Proposal: Trade Thread #60

KK or Suzy in a trade for PLD?

  • Jesperi Kotkaniemi

  • Nick Suzuki


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Habs Halifax

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Why surrender an asset/draft pick? Why not simply send Weal to AHL and get cap relief?

Situation 1 (-$366k of cap space):
* Weal as the 13th forward. Still cost us $325k of cap space
* Mete as the 7th D man
* 22 man roster
We are over the cap and not even a 23 man roster.

Situation 2 ($8k or -$108k of cap space):

* Send Weal to AHL where it still cost us $325k of cap space
* Use Balzile as the 13th forward ($700k) or sign Kovalchuk or Perry at $800k
* Mete as the 7th D man
* 22 man roster
We are at the cap or over the cap and not even a 23 man roster.

Situation 3 ($233k of cap space):
* Add a 3rd and trade Weal
* Sign Kovalchuk or Perry at $800k
* Mete as the 7th D man
* 22 man roster
22 man roster with $233k of cap space is much better flexibility.

Any space we can create, we should. Some say move Byron but I think we need to move Weal first. If it cost us a 3rd to move Weal, it's going to cost us a 1st to move Byron this off season. Lets worry about Byron next year (beginning of the off season, not the end of it). We have to consider that Suzuki, KK, and Romanov are on ELC where they could reach bonus targets. Deferring that to 21/22 is also a bad idea.

I value the 3rd rounder but not going to cry about it. Cap space needs to be managed carefully. This is a move I see Bergevin making
 
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Mario Lemieux fan 66

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What?

No way in hell we lose a very valuable 2nd round pick for a player who's decent, and not that expensive.

The tighter we get to the cap, the more opportunities our prospects like Ylonen, Romanov, Norlinder, Tuck and Struble will get to round-up our line-up. You don't give up a 2nd round pick unless you're getting a solid addition back.

Byron is a very expensive 4th liner. You can't pay a guy 3.5 millions to play on the 4th line. He needs to go now. You need his cap hit to retain two out of 3 of Danault, Tatar and Armia.

Our prospects need to earn their spot on the team and not be given one and not be good enough to contribute or play on the 4th line instead of keeping to improve in the AHL.
 

Roadhouse

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Byron is a very expensive 4th liner. You can't pay a guy 3.5 millions to play on the 4th line. He needs to go now. You need his cap hit to retain two out of 3 of Danault, Tatar and Armia.

Our prospects need to earn their spot on the team and not be given one and not be good enough to contribute or play on the 4th line instead of keeping to improve in the AHL.

Byron "needs" to go right now? When cap space is the hottest commodity around the league? How many picks are you willing to give up "to make room for prospects"? (which wow, we've got a bunch of left wingers in the pipeline eh!!)

Absurd. We would be dealing from a position of weakness and need. We good with the cap? Keep everyone, we're going to war with 56 games over 3-4 months. There will be injuries.
 

Mario Lemieux fan 66

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Byron "needs" to go right now? When cap space is the hottest commodity around the league?

Absurd. We would be dealing from a position of weakness and need. We good with the cap? Keep everyone, we're going to war with 56 games over 3-4 months. There will be injuries.

Lehkonen or Armia, Byron, Weal, Evans, Belzile, Poehling that's 6 players for 3 spot on the 4th line if need be for depth purpose you sign a cheaper player for 1 year.

If the Habs don't want to be a one year team they need to create space to retain their top forward depth in Danault and Tatar and not their 4th line depth in Byron. A 2nd round pick would be a small price to pay to move Byron and have the cap space to sign Danault and Tatar.
 
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Roadhouse

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Lehkonen or Armia, Byron, Weal, Evans, Belzile, Poehling that's 6 players for 3 spot on the 4th line if need be for depth purpose you sign a cheaper player for 1 year.

If the Habs don't want to be one year team they need to create space to retain their top forward depth in Danault and Tatar and not their 4th line depth in Byron. A 2nd round pick would be a small price to pay to move Byron and have the cap space to sign Danault and Tatar.

The 2nd round pick is pre-COVID. Go on the main boards and see what the price is now. Very rich, especially for 5'9" Paulie Byron.

