Speculation: Trade Speculation / Untouchable players, part II

[mpp9]

A team with Paul Martin, Matt Niskanen, Olli Maatta and Simon Despres would not have trouble getting offensive contributions from the blueline.

Yep. I don't agree a team needs a gamebreaking D-man to win a Cup. Just as you don't need an elite #1C. Boston proved that with their depth rolling their lines.

If we had Scuds/Nisky with Maatta/Despres seeing favorable matchups, I'd have no worries.

 

[KIRK]

Agreed for the most part, though there's no way San Jose is better than we are (or Boston, for that matter). San Jose is missing something (still). And not having Hertl will really hurt.




Take this with a HUGE grain of salt, but yesterday Jeff Marek was on SportsNet talking about how apparently Crosby and Gagner are friends, and that according to Marek Crosby 'has tried a few times to get Gagner on the team'. I don't really know how badly he's tried, or if any of this is true, but there you go. I've always known of the Gagner-Kane connection because of their time together in London, but this is a first that I've heard about a Crosby-Gagner connection.

Personally, I like Sam Gagner but I don't know where he fits with us. I don't like him as a playmaking winger.




For the right return, I'd have no issue dealing him. But the right return is very very high.

So, Sid will get his buddy, Geno will get his buddy, cry-baby Despres will be gone, Gladams and Letanpik will rein, and we'll be one big happy family . . .

Anyone got a gif or vid for this?

 

[KIRK]

Please go on about Martin's offensive stats.

Clearly, like everything else with the Pens, a harbinger of what's to come in the playoffs.

 

[KIRK]

Yep. I don't agree a team needs a gamebreaking D-man to win a Cup. Just as you don't need an elite #1C. Boston proved that with their depth rolling their lines.

If we had Scuds/Nisky with Maatta/Despres seeing favorable matchups, I'd have no worries.

Well, given Dan Bylsma's ability when it comes to line matching . . .

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Sid needs some more talented friends

 

[mpp9]

Well, given Dan Bylsma's ability when it comes to line matching . . .

Eh. We all know DB is gonna roll Orpik/Martin + Scuds/Letang for a vast majority of the time in the playoffs.

Was just suggesting that Nisky is less high maintenance who's more than capable of being a #4 this year with Scuds.

Let Maatta/Despres get shifts with Geno+Neal and a puck retriever and we'd be more than fine.

 

[KIRK]

Sid needs some more talented friends

His more talented friends don't want to sign here.

But, the untalented ones, Sid's friends or no, are all too eager to sing the organization's praises for a quote 'below market' contract.

 

[KIRK]

Eh. We all know DB is gonna roll Orpik/Martin + Scuds/Letang for a vast majority of the time in the playoffs.

Was just suggesting that Nisky is less high maintenance who's more than capable of being a #4 this year with Scuds.

Let Maatta/Despres get shifts with Geno+Neal and a puck retriever and we'd be more than fine.

If he's lucky, he's traded. If he's unlucky, Despres is the Pens #9 defenseman in the playoffs, a big notch below Borts, the #8, who will be an even bigger notch below the #7, Engo, whose status as #7 will last maybe 4 games before he replaces Maatta to 'stabilize' a pairing with Nisky.

Aside from that and Bylsma being bench boss, I like your plan.

 

[Shrimper]

This probably won't surprise anyone but we're not one of the best possession teams (Corsi for %). In fact, we're 20th out of 30. Behind us are teams that would expect to be there and one or two you wouldn't. It goes;

Position|Team|CF%
20th|Pittsburgh Penguins|49.4%
21st|Washington Capitals|49.3%
22nd|Columbus Blue Jackets|48.8%
23rd|New York Islanders|48.7%
24th|Nashville Predators|47.6%
25th|Colorado Avalanche|47.3%
26th|Montreal Canadiens|46.9%
27th|Calgary Flames|45.5%
28th|Edmonton Oilers|45.3%
29th|Buffalo Sabres|44.4%
30th|Toronto Maple Leafs|43.1%

On a team such as our with many talented players we should be better possession wise. One to combat this and improve it would be to stop using stretch passes and stop giving so many turnovers by players that are frequently doing it. Looking at the team the worst 5 with regards to possession aren't really a surprise. I did this with players having a min. of 10 games otherwise you can have anomaly's.

Player|Games Played|CF%
Zach Sill|19|33.7%
Chris Conner|19|36.4%
Tanner Glass|33|41.0%
Brandon Sutter|48|42.9%
Deryk Engelland|36|43.5%

Basically what I'm trying to say with these fancy stats is that it is mostly our bottom 6 that is coughing up the puck and this is where most chances come from against us. We need to get rid of a few players there and replace them with others. Sill I'd be willing to give a pass as he is a rookie. Sutter could well be brought down by his team -mates so that may have affected him but the other experience players should be doing a lot better. So not only do we need to be targeting a top line winger for Sid we also need to go for better possession players in the bottom 6 as they're hurting us.

