Speculation: Trade Speculation / Untouchable players, part II

[Crosberry87]

Kris Letang

for

Ryan O'Reilly
Jamie McGinn

Kunitz - Crosby - O'Reilly
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal
McBain - Sutter - Bennett
Vigladams
Megna

Orpik Martin
Maata Niskanen
Scuderi Bortuzzo
Engelland, Despres

 

[mpp9]

McBain isn't on the Avs, and he isn't a forward.

And I doubt they can afford to give up McGinn in addition to ROR. They'd have too many of the same type of player up front.

 

[Muscles4Malkin]

I realize it's mostly a matter of what Disco is comfortable with, as you said... but wasn't the Stanley Cup roster almost all LHD?

Yes, Letang and Boucher were only RHD.

 

[Crosberry87]

McBain isn't on the Avs, and he isn't a forward.

And I doubt they can afford to give up McGinn in addition to ROR. They'd have too many of the same type of player up front.

Lol I'm a bonehead, thats what I meant
If they need another forward coming back, I'd package Megna in the deal if they give us back a prospect

 

[Ogrezilla]

I honestly don't think Letang is going to finish his contract in Pittsburgh. I think this was the best way for Shero to maximize value. But I also don't see him moving him during the season.

The other big issue here that people haven't really discussed is moving either Letang or Niskanen results in icing a nearly all LHS defense.

Based on the play on the PK, I don't think this is something Bylsma would be comfortable with.

I don't see a Letang trade happening mid-season either.

I hadn't really thought of the LHS/RHS as much as which side of the ice they play on. But if Letang or Nisky goes, it would slide Bortuzzo back into the line-up. That's a wash in terms of handedness.

 

[chethejet]

Allowing for Shero and he knows what he is doing stance most take on here. He could be wrong. Not all things work out as hoped. Letang is a top end talent that may not be needed on this roster. Would I trade him for a winger for Sid yes. did Shero make a bad decision to extend Letang no. But I am not sure that was his best option. I certainly would have traded him to Colorado for the number 1 pick last year if that was an option.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I realize it's mostly a matter of what Disco is comfortable with, as you said... but wasn't the Stanley Cup roster almost all LHD?

Letang was the only righty I believe. Scuds and Gonchar both played on the right side.

 

[IcedCapp]

I realize it's mostly a matter of what Disco is comfortable with, as you said... but wasn't the Stanley Cup roster almost all LHD?

I'm just going with what I've seen. When Despres was up here, he got plenty of PK time when he was a top-4 LHS. But when he was a 5/6 LHS, Engelland would get PK time.

In fact, there's only one LHS who gets RHS PK time, and that's Paul Martin.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm just going with what I've seen. When Despres was up here, he got plenty of PK time when he was a top-4 LHS. But when he was a 5/6 LHS, Engelland would get PK time.

In fact, there's only one LHS who gets RHS PK time, and that's Paul Martin.

If we have Nisky, Martin and Bortuzzo to PK on the right side, where's the problem? Its the same numbers as Nisky, Letang and Martin.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Letang and Boucher... thank you. I had nearly forgotten about the latter.

I completely recognize the point you're making, Cappy. I was more thinking out loud than anything else. I guess the only point I'm making, more in general than to you specifically, is that handedness (while a definite factor) probably shouldn't be a tactical deal breaker.

 

[IcedCapp]

If we have Nisky, Martin and Bortuzzo to PK on the right side, where's the problem? Its the same numbers as Nisky, Letang and Martin.

Nothing, I suppose


Especially if you believe it'll be Bortuzzo.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Nothing, I suppose


Especially if you believe it'll be Bortuzzo.

Well I don't think it would happen during the year, so I'm hoping Engo would be gone.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Assuming Shero is hell bent on moving him. What return would make you cry the least.

A skilled, young top six fwd with as much potential as Despres.

Etem isn't anything close to that IMHO.

I'd rather take my chances with BB, Megna and Hemsky (who is the best buy low/high reward skilled fwd out there).

I think Shero trading Despres will be a move we all regret.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think Shero trading Despres will be a move we all regret.

Yup.

And I'll echo the sentiment that Etem isn't really very good. At least in the context of what this team needs and already has. I'd be extremely disappointed if that was the kind of deal Despres was involved in.

 

[chethejet]

The pressure of winning is not related to playing experienced defense men who are average at best. Orpik can be replaced by Despres and I have never and will never see the value of a defense men who just gets eaten alive on the boards like Martin. He is really pedestrian and those of you who have this nonsensical view that he is their best D man forget he is injury prone, has lost his shot and now has the speed of a turtle. Trade him while he has relative value. My fear is Shero extends him and we watch his modest skills go south.