This is effectively a one-year team. Nothing wrong with that. Danault, Tatar and Armia as pending UFA? Sure. Caufield is coming in next year. More relief from Alzner buy-out. Someone off the books from the expansion draft.

There is no need to move now. Especially not from a position of weakness trying to force Byron on another team. Bergevin gets laughed at trying.
 

The Great Weal

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Situation 2 ($8k or -$108k of cap space):
* Send Weal to AHL where it still cost us $325k of cap space
* Use Balzile as the 13th forward ($700k) or sign Kovalchuk or Perry at $800k
* Mete as the 7th D man
* 22 man roster
We are at the cap or over the cap and not even a 23 man roster.
Or we can send Weal down and sign Kovalchuk/Perry at $700k and we will be under the cap(barely). Nobody is going to sign Kovalchuk. Frankly, I'd rather get a center instead like a Devin Shore or Frederik Gauthier.
 

Habs Halifax

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Lehkonen or Armia, Byron, Weal, Evans, Belzile, Poehling that's 6 players for 3 spot on the 4th line if need be for depth purpose you sign a cheaper player for 1 year.

If the Habs don't want to be one year team they need to create space to retain their top forward depth in Danault and Tatar and not their 4th line depth in Byron. A 2nd round pick would be a small price to pay to move Byron and have the cap space to sign Danault and Tatar.

I rather keep Byron for this year and move Weal. Byron has term left and I'm not sure how easy or difficult is it to move him at the end of this off season when only 9 teams have more than $4M of cap space left. I think the cost to move any contract at $3M+ is going to cost big time this off season.... especially when most teams have 21-23 man rosters already.

Byron can provide value for us this year and more than Weal. Lets worry about moving Byron next off season.... especially if it takes a 2nd or worse... a 1st. I'm on board with moving Byron but not at a 2nd cost this off season. No friggen way! If it cost us a 2nd to move Byron now, Lets move him next off season.
 

The Great Weal

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If we can really improve the team by adding a good player, then we should trade Byron. If not, I'm more than fine to keep him because he's been producing at his same rate once he wasn't injured.
 

Habs Halifax

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Or we can send Weal down and sign Kovalchuk/Perry at $700k and we will be under the cap(barely). Nobody is going to sign Kovalchuk. Frankly, I'd rather get a center instead like a Devin Shore or Frederik Gauthier.

That's situation 2 in the post you replied too. I rather a bit more flexibility and Situation 3. I'm OK with moving the 3rd. We would be left with two 2nd's, two 3rd's, three 4th's, three 5th's. We are not going to have a problem with targeting guys on our draft boards in that 3rd - 5th rounds.

22 man roster with almost $0 cap space is too tight for me. If you can get Kovalchuk for $700k, I guess that creates about $100k in space. Not going to put up a fuss with either of situation 1 or 2. And maybe Weal provides value for our AHL team.

With me, I'm not in a hurry to move Byron if it takes a 2nd. Byron can have a rebound year and you can hit better with a 2nd vs a 3rd. That could be a very bad move. If the cost to move Byron is that high, I wait till next off season and we have Byron for one more year. Same approach we took with Shaw
 

Habs Halifax

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If we can really improve the team by adding a good player, then we should trade Byron. If not, I'm more than fine to keep him because he's been producing at his same rate once he wasn't injured.

Lets say we move Byron now vs next year... what player will we sign other than guys like Perry or Kovalchuk? With me, that creates too much space and it goes unused. Would you plan on using that at the deadline? Personally, I would add the 3rd to move Weal and then sign either Perry or Kovalchuk at $700k. That creates about $333M of space and you better bet we will have injuries that creates more space. Space we can then use at the deadline. The prorated portion from whenever the deadline is to end of season will not be that high... unless we add a guy like Getzlaf. In that case, we can make them retain to make it work for us cause they would be after futures anyways

I just see it very difficult to move any contract higher than $3M at this stage. 9 teams only have more than $4M in cap space. I fear that it might take even higher than a 2nd to move Byron based on most teams having 21-23 man rosters already and most owners telling their GM's they don't want to spend any more money

Very curious to see what it takes Tampa to move Johnson
 
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Habs Halifax

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I just wonder how the season goes and what players become available at the deadline... thinking about guys with one year left on teams that might look to rebuild or retool
 

Habs Halifax

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Nobody will convince me that giving up a freaking 2nd round just to trade Byron, is good management.

