Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[WTFMAN99]

Holl's an upgrade over all 3 of them.

Schenn's aged really well.

Fantastic since Tampa. Excellent with Hughes last year. I'd easily take him over Holl at this point.

Myers at 6M vs Holl at 2M, it's a conversation because of the cap.

Poolman isn't worth 2.5M

 

[ULF_55]

Chych is a great player with low cap hit. We should try to make it work

So how do you get Muzzin to agree to waive to go to Arizona?
What incentive can you give him?
Bench him and play with 5 defensemen due to Cap?

If he'd agree:
Muzzin, 1st., Engvall, Niemela
for
Chychrun, and some Cap space.

Realistically, from the Coyotes perspective that is 1st. and Niemela for Chychrun so I think Leafs have to add.

Take out Niemela and add Knies?

Coyotes really looking about 3 years down the road until they're back in the NHL.

 

[zeke]

Schenn's aged really well.

Fantastic since Tampa. Excellent with Hughes last year. I'd easily take him over Holl at this point.

Myers at 6M vs Holl at 2M, it's a conversation because of the cap.

Poolman isn't worth 2.5M

Schenn didn't suddenly at age 32 become more than the limited bottom pair guy he's been his whole career. He may have looked better than the rest on a team full of awful dmen, though. Schenn at no point has ever been a capable 20mpg dman on a good team, like Holl has been the past few years.

 

[zeke]

An interesting idea might be:

OUT: Kerfoot, Engvall, Holl
IN: Center in the $4.5m range

This would be to give us a strong two-way 3C, get us comfortably under the cap, and free up two wing spots for all of Robertson, Malgin, Holmberg, Steeves, Abruzzese, Knies, McMann, Gaudette, Anderson, Douglas to battle over all year.

To make this work, we probably need to target a player on a team looking to free up longer term capspace by taking on these three expiring deals. So a center making around $4.5m but signed for a few years. Probably looking at it being a veteran from a team looking to rebuild. Not sure how many candidates there are out there but it could work.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Schenn didn't suddenly at age 32 become more than the limited bottom pair guy he's been his whole career. He may have looked better than the rest on a team full of awful dmen, though. Schenn at no point has ever been a capable 20mpg dman on a good team, like Holl has been the past few years.

Holl was carried by Muzzin the last 2 years that Holl has been over 20 mins TOI on average.

He struggled because Muzzin wasn't up for it anymore last season and then injured. Holl was also scratched because he was bad and saw his minutes decline once Keefe was finally forced to concede the pairing was broken. Average got inflated early season.

Playoffs, he didn't play all 7 games and only touched 20 mins once, likely due to pk.

The minutes in the playoffs are more in line with Schenn's 17 mins on average.

 

[zeke]

Holl was carried by Muzzin the last 2 years that Holl has been over 20 mins TOI on average.

He struggled because Muzzin wasn't up for it anymore last season and then injured. Holl was also scratched because he was bad and saw his minutes decline once Keefe was finally forced to concede the pairing was broken. Average got inflated early season.

Playoffs, he didn't play all 7 games and only touched 20 mins once, likely due to pk.

The minutes in the playoffs are more in line with Schenn's 17 mins on average.


View attachment 590714

Holl finally got pushed out of the top 4 by playing on a defense that featured 4 very good top 4 dmen ahead of him, on one of the best teams in hockey.

Schenn played 17mpg for a team with only 1 or 2 top 4 dmen, and none of them on the right side.

 

[LeafSteel]

So how do you get Muzzin to agree to waive to go to Arizona?
What incentive can you give him?
Bench him and play with 5 defensemen due to Cap?

If he'd agree:
Muzzin, 1st., Engvall, Niemela
for
Chychrun, and some Cap space.

Realistically, from the Coyotes perspective that is 1st. and Niemela for Chychrun so I think Leafs have to add.

Take out Niemela and add Knies?

Coyotes really looking about 3 years down the road until they're back in the NHL.

Why are we bending over to throw away our top prospects and picks for a player that doesn’t even fit our needs, and who has been injured as much as Muzzin?

God I can’t wait for some other team to step up and take this guy off the market. Sick of seeing his name and our best prospects being thrown around…..

 

[WTFMAN99]

Holl finally got pushed out of the top 4 by playing on a defense that featured 4 very good top 4 dmen ahead of him, on one of the best teams in hockey.

Schenn played 17mpg for a team with only 1 or 2 top 4 dmen, and none of them on the right side.

And yet on a poor team, Schenn's 5v5 D is not bad at all. Covered quite a bit for Hughes.

Holl was getting caved in.

TOI is such a crappy metric too if you suck at playing the minutes lol.

 

[zeke]

And yet on a poor team, Schenn's 5v5 D is not bad at all. Covered quite a bit for Hughes.

