IcedCapp
Registered User
- Aug 7, 2009
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Last year, as we approached the trade deadline (in our pursuit of Iginla) I created a post discussing the "regrettability" factor in trading any of the Penguins players.
Basically, "how much would/could we regret this in the future." I'm doing it again this year but combining it with a topic that's been pretty "hot" the past few weeks: untouchable players. This is obviously speculative on our part, since we can't know exactly what the organization is thinking, but ... who cares!
Regrettable Scale: 1 (Craig Adams) - 10 (James Neal)
The untouchables
1. Sidney Crosby/Evgeni Malkin (1000000) - Both untouchable, neither will be traded, both would make you regret it in the morning.
2. James Neal (10) - There are few wingers in the league better than James Neal, and maybe none better for Evgeni Malkin's RW. He's a 40-goal scorer and a PPG player who has not only shown a remarkable scoring touch and chemistry with Malkin, but has taken the next step in improving his grit and physicality.
Not Untouchable, but pretty darn close
3. Olli Maatta - (9) Already in the NHL at age 19, the kid has the physical tools and hockey IQ that could see him playing top-pairing minutes in the not-so-distant future. His age, skill set and contract combine to make him one of the most-valuable assets in the organization, and not one they will be in a hurry to move.
4. Kris Letang - (8.5) One of the most physically gifted players in the NHL, Letang's issues - if there are any - are between the ears. One of the most polarizing players among fans, Letang has the ability to turn defense into offense as fast as anyone in the league. While the Pens are rich in defensive prospects, they don't have anyone like Letang waiting in the wings.
A big part in his ranking is his regrettability score. If Letang were to be traded to another team and that team was able to reign him in, turning him into a 60pt d-man who can bring a consistent defensive game and physical edge? It would be worse than any fleecing Shero has pulled off.
5. Paul Martin (8) - While not as flashy as Letang, many would argue that Martin is the Penguins' best defenseman. A steady player who can play 25-minutes+ a game while shutting down the opposition's top lines AND providing a calming presence on the top PP unit, Martin went from whipping boy to underpaid in just over a season.
Martin's regrettability score is not based in the fact that he would move on to become a better player, but simply the fact that he is one of the Penguins' best, and losing him would leave a gigantic hole on the back-end.
6. Chris Kunitz (8) - Similar to Martin- Kunitz's RS is based on the hole he'd leave on the roster if the Penguins were to move him. At 34 he's likely about to hit a downturn in performance, but for now, he's likely the "Crosby's Neal" everyone has been pining for.
7. Beau Bennett (8) - Perhaps an awkward inclusion for some, Bennett's inability to stay on the ice has tarnished him in the eyes of some Penguins fans.
When healthy, Bennett has proven that he can not only play the RW with Crosby or the LW with Malkin, but look like he belongs while doing it. His smarts, responsible play and grittiness make him effective on any line, but his hockey IQ and creativity make him a perfect, much-needed match for the two superstar centers.
Moving Bennett would be filling one hole and creating another.
8. Derrick Pouliot (8) - Pouliot showed why the Penguins drafted him so high at the WJC, where he was Canada's best player over the course of the tournament.
PPQB, smart, good decision making, a good shot, and not an abject failure in his own end, Pouliot will bring something to the Penguins back end that they haven't had since Sergai Gonchar ole'd his way to Ottawa.
9. Scott Harrington (8) - Smart, great awareness, good skating, good along the boards. Harrington will likely never light the world on fire, but he should be the perfect replacement for Rob Scuderi down the road.
Touchable, but only for the right price
10. Simon Despres (8) - big, strong, physical, good skater. Whatever. My love for Despres is well-documented. I'd have him in the previous tier, but I don't think the Penguins feel the same way, and I'm trying to keep this fair/"honest."
11. Brandon Sutter (6) - As with Neal, Kunitz, Bennett - Sutter has good value and would likely be coveted by more than one team, but moving him for a winger would only create another hole at 3C. Some would argue that's a fair trade, but it's likely one that Ray Shero isn't interested in pursuing. I don't have Sutter's RS as high, simply because I think he is what he is: a good 3rd-line center. I don't think there's any untapped potential there. The team DOES need to help him out with better wingers, though.
12. Brian Dumoulin (8) - So I haven't been all that impressed with what I've seen from Dumoulin, but the team and many observers have been. He's big (6'3, 200lbs) and a good skater. He doesn't have a mean streak (though I'm sure he could develop) and the team trusts him on the PK and the PP. This score and position is a mix of my thoughts (i'd have him lower) and the team's thoughts (they'd likely have him higher).
13. Matt Niskanen (6) - A throwaway before the season, Niskanen has shown that, while he shouldn't be counted on to be a consistent top-4 guy, he's able to occasionally flash a brilliant performance. I have his RS this high because while moving him would allow someone I want to see play (Bortuzzo) to get into the lineup, Niskanen provides nice depth in the even of injuries to Martin and Letang. He's able to step up on the PP, he's not soft, and he can move the puck.
The biggest questions around Niskanen will be answered in the playoffs.