I'm with you on that one. We should not be desperate to move both Byron and a 2nd IMO. Byron is a solid middle 6F or bottom 6F. What's weird to me is we move Byron but it's really only required for 21/22. Why? We can use Byron on our team this year. Who we going to sign this year with Byron's cap space? If some people say Kovalchuk or Perry, well.... we don't need to move Byron for that! We need to move Weal. I doubt Molson is having money problems. Habs have the 22nd highest actual salaries and we probably have lots of regional TV revenue. Combine that with around $25M of unused cap space over the last 3 years. Molson is not going to force Bergevin's hand financially IMO so Byron stays for one year.

I feel that 2nd round picks are much valuable vs 3rd's. Once you get past the 2nd round, 3rd - 5th rounds are wide open and we have a shit load of picks in that range. I'm moving Weal and if it takes a 3rd or 4th, make it happen. Then sign Kovalchuk or Perry at $700k or $800k.

If people are worried about space at the deadline, I wouldn't worry about that right now. If we have a great season and we might want to add a guy like Getzlaf who has one year left, we can give futures and make them retain. It happens every year. If we get stuck, then you move Byron with a 2nd as our last option, not first option.

This sounds to me like the move Shaw narrative. Wait for Byron to have a rebound year. We might actually get value next off season in that case. Even in injury seasons for Byron in the last two years, he still has prorated numbers of 40 pts and 18 goals. He is being devalued too much IMO
 
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26Mats

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Vegas needs to move coin, wonder if a swap of players might work. Just a thought, not patches though

Dave Pagiotta (I know he doesn't necessarily know what he's talking about) said Vegas would be willing to move Marchessault's 5M cap hit or Alec Martinez's 4M cap hit, since it will be difficult o move the Pacioretty or Fleury contracts.

Word is though, that they don't want to take back any cap hit on the deal. Would be so sweet to be able to use picks to move Byron and Weal in separate deals and then trade for Marchessault.

I'm happy with Eddy and Allen. But in the big picture I wish we used the cap space to snag another great player in the Toffoli, Anderson realm that wouldn't otherwise be available if not for the flat cap.

Tatar Danault Gallagher
Drouin Suzuki Toffoli
Marchessault KK Anderson

Three 2nd lines, or three 1st lines?
 
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Runner77

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Word is though, that they don't want to take back any cap hit on the deal.

How many teams would even be willing to take back any cap hit on a deal? I think league governors need to implement a measure of some sort that will allow teams enough flexibility to make deals this season otherwise, our fake trades will be even more fake than usual.
 

26Mats

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The idea we are going to start with Weal, instead of signing Kovalchuk for league minimum, is nuts.
Weal is starting the season in the AHL to be able to get Evans and another 700k player in MTL

Our top 12 is set. I would take Kovalchuk as the 13th forward at 700k in a heartbeat. But, I don't Kovalchuk would sign on for, or be happy in, that role.

In fact, if it were up to me, Kovalchuk would play LW with one of the following two duos: Suzuki and Toffoli or Kotkaniemie and Anderson - with Drouin playing LW with the other. But it's not up to me, so Byron, Lehkonen, or Armia will get the job.
 

EveryDay

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Our top 12 is set. I would take Kovalchuk as the 13th forward at 700k in a heartbeat. But, I don't Kovalchuk would sign on for, or be happy in, that role.

I would prefer another good 4th liner for 700k instead of Kovalchuk to be honest.

The goat? Or Trevor Lewis?
 

26Mats

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Both teams are looking to shed cap space. I am not sure how that will make too good of trading partners.

My hope is that Bergevin's desire to bring in another Quebecer impels him so somehow make it happen to get Marchessault - even if it means moving one of his favorites, Byron, in another deal.
 

26Mats

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I would prefer another good 4th liner for 700k instead of Kovalchuk to be honest.

The goat? Or Trevor Lewis?

I like Byron, Lehkonen, Evans, and Armia as our four "4th liners", personally. Just shows how deep our team would be.
 

