Speculation: Trade Speculation / Untouchable players, part II

[SEALBound]

Knowing Shero it's gonna be Despres for Ray Whitney.

 

[mpp9]

I'm pretty sure the Pens haven't been scouting a third liner for 3 months.

Ok expert. Work on your reading comprehension.

 

[pensfan71]

I'm pretty sure the Pens haven't been scouting a third liner for 3 months.

Lol, McGinn would be a top 6 winger here. Ans ROR is the perfect winger for us

 

[Ogrezilla]

What if he agreed to an extension in principal? He's the perfect winger for Sid. Speedy, good hands. Lot's of skill...

I really like Despres. I don't really like Cammy that much. I'm not saying the value is wrong. But I don't want Cammy to be our top 6 solution.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I really like Despres. I don't really like Cammy that much. I'm not saying the value is wrong. But I don't want Cammy to be our top 6 solution.

Me either

 

[66-30-33]

if we trade Despres for a rental I might explode with rage.

Despres for Hemsky, Hemsky then hurt and out rest of the season and leaves back to Edmonton in the off season.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Despres for Hemsky, Hemsky then hurt and out rest of the season and leaves back to Edmonton in the off season.

as someone who doesn't hate the idea of Hemsky if we do decide to go the rental route, ugh I just exploded with rage again

 

[Captain Hook]

Knowing Shero it's gonna be Despres for Ray Whitney.

Yeah, based on the one single trade he's made like that in his 7 years as GM here. I'll worry about that when it's a pattern. He's only made one trade like that so far and for all we know Joe Morrow got Esposito'd. Maybe Shero saw the kid wasn't everything he was cracked up to be and flipped him for a veteran and a 3rd round pick before his value fell off even more. I wish the veteran would have had more left than Brenden Morrow but still.

 

[jmelm]

What if he agreed to an extension in principal? He's the perfect winger for Sid. Speedy, good hands. Lot's of skill...

The question is a good one, for any UFA we may want to talk to if we're offering that up. Despres for a rental would be brutal. If there is a player (Cammy or someone else) that the Pens would want to extend or would look at as a UFA, then if we had permission to talk an extension, then the value goes up drastically. But permission would have to be granted, and the Pens would have to have interest in that player. It's probably a long shot, but it's possible.

 

[KIRK]

Lol, McGinn would be a top 6 winger here. Ans ROR is the perfect winger for us

Tonight's game is illustrative of why the Pens must get Sid his Neal, even at the cost of Letang, and why Geno desperately needs a guy like Kule or some other puck retriever for the playoffs.

Tonight's game also is illustrative of the issues with our bottom six, why Brooks Orpik should be euthanized, and why our coach is a buffoon as a bench boss and tactician, but I really believe that if you put Sid and Geno in the best possible position to succeed, then they're great enough to win the day in spite of the rest of that ****.

 

[66-30-33]

as someone who doesn't hate the idea of Hemsky if we do decide to go the rental route, ugh I just exploded with rage again

I would not mind him either, i've mentioned him in the past and he has been healthy for him the last few years. Has the skill and can open up space for Crosby. I rather go the long term route though, but we have Shero, he prefers short term rentals but nobody worth a damn wants to play here, so we need to go the long term route.

 

[jmelm]

Tonight's game is illustrative of why the Pens must get Sid his Neal, even at the cost of Letang, and why Geno desperately needs a guy like Kule or some other puck retriever for the playoffs.

Tonight's game also is illustrative of the issues with our bottom six, why Brooks Orpik should be euthanized, and why our coach is a buffoon as a bench boss and tactician, but I really believe that if you put Sid and Geno in the best possible position to succeed, then they're great enough to win the day in spite of the rest of that ****.

Excellent post, Kirk, and I thoroughly agree. In particular, I love the note on Brooks. This game should show, beyond a shadow of doubt, that he is absolutely replaceable, not an integral and essential part to winning, and that if we can get some nice assets back in a deal for him, we should take that package and run!

And yes: we also got schooled hardcore by Lindy Ruff. An inferior (on paper) Dallas team beat us because of their tremendous tactical play, their diligence on the forecheck and a strong defensive game, and a tremendously aggressive PK that stopped our PP right in its tracks.

I've been thinking the last week or two that for this team, at least for this season (and probably long term as well), that I would like to adopt "the best defence is offence" strategy. Tonight, as you're alluding to with getting Sid's Neal is part of a bigger picture of seeing what happens when we're not able to sustain any pressure in the offensive zone. This should be an expected outcome when you're playing a team who's playing well, and you've got guys like Kobasew and Glass and Pyatt as the wingers you're deploying. We need some more guys with skill and who can help create momentum and maintain possession in the offensive zone.