14. Brooks Orpik (4) - a veteran leader and a physical presence, Bruce has been a fixture on the Penguins back end since before the league was founded. To many, Orpik seems to be on the tail end of his career (and falling rapidly), but it's clear that the team (and others around the league) still hold him in high regard. Moving him would likely open up the spot for a cheaper, younger, better player, and I don't see him going on to anothert team and making a huge difference, but ... okay.
15. Robert Bortuzzo (6) - Bort will never put up big offensive numbers, but he is big, physical, and has a lovely mean streak. That, combined with his skating ability, make him ideal to be the eventual replacement for someone like Brooks Orpik. Given his age and contract status, I think losing Bort would likely be more regrettable than losing someone like Orpik. I also think Bortuzzo can continue to get better with playing time.
Touch, PLEASE!!!!
16. Jussi Jokinen (5) - A consistent player who provided some much-needed offense leading up to the playoffs in 2012, Jokinen has been a perfectly acceptable player on the Penguins roster. But he's a soon-to-be UFA who won't get a sniff on Crosby's line, isn't ideal for Malkin's line and doesn't have enough grit for Sutter's line, so the Penguins will likely move on from him in the off-season rather than pay him $3MM to be an awkward fit on a roster in need of some tweaking. I'm not sure Jokinen has much value to begin with, but if the right deal came along, I'm sure the Pens would pursue it.
17. Tanner Glass, Craig Adams (-10) - **** off
Not mentioned:
Marc-Andre Fleury (???) - He has value, but the Penguins cannot move him. Maybe they look to Ryan Miller in the off-season, but for the rest of this season, Fleury's presence on the roster is as necessary as anyone's.
Rob Scuderi (5) - I didn't want Scuderi brought in in the first place, and I don't think, to-date, he's proven me wrong, but he (along with the rest of the defense) has been injured for much of the season, so what I'll say is this: the Penguins just signed him. They aren't trading him.
The Goalie Prospects (???) - I don't know much about them, because they aren't biscuit-minded goal scorer things, so I don't pay attention, but the team made a concerted effort to improve organizational depth at G. They aren't going to move it now.
JOE VICTORY (1,000,000,000,000,000) - No point in moving him, really. And unlike years past, Vitale has earned Bylsma's trust, centering the 4th line, getting time at 1RW, playing on the 3rd line, etc... He's cheap, he's great at face-offs, and he's a ball of energy. Perfect 4th liner.
Megna, Gibbons, Conner, Sill, Zolnierczyk - The Pens AHL depth has been vital to their successes this year. They likely don't have a lot of value league-wide, so it would be prudent to keep them around (especially Gibbons and Megna) to see just how high their ceilings can go.
Basically, "how much would/could we regret this in the future." I'm doing it again this year but combining it with a topic that's been pretty "hot" the past few weeks: untouchable players. This is obviously speculative on our part, since we can't know exactly what the organization is thinking, but ... who cares!
Regrettable Scale: 1 (Craig Adams) - 10 (James Neal)
The untouchables
1. Sidney Crosby/Evgeni Malkin (1000000) - Both untouchable, neither will be traded, both would make you regret it in the morning.
2. James Neal (10) - There are few wingers in the league better than James Neal, and maybe none better for Evgeni Malkin's RW. He's a 40-goal scorer and a PPG player who has not only shown a remarkable scoring touch and chemistry with Malkin, but has taken the next step in improving his grit and physicality.
Not Untouchable, but pretty darn close
3. Olli Maatta - (9) Already in the NHL at age 19, the kid has the physical tools and hockey IQ that could see him playing top-pairing minutes in the not-so-distant future. His age, skill set and contract combine to make him one of the most-valuable assets in the organization, and not one they will be in a hurry to move.
4. Kris Letang - (8.5) One of the most physically gifted players in the NHL, Letang's issues - if there are any - are between the ears. One of the most polarizing players among fans, Letang has the ability to turn defense into offense as fast as anyone in the league. While the Pens are rich in defensive prospects, they don't have anyone like Letang waiting in the wings.
A big part in his ranking is his regrettability score. If Letang were to be traded to another team and that team was able to reign him in, turning him into a 60pt d-man who can bring a consistent defensive game and physical edge? It would be worse than any fleecing Shero has pulled off.
5. Paul Martin (8) - While not as flashy as Letang, many would argue that Martin is the Penguins' best defenseman. A steady player who can play 25-minutes+ a game while shutting down the opposition's top lines AND providing a calming presence on the top PP unit, Martin went from whipping boy to underpaid in just over a season.
Martin's regrettability score is not based in the fact that he would move on to become a better player, but simply the fact that he is one of the Penguins' best, and losing him would leave a gigantic hole on the back-end.
6. Chris Kunitz (8) - Similar to Martin- Kunitz's RS is based on the hole he'd leave on the roster if the Penguins were to move him. At 34 he's likely about to hit a downturn in performance, but for now, he's likely the "Crosby's Neal" everyone has been pining for.
7. Beau Bennett (8) - Perhaps an awkward inclusion for some, Bennett's inability to stay on the ice has tarnished him in the eyes of some Penguins fans.