Holl was getting caved in.

Caved in how?

Holl last year, and for years, has faced extreme tough usage on a top matchup pair for one of the best teams in hockey and performed very well.

Schenn has either been a tiny role 6/7 guy on good teams or a borderline top 4 guy on bad teams. And never a guy that faced the top matchups.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think it's pretty clear to me that Holl is a better player overall than Schenn. You aren't going to find better than Holl for 2M. The issue becomes more so that we don't need a good #7 2M defenseman in our current state, we need that little bit of cap space and you can replace his role with a cheaper alternative. That alternative will not be as good but it will also be cheaper...

It's either him or Engvall. But not sure I'd trade the 6'5" 15 goal scorer that played only PK and defensive minutes.

 

[deprw]

I'm in that group as well.

I think both are "luxury" we can't afford after this season and lost assets in any case. I'd try to cut my losses, though we might have to add dman at deadline, but we could gain assets for that right now.

In big picture I'd already start building towards playoffs and in that scenario Kerfoot is something we would like to keep.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Caved in how?

Holl last year, and for years, has faced extreme tough usage on a top matchup pair for one of the best teams in hockey and performed very well.

Schenn has either been a tiny role 6/7 guy on good teams or a borderline top 4 guy on bad teams. And never a guy that faced the top matchups.

Can't bring up the sites I want, unfortunately a lot of them are labelled as "gaming" at my work place lol.

I think it's pretty clear to me that Holl is a better player overall than Schenn. You aren't going to find better than Holl for 2M. The issue becomes more so that we don't need a good #7 2M defenseman in our current state, we need that little bit of cap space and you can replace his role with a cheaper alternative. That alternative will not be as good but it will also be cheaper...

It's either him or Engvall. But not sure I'd trade the 6'5" 15 goal scorer that played only PK and defensive minutes.

Jarnkork
Marner
ZAR
Kampf
NAK
Kerfoot

In theory, the pk is okay.

 

[4thline]

I think it's pretty clear to me that Holl is a better player overall than Schenn. You aren't going to find better than Holl for 2M. The issue becomes more so that we don't need a good #7 2M defenseman in our current state, we need that little bit of cap space and you can replace his role with a cheaper alternative. That alternative will not be as good but it will also be cheaper...

Cross posting
Engvall out -> ZAR in = compliant 21 man roster, no room for a spare F, next to no accrual
Holl out -> no one in (ZAR walks) = compliant 20 man roster, 720k in cap space to accrue for spot spare use, potentially some accrual (but unlikely)
Kerfoot out -> ZAR in = compliant 21 man roster, room for a call up F when needed, able to accrue deadlines space

 

[SprDaVE]

Can't bring up the sites I want, unfortunately a lot of them are labelled as "gaming" at my work place lol.



Jarnkork
Marner
ZAR
Kampf
NAK
Kerfoot

In theory, the pk is okay.

NAK and ZAR aren't nearly as good as Engvall on the PK or 5 on 5. I don't even think they are in the same stratosphere. He's really being underrated here.

 

[TMLAM34]

I’m definitely open to moving Holl and potentially Kerfoot. I’d hold onto Engvall however.

 

[WTFMAN99]

NAK and ZAR aren't nearly as good as Engvall on the PK or 5 on 5. I don't even think they are in the same stratosphere. He's really being underrated here.

Isn't ZAR one of the absolute best defensive wingers in the league? Plus physical game. ZAR and Engvall difference could be 5-7 goals.

NAK and Engvall, it's a drop off but we're cash strapped, do we value the 1.25M? I don't know if we ever get fully healthy but if we do, a move *needs* to happen.

Would you prefer Kerfoot go?

 

[SprDaVE]

Isn't ZAR one of the absolute best defensive wingers in the league? Plus physical game. ZAR and Engvall difference could be 5-7 goals.

NAK and Engvall, it's a drop off but we're cash strapped, do we value the 1.25M? I don't know if we ever get fully healthy but if we do, a move *needs* to happen.

Would you prefer Kerfoot go?

Quality of competition is vastly different I am pretty sure. ZAR contributes well defensively in a 4th line role playing limiting minutes. Engvall is in a shut down high defensive zone line. And he put up 15 goals.

Engvall fits in a top 9 role quite easily with Kampf and probs Jarnkrok like in practice. He'd be a top 6 winger on a lot of teams. ZAR should not slot higher than the 4th line.

Kerfoot right now is our 2nd line center, probably will play every line again.

I'll be honest... I'm not sure why we're trading away players just to sign ZAR. He's a solid 4th liner and I wanted to sign him all summer but he's not something to go banana's over at all. I understand downgrading on Holl since he's on the bench.

 

[zeke]

Quality of competition is vastly different I am pretty sure. ZAR contributes well defensively in a 4th line role playing limiting minutes. Engvall is in a shut down high defensive zone line. And he put up 15 goals.