I think we all believe that our defence will be great in a few years, and it's already starting to get better. But it's not yet at the point where we're a scary team to play against from a defensive POV. So if that's the case, then what's the problem with trading Orpik and possibly Nisky or Letang to boost our forward group, knowing that our D will be substantially stronger within a couple of years anyway?

A lot of food for thought, this game has provided tonight.

 

[KIRK]

Excellent post, Kirk, and I thoroughly agree. In particular, I love the note on Brooks. This game should show, beyond a shadow of doubt, that he is absolutely replaceable, not an integral and essential part to winning, and that if we can get some nice assets back in a deal for him, we should take that package and run!

And yes: we also got schooled hardcore by Lindy Ruff. An inferior (on paper) Dallas team beat us because of their tremendous tactical play, their diligence on the forecheck and a strong defensive game, and a tremendously aggressive PK that stopped our PP right in its tracks.

I've been thinking the last week or two that for this team, at least for this season (and probably long term as well), that I would like to adopt "the best defence is offence" strategy. Tonight, as you're alluding to with getting Sid's Neal is part of a bigger picture of seeing what happens when we're not able to sustain any pressure in the offensive zone. This should be an expected outcome when you're playing a team who's playing well, and you've got guys like Kobasew and Glass and Pyatt as the wingers you're deploying. We need some more guys with skill and who can help create momentum and maintain possession in the offensive zone.

I think we all believe that our defence will be great in a few years, and it's already starting to get better. But it's not yet at the point where we're a scary team to play against from a defensive POV. So if that's the case, then what's the problem with trading Orpik and possibly Nisky or Letang to boost our forward group, knowing that our D will be substantially stronger within a couple of years anyway?

A lot of food for thought, this game has provided tonight.

FYI, I've been taking pot shots at Letang and being flippant, but when I say 'even at the cost of Letang', I mean even Letang on his game. He's the only one that's going to get us Sid's Neal, unless we completely gut the team's youth.

I just look at Toews. Playing with Hossa and Sharpe. If he's on, that line is the best in hockey. If he's not, the line still can and often will produce.

Why should Sid have to be in full blow beast mode just to have a line that maybe is as good? Same thing for Geno?

Some teams build from the net out, because that's where their strengths lie.

The Pens strength-- the one thing that distinguishes them from every other team in hockey-- is that they've got Sid and Geno, and nobody else does.

So, why not trying exploiting that advantage instead of mitigating it?

Imagine, from a matchup perspective, where on a shift you'd put out the best line in hockey with the best player in hockey flanked by two perfectly complementary players in a 'whole greater than sum of parts' way AND then could follow that with the best line in hockey with the best player in hockey flanked by two perfectly complementary players in a 'whole greater than sum of parts' way.

Because THAT is what Ray Shero COULD be doing.

If the Pens had been drafting the Hertl's and Saad's of this world, then it's a different story. Funds allocation could be more balanced. But, Shero has so much in terms of young talent on defense that either he leverages the rookie deals and controlled years or he sends Sid and Geno out there, yet again, each with an arm tied behind his back.

You saw it tonight, no?

The Stars collapsed on Sid, and he had nobody to help create a little space for him or exploit the Stars cheating towards him.

The Stars collapsed on Geno, and he'd try to force **** rather than dump the puck because he KNEW neither of his linemates would get it.

It was the Boston series in 60 minutes.

It's why I've been saying '**** it' since the 2011 deadline and calling for this strategy.

I remember 2008. Yeah, we got Gill. But, let's be honest: Shero saw what MMS was doing and said 'imagine if I had Sid out there with that kind of help'.

2011 . . . he liked his team as it was. 2012 . . . who knows if Iggy would've been enough (I have my doubts that it would've helped Sid), because the coach saw to that.

I keep saying it . . . the Pens won the cup in 2009 beating the three worst defensive teams in the East, avoided NJ and Boston, and then got Detroit with Datsyuk hurt (which created huge matchup advantages for Geno and Staal).

That, in conjunction with 2008, taught Shero that Sid and Geno can make due with less. What it should've taught Shero is that putting Sid and Geno in the best position to succeed makes team success more likely all outside factors being equal.

That latter lesson Shero is one Shero has refused to acknowledge or notice ever since.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Tang for Eberle
Orpik for Kulemin

Kunitz - Crosby - Eberle
Kulemin - Malkin - Neal
Jokinen - Sutter - Bennett
Megna - Vitale - Adams

Scuderi - Niskanen
Despres - Martin
Maatta - Bortuzzo

Fleury
Zatkoff

 

[ColePens]

Anyone wanna fire up a new thread?

