Trades and Free Agent Talk -- Insert witty title here

[Ziggdiezan]

I think the realities of the market jave ayed a big role.

Like we know Dubas first had a deal in place with thr Flames for Brodie+ for Kadri, but that Kadri vetoed the deal with his partial ntc.

Barrie likely not what Babcock wanted - but was likely one lf the few top level rhd D men available

I wonder if it was something around Brodie+Bennet for Kadri+ similar to the Avs deal to get a 3C back too.

 

[ToneDog]

I wonder if it was something around Brodie+Bennet for Kadri+ similar to the Avs deal to get a 3C back too.

Believe it was Jankowski.

 

[4thline]

Sure, if you want to look at it that way.
I see the different management regimes as part of a continuum. We've been rebuilding for years now under different management regimes and we've been lousy and had high overall picks for years now.

We started to rebuild in 2015. 2013 we made the playoffs, 2014 was a failed year where the intent was to make the playoffs. From the birthyears that were drafted 2015 and later (the period where we were rebuilding) a grand total of one (1) goalie has demonstrated the ability to be an NHL regular.

Trying to cast doubt on our ability to draft/ develop and fill holes due to a lack of backup goalie is , as the kids say, a horrible take.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Believe it was Jankowski.

Interesting

 

[MyBudJT]

5th in the conference and 9th overall in league.
fire the coach and gm, trade half the d , lol

While starting with three D-pairings that never played with each other AND not once icing a completely healthy roster.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

We started to rebuild in 2015. 2013 we made the playoffs, 2014 was a failed year where the intent was to make the playoffs. From the birthyears that were drafted 2015 and later (the period where we were rebuilding) a grand total of one (1) goalie has demonstrated the ability to be an NHL regular.

Trying to cast doubt on our ability to draft/ develop and fill holes due to a lack of backup goalie is , as the kids say, a horrible take.

You read too much in to this. Obviously basing draft performance on this one thing would be a bad idea, but there's other concerns regarding our prospect farm e.g., trading away 1st and 2nd rounders. Just worried that this might be a sign (or another sign) versus pretending that everything is rosy and there's zero concerns. Just like when we lost the in the 1st round the first time, but now its happened 3 times - maybe there's something there?

 

[4thline]

You read too much in to this. Obviously basing draft performance on this one thing would be a bad idea, but there's other concerns regarding our prospect farm e.g., trading away 1st and 2nd rounders. Just worried that this might be a sign (or another sign) versus pretending that everything is rosy and there's zero concerns.

What is it a sign of? What specific concerns does this management group not being in place long enough to develop a goalie raise about our prospect farm? How are said concerns connected to trading away picks?

Lol at making a vague and unsupportable negative post based on a specific thing and having the retort of "don't read into it or make me defend the specific thing, just let me be negative without base"

 

[Buds17]

I wonder if it was something around Brodie+Bennet for Kadri+ similar to the Avs deal to get a 3C back too.

Brodie and Jankowski for Kadri and Brown IIRC. Potentially changes the face of that later Ottawa trade, for whatever that might be worth.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

What is it a sign of? What specific concerns does this management group not being in place long enough to develop a goalie raise about our prospect farm? How are said concerns connected to trading away picks?

We shall see. Getting a decent backup goaltender doesn't seem like a particularly difficult challenge. Hopefully this is this management's group only issue or problem and that everything else is rock solid. This is our year to get results I'd think.

 

[4thline]

We shall see. Getting a decent backup goaltender doesn't seem like a particularly difficult challenge. Hopefully this is this management's group only issue or problem and that everything else is rock solid. This is our year to get results I'd think.

How is at all related to taking a terribly misinformed shot at our drafting and development?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

While starting with three D-pairings that never played with each other AND not once icing a completely healthy roster.

It's crazy what Matthews is doing. 6th in league scoring (behind Marchand-Pastrnak; McDavid-Draisaitl; and a historic run from John Carlson) and tied for 3rd in goals... And he's not even playing to his full abilities.

His line looks invisible yet they are usually the ones dragging us to W's right now.

