take that bet. Every time. I know we just added an all world talent like Winnik, but this team is gonna make last years Sabres look like the Hawks.

 

[showtime8]

I'm not sure how much more an experienced could have got for Kessel.

I understand what the OP is trying to say, but in situations like this when the teams that a player can get moved to are very very limited, this is a quality return.

 

[Lubo]

Aside from the Kessel deal, Burke was amazing at trades.

But that Kessel deal really set us back.

It's crazy how realistically, we are in the same position now as before the Kessel deal.

Not crazy. Sad.

At least I am more confident in the direction this time around.

It is what it is, Burke put it all on the line, gambled and lost. That's life.

Succeeded in Phase A of his plan in trading for a sniper in Kessel; failed with the Sedin FA situation and was never able to get that top C he coveted. It actually derailed everything.

He faced the pressure of expectations from his prior success as well as the ever present eyes of the impatient ownership.

 

[dougieg93]

I place a lot of blame on Claude Loiselle more than the GM's. Every contract he drew up came back to haunt us in a big way.

 

[Warden of the North]

Yep.

It's depressing that we are in almost the exact same situation that we were in SEVEN years ago when Burke joined, albeit with a slightly better prospect pool now.

Our prospect pool is miles and miles ahead of where it was when Burke got here. Its not even close.

We had Luke Schenn as a high pick. Thats its. Sure Reimer, Gunnarson, Komarov turned out OK, but at that point they were still very young and we really had no idea.

We've got Marner, Nylander, Kapanen to start off with now, as well as a stud young dman in Rielly.

 

[I Believe]

Pretty happy with getting Marincin for a 4th.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Lets face it, If the Leafs got anything less than Malkin and or Crosby people were going to ***** , moan and complain until Kessel retires. We already got that with the initial trade with Boston, now we'll have people doing the same here with this one. Great.

 

[dougieg93]

Lets face it, If the Leafs got anything less than Malkin and or Crosby people were going to ***** , moan and complain until Kessel retires. We already got that with the initial trade with Boston, now we'll have people doing the same here with this one. Great.

We definitely got a lot less then what we paid for - a 2nd and 9th overall is a big payment. However for me it's irrelevant - Kessel had to go so that we can endure some pain and start rebuilding and you can't underestimate the prospects of having cap flexibility would mean for our future. After the 2016 draft we would poised to have the deepest prospect pools in the NHL.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

My take on an Inexperienced Mgt team

I have no problem dealing Phil. What I do have a problem with is the return, timing, and non creativity with this deal perhaps a better more experienced GM could have pulled off.

Leafs did not just have to deal Kessel, if they were getting such low returns. Package him with JVR and his favourable 4.25 caphit.

This deal lacked real perspective, creativity to get us better assets for the rebuild. That's what we are doing rebuilding I hear.

If Kessel alone was not fetching return, how about adding JVR or Kadri? I don't know if Shanahan considered this. He never made a deal in his life so I would expect the answer would be no. But maybe packaging was the best way to go.

I will say it again, but not having an experienced GM in place prior to the draft was the wrong way to go.