 

[Tompa8989*]

Despres for Hemsky, Hemsky then hurt and out rest of the season and leaves back to Edmonton in the off season.

as someone who doesn't hate the idea of Hemsky if we do decide to go the rental route, ugh I just exploded with rage again

I would not like to see Hemsky in Pittsburgh...He is on the downside of his career and it would be a terrible trade no matter what.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Bruce, never met a donut I don't like, Garrioch thinks Miller is going to be moved soon.

I think some team is going to grossly over pay for him and probably lose him via free agency, someone like Minnesota for example.



The thing that annoys me is that no winger is going to make this team better, the best move for this team would be to fire Bylsma and get a coach in there that understands systems, strategies, etc.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Hemsky is a band-aid. We need to stop putting band-aids on the situation and hoping it'll go away by itself. If we want to shore up the winger situation, we're gonna need to give quality to get quality. Get Sid someone he can gel with for the next decade, a la Geno and Neal. If that costs us Letang, so be it.

But I agree, with Honour. Get a new ****ing coach, too.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hemsky is a band-aid. We need to stop putting band-aids on the situation and hoping it'll go away by itself. If we want to shore up the winger situation, we're gonna need to give quality to get quality. Get Sid someone he can gel with for the next decade, a la Geno and Neal. If that costs us Letang, so be it.

But I agree, with Honour. Get a new ****ing coach, too.

You get a solid winger, next year, Dupuis healthy, how much do you want to bet Bylsma puts Dupuis back up there?

The biggest problem on this team is coaching, not wingers. Fix that, any changes made then, might actually work even better because there is a coach that knows how to use the players and employ proper coaching strategies that this current coach doesn't.

It's what worries me most about this team, Shero makes big trades every now and then and then the players are used horribly, then it's us saying either "Well that guy sucked" or "Well damn, Bylsma screwed that pooch!"

It's more the latter than the former.

IF Shero goes out, trades a solid young player for a winger that Bylsma misuses and the team fails and Bylsma is still around and Mario & Burkle don't have both fired, I feel very sorry for Sid & Geno for signing those contracts.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

But...

If we are talking about players this team might be able to land. I think Evander Kane is at the top of the list, he's the "Bobby Ryan" that the team should have traded for. As in, the young winger that Shero could go after, by dangling Kris Letang, and it being one of those moves where both teams end up with a win/win situation.

I think with that, the Jets fan flip Byfuglien (2yrs left on his contract) to Chicago for someone like Pirri (a cap dump like Rozy)and some picks, which could give the Jets the depth down the middle they really are desperate for.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Hemsky is a band-aid. We need to stop putting band-aids on the situation and hoping it'll go away by itself. If we want to shore up the winger situation, we're gonna need to give quality to get quality. Get Sid someone he can gel with for the next decade, a la Geno and Neal. If that costs us Letang, so be it.

But I agree, with Honour. Get a new ****ing coach, too.

Even if we want to trade Letang, I just can't see it happening mid-season. There are too many teams who would refuse to get into the conversation because they don't want to make such a major shakeup mid-season.

If we want to improve the team this season, it is either going to cost too much in young assets, or it is going to be band-aid solutions. I'd rather a few cheap bandaids followed by a real fix this summer than throwing away a guy like Despres for a mediocre upgrade.

But...

If we are talking about players this team might be able to land. I think Evander Kane is at the top of the list, he's the "Bobby Ryan" that the team should have traded for. As in, the young winger that Shero could go after, by dangling Kris Letang, and it being one of those moves where both teams end up with a win/win situation.

I think with that, the Jets fan flip Byfuglien (2yrs left on his contract) to Chicago for someone like Pirri (a cap dump like Rozy)and some picks, which could give the Jets the depth down the middle they really are desperate for.

This is exactly what I mean. That's just too many moving parts to be likely mid-season. And even after they move Buff, a RHS offensive d-man is not a priority for them. They still have two really good right d-men without Buff. If they are moving Buff, its because they have too many right D, or because they want a stable d-man instead of an offensive d-man who makes a lot of questionable plays in his own end. Letang just seems like a horrible fit for them.

 

[busta9]

Shero should go after ryan miller since it sounds like he may not want to stay in buffalo.

Fleury+ for miller

 

[Ogrezilla]

Shero should go after ryan miller since it sounds like he may not want to stay in buffalo.

Fleury+ for miller

and when Miller walks in June, Zatkoff is our starter next year. I love it.

Really though, this off-season might be a time to find a goalie. Halak, Miller and Hiller will likely be available.

 

[JTG]

if we trade Despres for a rental I might explode with rage.

I endorse this message.

 

[End of Line]

Part III is up.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1591131