 

[Zybalto]

We watched him play.

Thats the big problem here.

I've watched him play as well as see a great RHD that we need. Good transisitions, solid defense, fewest giveaways in the top 4, doesnt take many penalties, great pk numbers, great analytics and great raw numbers for a defensive D in that he doesnt give up many goals, all against the other teams top players every night.

I leave it up to the bean counters to figure out the numbers but I try to keep all biases aside when judging a player and I havnt listened to sports media all year. All I have are my eyes and the data really.

This is something to really think about.

Was using corsica to check TOI QoC (it's down again) but last I checked, he faced the toughest QoC in the league....and yet both analytics and plain raw numbers all say hes one of the better dmen in the league this year, at least at playing D. His REL numbers are off the charts. Among the 138 dmen with 250 5v5 minutes, His HDCF% REL is 2nd in the league against the top comp in the league.

I mean, to me it just seems ludicrous.

Either everything we use to track data is wrong you you are under a misapprehension.

Even in the eye test it's like a neverending movie of nice transitions, good rub outs, etc.. and then he gets scored on and all I hear is negativity. No one here likes defense they just claim to like it.

Ceci this year is good D. That's what it looks like.

It's why I don't think a guy like Manson would really work here.

Ceci has been better than Manson this year. Do you really think this town would take to him?......like they took to Hainsey, or Zaitsev, or any other defensive D in memory.

Zaitsev was right before he left...this town doesnt understand hockey usage or defensive defenders.

Cant wait for the next game when we get scored on for the camera to go for the close up of the next object of our 2 minute hate, usually the wrong guy if the broadcast can even get the players names right.

/end rant

Sorry about that, got carried away.


Maybe the losing is getting to me too.

 

[Kiwi]

You mean the same low percentage point shots that were going in for him his whole career in Colorado??? Those shots you speak of.

Maybe Babcock needs to put more emphasis on his forwards crashing the net like Colorado did and those low percentage point shots are more dangerous. That is Barrie's game getting the puck to the net, always has been. Not his fault the Leafs employ a bunch of players that like to hang by the circles instead of working for chances!!!!

Give me a break. Now this is all Barrie's fault right!!!!

This isn't Colorado, he's not going to play a million minutes on the top PP unit and be force feed offensive opportunities 5v5 because he's the best offensive D on the team, Rielly exists

Have you watched him? I don't give a rat's ass who you are shooting point shots with no net front presence or with pressure right in your face is dumb, this team also isn't built to crash the net either

Perhaps passing the puck would be a decent plan instead of a pointless point shot? Extremely complex theory I know but just an idea

That's not even getting into his defensive game

Avs fan here. Barrie’s “low percentage shots” are part of what turned him into such a stud. He has a ridiculous ability to get shots on net. He picked it up playing with Burns at the WC a few years ago.

Sucks that things haven’t worked out so far but it seems like the things that make him so effective aren’t being utilized very well in Toronto.

His game doesn't suit us at all, we're not going to crash the net so shooting everything from the point all game is completely pointless

Love Kerfoot though, he's made the trade worthwhile for us imo

 

[MyBudJT]

It's crazy what Matthews is doing. 6th in league scoring (behind Marchand-Pastrnak; McDavid-Draisaitl; and a historic run from John Carlson) and tied for 3rd in goals... And he's not even playing to his full abilities.

His line looks invisible yet they are usually the ones dragging us to W's right now.

Okay, not sure what that has to do with my post.... but you're not wrong...

 

[HoweHullOrr]

How is at all related to taking a terribly misinformed shot at our drafting and development?

General & broad concerns about our management - that's all. Hoping this isn't a sign of something larger. You somehow think you're in my head and know what I'm thinking. You are preoccupied by the personal attack versus discussion. Good to know I'm living rent free in your head I guess.

 

[Legion34]

Believe it was Jankowski.

johnson said it was a 3 way with Winnipeg to get
A 3c

 

[4thline]

General & broad concerns about our management - that's all. Hoping this isn't a sign of something larger. .