Engvall fits in a top 9 role quite easily with Kampf and probs Jarnkrok like in practice. He'd be a top 6 winger on a lot of teams. Kerfoot right now is our 2nd line center, probably will play every line again.

I'll be honest... I'm not sure why we're trading away players just to sign ZAR. He's good but he's not something to go banana's over at all. I understand downgrading on Holl since he's on the bench.

ZAR actually has put up his good numbers mostly in a fairly strong role on a good team - in PIT he was in the 12-13 mpg range just at EVs, and that was usually on a line tasked with quality matchups and defensive zone deployment. This isn't a guy who has benefitted from a small soft usage 4th line role, really.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Quality of competition is vastly different I am pretty sure. ZAR contributes well defensively in a 4th line role playing limiting minutes. Engvall is in a shut down high defensive zone line. And he put up 15 goals.

Engvall fits in a top 9 role quite easily with Kampf and probs Jarnkrok like in practice. He'd be a top 6 winger on a lot of teams. Kerfoot right now is our 2nd line center, probably will play every line again.

I'll be honest... I'm not sure why we're trading away players just to sign ZAR. He's a solid 4th liner but he's not something to go banana's over at all. I understand downgrading on Holl since he's on the bench.

So ZAR has 59.5% as his lowest Dzone start, otherwise it's 61.5 to 69.2% Dzone starts at 5v5 so massive D zone starts

Lots of hitting too, over 200 hits the last 2 seasons.

I think he has a spot on this roster. I'd definitely take him over NAK today.

 

[SprDaVE]

ZAR actually has put up his good numbers mostly in a fairly strong role on a good team - in PIT he was in the 12-13 mpg range just at EVs, and that was usually on a line tasked with quality matchups and defensive zone deployment. This isn't a guy who has benefitted from a small soft usage 4th line role, really.

So ZAR has 59.5% as his lowest Dzone start, otherwise it's 61.5 to 69.2% Dzone starts at 5v5 so massive D zone starts

Lots of hitting too, over 200 hits the last 2 seasons.

I think he has a spot on this roster. I'd definitely take him over NAK today.

I wanted ZAR the entire summer for that reason. The kind of 4th liner that fits perfectly in what the Keefe/Leafs need and look for in their depth/role players. Engvall is really much better in almost every category though.

We'll see how they juggle the cap if/when ZAR is signed. With Tavares out for a little bit, we can push that problem for a bit.

 

[hamzarocks]

8 years 9.15M for Barzal

Nylander comparable in 2 years.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I wanted ZAR the entire summer for that reason. The kind of 4th liner that fits perfectly in what the Keefe/Leafs need and look for in their depth/role players. Engvall is really much better in almost every category though.

We'll see how they juggle the cap if/when ZAR is signed. With Tavares out for a little bit, we can push that problem for a bit.

Holl is probably my first choice of guy to move if the D gets healthy, if you're gonna have someone sit in the press box, why not Mete at 750k? Beats 2M

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think it's pretty clear to me that Holl is a better player overall than Schenn. You aren't going to find better than Holl for 2M. The issue becomes more so that we don't need a good #7 2M defenseman in our current state, we need that little bit of cap space and you can replace his role with a cheaper alternative. That alternative will not be as good but it will also be cheaper...

It's either him or Engvall. But not sure I'd trade the 6'5" 15 goal scorer that played only PK and defensive minutes.

I would agree but the issue is that we are a team that may have a use for a really good, even if more expensive, #7 as well.

Muzzin and Sandin have had health issues. Liljegren is currently hurt as well but has generally been more durable. Giordano is 39. We are kidding ourselves if we think that we are not going to need at least our #7 to be able to come in and chew up some minutes. Holl may end up playing almost the entire season even if he is the #7... And there are not exactly great alternatives out there anymore. Stone will probably end up signing with Calgary. Stralman is still out there I guess. That is really it.

With Kerfoot, we are downgrading on an every day spot but we have more internal and UFA options available to replace and possibly even upgrade him. There are already debates about whether a spot should go to Malgin or Robertson when both look like they could replace Kerfoot right now.

I guess it comes down to whether the Leafs can live without a 20+ minute RD who may not play every day or an everyday 15 minute middle-6 two-way center-winger more, and I would vote that we can live without the latter if all else is the same.

Now if a solid defensive option presents itself on the waiver wire, or the offers for Holl make more sense than the ones for Kerfoot, then maybe the situation changes.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Matt Barzal re-signs for 8 x 9.15 mill.

 

[andora]

Vancouver keeps getting brought up

Potentially something around holl and burroughs

Burroughs has held steady, fit for a 7 role with physicality to his game as well, and a bit quicker than holl