For the record Megna and Gibbons through 15 and 13 games have a CF% of 48.9% and 51.2%. Much better. I'm not able to quantify how many goals or chances they improve us by if we were better but I'd bet it is a fair few.

 

[KIRK]

This probably won't surprise anyone but we're not one of the best possession teams (Corsi for %). In fact, we're 20th out of 30. Behind us are teams that would expect to be there and one or two you wouldn't. It goes;

Position|Team|CF%
20th|Pittsburgh Penguins|49.4%
21st|Washington Capitals|49.3%
22nd|Columbus Blue Jackets|48.8%
23rd|New York Islanders|48.7%
24th|Nashville Predators|47.6%
25th|Colorado Avalanche|47.3%
26th|Montreal Canadiens|46.9%
27th|Calgary Flames|45.5%
28th|Edmonton Oilers|45.3%
29th|Buffalo Sabres|44.4%
30th|Toronto Maple Leafs|43.1%

On a team such as our with many talented players we should be better possession wise. One to combat this and improve it would be to stop using stretch passes and stop giving so many turnovers by players that are frequently doing it. Looking at the team the worst 5 with regards to possession aren't really a surprise. I did this with players having a min. of 10 games otherwise you can have anomaly's.

Player|Games Played|CF%
Zach Sill|19|33.7%
Chris Conner|19|36.4%
Tanner Glass|33|41.0%
Brandon Sutter|48|42.9%
Deryk Engelland|36|43.5%

Basically what I'm trying to say with these fancy stats is that it is mostly our bottom 6 that is coughing up the puck and this is where most chances come from against us. We need to get rid of a few players there and replace them with others. Sill I'd be willing to give a pass as he is a rookie. Sutter could well be brought down by his team -mates so that may have affected him but the other experience players should be doing a lot better. So not only do we need to be targeting a top line winger for Sid we also need to go for better possession players in the bottom 6 as they're hurting us.

For the record Megna and Gibbons through 15 and 13 games have a CF% of 48.9% and 51.2%. Much better. I'm not able to quantify how many goals or chances they improve us by if we were better but I'd bet it is a fair few.

I wouldn't mind a winger with some skill for Sid and Kunitz to help them sustain possession by exploiting the space created or a winger with some size for Malkin and Neal to help them sustain shifts in the offensive zone like Pyatt helped Malkin last night.

Yeah, the bottom six is an issue, but the Pens possession problems don't begin or end there.

 

[Shrimper]

If Pyatt can play like last night then I'd have no problem in keeping him and letting someone go on the bottom 6. But does he have that consistency?

 

[IcedCapp]

I wouldn't mind a winger with some skill for Sid and Kunitz to help them sustain possession by exploiting the space created or a winger with some size for Malkin and Neal to help them sustain shifts in the offensive zone like Pyatt helped Malkin last night.

Yeah, the bottom six is an issue, but the Pens possession problems don't begin or end there.

What are the top6/bottom6 splits?

 

[KIRK]

If Pyatt can play like last night then I'd have no problem in keeping him and letting someone go on the bottom 6. But does he have that consistency?

He'll only have it with Malkin, who can slow the game down for him.

With anyone else, going pure north-south, no, he doesn't.

Think of it like Malone. Produced o'k with Sid but never quite had the speed to play Sid's game. With how Malkin likes to play, it allowed Malone to play to his strengths. You saw glimpses of that last night with Pyatt, who's speed may be gone but he's still got the board work and nose to go to the net.

What are the top6/bottom6 splits?

I'm curious. I'll bet that Sid's and Geno's numbers are nowhere near what we'd expect.

Was thinking last night, watching Pyatt with Geno, just how long its been since he had a game like that where he's spent so much time-- and sustained shifts-- in the offensive zone. Still say getting Kulemin would be almost as big a game changer for Geno and Neal as getting a top end playmaking winger would be for Sid and Kunitz.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If Orpik somehow manages to have a strong Olympic games, you just know he's got that 5-year extension with the Pens all but wrapped up.

 

[KIRK]

If Orpik somehow manages to have a strong Olympic games, you just know he's got that 5-year extension with the Pens all but wrapped up.

I don't think it matters.

Nisky will walk. Despres will be gone. Pens will go into next season with Scuds-Letang, Orpik-Martin, Maatta-Borts/Engo, until Harrington, Dumoulin, Pouliot, or whatever other defenseman Shero drafts earns it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't think it matters.