When healthy, Bennett has proven that he can not only play the RW with Crosby or the LW with Malkin, but look like he belongs while doing it. His smarts, responsible play and grittiness make him effective on any line, but his hockey IQ and creativity make him a perfect, much-needed match for the two superstar centers.
Moving Bennett would be filling one hole and creating another.
8. Derrick Pouliot (8) - Pouliot showed why the Penguins drafted him so high at the WJC, where he was Canada's best player over the course of the tournament.
PPQB, smart, good decision making, a good shot, and not an abject failure in his own end, Pouliot will bring something to the Penguins back end that they haven't had since Sergai Gonchar ole'd his way to Ottawa.
9. Scott Harrington (8) - Smart, great awareness, good skating, good along the boards. Harrington will likely never light the world on fire, but he should be the perfect replacement for Rob Scuderi down the road.
Touchable, but only for the right price
10. Simon Despres (8) - big, strong, physical, good skater. Whatever. My love for Despres is well-documented. I'd have him in the previous tier, but I don't think the Penguins feel the same way, and I'm trying to keep this fair/"honest."
11. Brandon Sutter (6) - As with Neal, Kunitz, Bennett - Sutter has good value and would likely be coveted by more than one team, but moving him for a winger would only create another hole at 3C. Some would argue that's a fair trade, but it's likely one that Ray Shero isn't interested in pursuing. I don't have Sutter's RS as high, simply because I think he is what he is: a good 3rd-line center. I don't think there's any untapped potential there. The team DOES need to help him out with better wingers, though.
12. Brian Dumoulin (8) - So I haven't been all that impressed with what I've seen from Dumoulin, but the team and many observers have been. He's big (6'3, 200lbs) and a good skater. He doesn't have a mean streak (though I'm sure he could develop) and the team trusts him on the PK and the PP. This score and position is a mix of my thoughts (i'd have him lower) and the team's thoughts (they'd likely have him higher).
13. Matt Niskanen (6) - A throwaway before the season, Niskanen has shown that, while he shouldn't be counted on to be a consistent top-4 guy, he's able to occasionally flash a brilliant performance. I have his RS this high because while moving him would allow someone I want to see play (Bortuzzo) to get into the lineup, Niskanen provides nice depth in the even of injuries to Martin and Letang. He's able to step up on the PP, he's not soft, and he can move the puck.
The biggest questions around Niskanen will be answered in the playoffs.
14. Brooks Orpik (4) - a veteran leader and a physical presence, Bruce has been a fixture on the Penguins back end since before the league was founded. To many, Orpik seems to be on the tail end of his career (and falling rapidly), but it's clear that the team (and others around the league) still hold him in high regard. Moving him would likely open up the spot for a cheaper, younger, better player, and I don't see him going on to anothert team and making a huge difference, but ... okay.
15. Robert Bortuzzo (6) - Bort will never put up big offensive numbers, but he is big, physical, and has a lovely mean streak. That, combined with his skating ability, make him ideal to be the eventual replacement for someone like Brooks Orpik. Given his age and contract status, I think losing Bort would likely be more regrettable than losing someone like Orpik. I also think Bortuzzo can continue to get better with playing time.
Touch, PLEASE!!!!
16. Jussi Jokinen (5) - A consistent player who provided some much-needed offense leading up to the playoffs in 2012, Jokinen has been a perfectly acceptable player on the Penguins roster. But he's a soon-to-be UFA who won't get a sniff on Crosby's line, isn't ideal for Malkin's line and doesn't have enough grit for Sutter's line, so the Penguins will likely move on from him in the off-season rather than pay him $3MM to be an awkward fit on a roster in need of some tweaking. I'm not sure Jokinen has much value to begin with, but if the right deal came along, I'm sure the Pens would pursue it.
17. Tanner Glass, Craig Adams (-10) - **** off
Not mentioned:
Marc-Andre Fleury (???) - He has value, but the Penguins cannot move him. Maybe they look to Ryan Miller in the off-season, but for the rest of this season, Fleury's presence on the roster is as necessary as anyone's.
Rob Scuderi (5) - I didn't want Scuderi brought in in the first place, and I don't think, to-date, he's proven me wrong, but he (along with the rest of the defense) has been injured for much of the season, so what I'll say is this: the Penguins just signed him. They aren't trading him.
The Goalie Prospects (???) - I don't know much about them, because they aren't biscuit-minded goal scorer things, so I don't pay attention, but the team made a concerted effort to improve organizational depth at G. They aren't going to move it now.
JOE VICTORY (1,000,000,000,000,000) - No point in moving him, really. And unlike years past, Vitale has earned Bylsma's trust, centering the 4th line, getting time at 1RW, playing on the 3rd line, etc... He's cheap, he's great at face-offs, and he's a ball of energy. Perfect 4th liner.
Megna, Gibbons, Conner, Sill, Zolnierczyk - The Pens AHL depth has been vital to their successes this year. They likely don't have a lot of value league-wide, so it would be prudent to keep them around (especially Gibbons and Megna) to see just how high their ceilings can go.