Hoping what isn't a sign of something larger? That previous management didn't draft and develop a backup goalie or that under current management goaltending has become a strength in the prospect pool? What are these drafting and development related concerns and how are they supported by Kaskisuo getting a chance at backup?

You want discussion, discuss.

 

[Menzinger]

I wonder if it was something around Brodie+Bennet for Kadri+ similar to the Avs deal to get a 3C back too.

Probably either him or Jankowski as the +

 

[HoweHullOrr]

That small individual things are not indicative of larger problems. We've had four drafts with the new regime. We haven't won a playoff round. There are still question marks on defense. We haven't got a reliable back up goalie. We have talked about having a stocked cupboard of good prospects being able to fill holes for at least the last 4 years. Yet, when we were in the real early phase of the rebuild we didn't leverage our soon to be UFAs into prospects/picks. I have mentioned all of these things already. I'm hoping that this is the year, but until we actually do (win) something, just about everything deserves to be examined or questioned including our management group, drafting, etc.

Its time now.

 

[baton elevated]

My issue with current Management is simply not recognizing that this team as built is not close to contention. They will not do what is necessary to go forward.

For example they let all their UFA's walk and received nothing in return. Bozak, JVR, Gardiner are examples. Using the concept of our own rentals is flawed when you really aren't a strong playoff contender. You know they are walking or not retained so get something in return. But no, this team is terrified that these guys are game changers and must be retained to win a round or two.......so flawed.

Trading draft picks for rentals is also very flawed and rarely produces the positive results it's designed for.

 

[dubplatepressure]

My issue with current Management is simply not recognizing that this team as built is not close to contention. They will not do what is necessary to go forward.

For example they let all their UFA's walk and received nothing in return. Bozak, JVR, Gardiner are examples. Using the concept of our own rentals is flawed when you really aren't a strong playoff contender. You know they are walking or not retained so get something in return. But no, this team is terrified that these guys are game changers and must be retained to win a round or two.......so flawed.

Trading draft picks for rentals is also very flawed and rarely produces the positive results it's designed for.

Can you source a single media item in which they've clearly stated they believe they are SC contenders?

 

[baton elevated]

Can you source a single media item in which they've clearly stated they believe they are SC contenders?

No not really. just going off the fan perspective here on our board. there are a number of people that claim the season is still young and we will improve when fully acclimated with new players. I have my doubts this will happen. The problems evident are still the problems we have had for 2 years now.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Okay, not sure what that has to do with my post.... but you're not wrong...

It was an add-on... Showing how Matthews (and his line) has been able to put the team on their back to keep this team competitive despite that adversity.

 

[4thline]

That small individual things are not indicative of larger problems. We've had four drafts with the new regime. We haven't won a playoff round. There are still question marks on defense. We haven't got a reliable back up goalie. We have talked about having a stocked cupboard of good prospects being able to fill holes for at least the last 4 years. Yet, when we were in the real early phase of the rebuild we didn't leverage our soon to be UFAs into prospects/picks. I have mentioned all of these things already. I'm hoping that this is the year, but until we actually do (win) something, just about everything deserves to be examined or questioned including our management group, drafting, etc.

Its time now.

So no actual concrete connection between your first point and what it's become, just a piss poor segue into off-topic negativity, neat!

 

[Magic Man]

Brodie and Jankowski for Kadri and Brown IIRC. Potentially changes the face of that later Ottawa trade, for whatever that might be worth.

I think the Leafs did better with the deal from Colorado. I thought Jankowski might be better as 3C, but he's soft for a big guy and produces less. Kerfoot probably was a better choice, he can fill in at 2C. Though, Jank is the better defensive player, if he played like his size indicated he'd be more interesting. Brodie shoots left and had 3 sub 40 point seasons in a row and Barrie shoots right and had 50+ two years in a row. So, from a value perspective and fit perspective I think they made the right move. It should show more statistically throughout the season.

I still think Pietrangelo replaces Barrie in the summer and Kerfoot should be moved to bring in a heavy forward like Lawson Crouse.