Nisky will walk. Despres will be gone. Pens will go into next season with Scuds-Letang, Orpik-Martin, Maatta-Borts/Engo, until Harrington, Dumoulin, Pouliot, or whatever other defenseman Shero drafts earns it.

You mean until Dumoulin, Pouliot or Harrington get yo-yo'd up and down between the AHL/NHL/press box before being dealt for a deadline rental, all while Orpik continues to play 20 minutes a night in their spot.

 

[Valarukar]

This probably won't surprise anyone but we're not one of the best possession teams (Corsi for %). In fact, we're 20th out of 30. Behind us are teams that would expect to be there and one or two you wouldn't. It goes;

Position|Team|CF%
20th|Pittsburgh Penguins|49.4%
21st|Washington Capitals|49.3%
22nd|Columbus Blue Jackets|48.8%
23rd|New York Islanders|48.7%
24th|Nashville Predators|47.6%
25th|Colorado Avalanche|47.3%
26th|Montreal Canadiens|46.9%
27th|Calgary Flames|45.5%
28th|Edmonton Oilers|45.3%
29th|Buffalo Sabres|44.4%
30th|Toronto Maple Leafs|43.1%

On a team such as our with many talented players we should be better possession wise. One to combat this and improve it would be to stop using stretch passes and stop giving so many turnovers by players that are frequently doing it. Looking at the team the worst 5 with regards to possession aren't really a surprise. I did this with players having a min. of 10 games otherwise you can have anomaly's.

Player|Games Played|CF%
Zach Sill|19|33.7%
Chris Conner|19|36.4%
Tanner Glass|33|41.0%
Brandon Sutter|48|42.9%
Deryk Engelland|36|43.5%

Basically what I'm trying to say with these fancy stats is that it is mostly our bottom 6 that is coughing up the puck and this is where most chances come from against us. We need to get rid of a few players there and replace them with others. Sill I'd be willing to give a pass as he is a rookie. Sutter could well be brought down by his team -mates so that may have affected him but the other experience players should be doing a lot better. So not only do we need to be targeting a top line winger for Sid we also need to go for better possession players in the bottom 6 as they're hurting us.

For the record Megna and Gibbons through 15 and 13 games have a CF% of 48.9% and 51.2%. Much better. I'm not able to quantify how many goals or chances they improve us by if we were better but I'd bet it is a fair few.

If you want to look at things with a possession stat use Fenwick. It has a slightly better ability to predict future goal differential.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I don't think you can put to much into the pens possession stats this year, there have been so many injuries, half of the players playing on most nights are AHL players.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't think you can put to much into the pens possession stats this year, there have been so many injuries, half of the players playing on most nights are AHL players.

This is pretty much it for almost everything. That's why I really won't even single anyone out, the teams in a holding pattern trying to get by and they even state it.

They're just blowing through roster players.

 

[SEALBound]

Why can't we have nice things?

Why can we have Bennetts, Megnas, Despres, and Bortuzzos?

Why do we get Dupuis', Orpiks, and Gladams'?

It's sad. I feel really bad for Despres...I want him traded like I wanted Jeffrey traded.

 

[MrBurghundy]

A team with Paul Martin, Matt Niskanen, Olli Maatta and Simon Despres would not have trouble getting offensive contributions from the blueline.

This is exactly why I've been wanting to trade Letang. With those 3, maybe even all 3 on different pairs, you have all you need to be able to get the puck on Crosby and Malkin's stick. We don't need a Kris Letang, and because of that it saves us money to spend toward where it's really needed, the top two lines.

Defenseman that are solid in their own zones, can pinch when necessary and keep an offensive attack going, and can get the puck out of their own zone and onto the stick of a forward. Oh and one that doesn't take stupid risks 30 times a game. That's all we need. Despres, Maatta, Martin, and Niskanen fit all of those descriptions currently. Orpik, Letang, and Engelland don't. Scuds is in the middle I think.

 

[Crafton]

i really love this trend where people guarantee that things they don't want to happen will happen.

 

[cygnus47]

I don't think you can put to much into the pens possession stats this year, there have been so many injuries, half of the players playing on most nights are AHL players.

We were in the top 5 for Fenclose until the vet D started coming back in and the forwards started to go down. Our GAA was also something like 0.2 G/G lower. When healthy, we have all the stats that a stanley cup contender has.

 

[M10]

I want Foligno or Dubinksy out of Columbus.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I want Foligno or Dubinksy out of Columbus.

We are not getting Dubinsky out of Columbus.