EveryDay

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I like Byron, Lehkonen, Evans, and Armia as our four "4th liners", personally. Just shows how deep our team would be.

Oh I like our 4th line as well but I want another solid 4th liner in case of injury.
 

Scriptor

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Situation 1 (-$366k of cap space):
* Weal as the 13th forward. Still cost us $325k of cap space
* Mete as the 7th D man
* 22 man roster
We are over the cap and not even a 23 man roster.

Situation 2 ($8k or -$108k of cap space):

* Send Weal to AHL where it still cost us $325k of cap space
* Use Balzile as the 13th forward ($700k) or sign Kovalchuk or Perry at $800k
* Mete as the 7th D man
* 22 man roster
We are at the cap or over the cap and not even a 23 man roster.

Situation 3 ($233k of cap space):
* Add a 3rd and trade Weal
* Sign Kovalchuk or Perry at $800k
* Mete as the 7th D man
* 22 man roster
22 man roster with $233k of cap space is much better flexibility.

Any space we can create, we should. Some say move Byron but I think we need to move Weal first. If it cost us a 3rd to move Weal, it's going to cost us a 1st to move Byron this off season. Lets worry about Byron next year (beginning of the off season, not the end of it). We have to consider that Suzuki, KK, and Romanov are on ELC where they could reach bonus targets. Deferring that to 21/22 is also a bad idea.

I value the 3rd rounder but not going to cry about it. Cap space needs to be managed carefully. This is a move I see Bergevin making

If you're at 233K in Cap space with only a 22-man roster after schlepping a 3r rounder with Weal to move the veteran, you're not in a good position not to be deferring bonus money to 2021-22. Odds are Suzuki eats up the little Cap room you have left by earning most of his 425K in bonuses, if not all and then busting the Cap if all applied this year.

As bad as that sounds, KK can earn up to 2.5M in bonuses on his end and, if he has a decent year, I'd assume he easily gets half of those (haven't seen the bonus breakdown in his contract, though).

Beyond that, if Poehling progresses, Montreal would be handcuffed if they had to factor in the possibility that, by playing in the NHL, he might earn part or most of the 850K in potential bonus money.

Getting rid of Byron, even f it means trading, a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th and a 5th along with him ends up saving enough money to cover bonuses and have some left over for the IR. We're still at a 22-man roster, though.

Things get easier next year where Cap flexibility kicks in as new contracts also do and others need to be renegotiated:

1) potential 700K gone from just not re-signing Weal.
2) 2M less than this year going to the Alzner buyout.
3) Potentially losing 3.5M for one of Chiarot or Edmundson picked by the Kracken or moving one of them if they aren't.
4) Possibility of shedding Allen's 2.875M contract easily, if he isn't rather picked by the Kracken.
5) Trading Tatar and his 4.8M at the deadline, especially if Caufield can join the team after performing well in his 2nd NCAA season
6) Trading Danault and his 3.083M at the deadline, especially if Poehling or Evans stand out.
7) Moving Drouin and his 5.5M.
8) Moving Kulak and his 1.85M, especially if one of Juulsen or Fleury have clearly taken the next step.
9) Saving the 1.5M - 2M that going with a 21-man roster represents, worst case scenario.
10) Counting the 3.4M gone with Byron gone
11) Moving in from Armia and his 2.6M with the arrival of Caufield and his ELC.

Compared to this year, before counting the extra costs starting next season (2.75M more for Gallagher, .750M more for Petry, a new contract for KK, etc.), Montreal could easily save 23M plus and potentially use that money to re-sign Tatar, Danault, Kotkaniemi and pay for the already established raises to Gallagher and Petry; 5.5M + 5.5M + 4.5M +2.75M +750K + ELC replacements and bonuses associated with Suzuki (425K), Caufield, Ylonen, Juulsen, etc., plus some IR money left over.

Graduating players on ELCs like Primeau, Harris, Norlinder, etc., in subsequent years, will make for Cap space needed to re-up Suzuki. Harris and Primeau, alone, by replacing 2.875M for Allen and 3.5M for Edmundson, would provide enough money to pay Suzuki around 5M.
 
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