 

[SEALBound]

I thought Palmieri was the guy we all wanted from the Ducks...and the Ducks were okay with that....and that Etem is better and the Ducks say no way. So where's that leave Palmieri?

Personally, I'm with the group that thinks we should't be trading Despres. And this is looking forward for both the playoffs and the next couple seasons. I'm under the idea that the return we get for Despres (barring from amazing package and score from Shero like...Despres+pick for Kane ala the Kunitz/Neal trade) isn't going to be the impact player that puts this team over the top. Palmieri, Etem, McGinn...IMHO, aren't gonna be those guys. They would add some serious depth, no doubt, but it's not whats gonna take us to another Cup.

That is because of a couple things: 1. The loss of Staal. Let me explain: Staal was by far the best 3C in the league in 2009. Cooke-Staal-Kennedy was the best 3rd line in league. The line had everything. Grit, skill, defense, some speed. That line could go out at anytime for anything. Now we have Sutter filling the role. While he does fairly well, there's no denying that the 3rd line is no longer a strength for us. The 3C model is gone. C-Sutter-K was a significant downgrade from C-Staal-K. Now, we the 3rd line wingers we have, it's only purpose is to be on the ice, play the game, not get scored on while Sid and Geno take a break. Because this is no longer a strength and the odds of getting another Staal type player is slim...we need to beef up the Top 6 to help even us back out. Back when we had Staal, we could get away with not having amazing wings because we could ice 3 lines that could hurt you. That's no longer a reality.

2. Letang and our transition game / the way we play with him in the line up. It's no secret that when we are healthy and Letang is in the line up, we play more run and gun, less structured, less disciplined defense. A lot more risks, looking for way more odd mans, more turnovers, but...at times it does lead to more goals. But is that what we need? IMHO, no. We need disciplined defensive play and less turnovers. Now, they plays DB's system in WB/S and it's clear that the prospects/call ups know and understand the system and they have the discipline to play it. That is why, I believe, they were so successful when we were hurt. I'd love to see the stats on when we were hurt with (understandably) more disciplined rookies with GAA and when we are healthy. Lately, giving up 3-6 goals...against meh teams...that's not gonna win us a Cup. We are playing the way we did in 2012 when we got Sid back and it was complete freelance hockey. Yeah, scoring 5-6goals but giving up 3-6 goals...how many times does it have to happen before we learn? So, the point of this being...if you trade Letang for an impact player, like Kane, Eberle, ROR (my vote lol), and put a more risk adverse yet skilled dman like Despres into the system, you'll not only have the offense to help break past teams like Boston, but you'll still have the same defensive system with more structure (due to the youth 1. buying into the system and 2. being weary of deterring from that system).

Very much not convinced that Letang helps us win another Cup. What he brings vs. his return would bring...is heavily favored toward the return to me. Especially considering the current play of Niskanen, Maatta and Despres availablity, Bortuzzo being in the system, AND having Dumo, Harrington, Pouliot, etc coming up. What we need is the impact winger that's gonna help take focus off Sid, not another undisciplined PMD that is a turnover machine. The talent we have currently on the back end minus Letang + the current offense we have + an impact winger >>>>> current defense with Letang + the current offense + the addition of a player from a rental/Despres trade.

Despres can be coached more and developed more. He's tearing it up in the AHL and I believe his lack of NHL play is due more to management than merit. Letang would be a big need to a lot of NHL teams who have what we need. The hole left with Letang staying > the hole created if Letang leaves.

I believe the deals are out there right now (despite reports of a crappy trade market) to make us a Cup favorite. Right now...I don't think we are. Not with our current lineup. And I don't think adding a Moulson or Palmieri or Setoguchi is gonna do it either. Too reminisce of 2010 and 2012. Last year was on DB as far as icing the correct lineup. **** off Sid, you're getting Iginla. Dupuis, **** and get on the third line. Every minute you're out there is a gift.

Which brings me to the other point of Dupuis. Knee injuries have robbed several players of speed...and that is literally ALL that Dupuis has. Without it he offers nothing. Especially NOTHING that we be of help to Sid (the way he needs help). So what's the situation going to be next year? What if he sucks worse (lol) than this year...where do we go? We won't know. We'll have missed our opportunities to sign a UFA or make the trade if we put all our eggs in the "we hope Dupuis will return 100%" basket despite countless case studies that suggest the contrary. What you do is plan on Dupuis not being able to regain form. You plan for that. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Worse case of trading Letang for an impact wing...Kunitz-Sid-Duper, WING-Malkin-Neal. That's the worse case of making that trade. Best case, Kunitz-Sid-Wing, Kulemin-Malkin-Neal, and you have wing-Sutter-Dupuis on the third. That is the depth we need. Not Glass, Adams, Pyatt, etc filling out the 3rd line.

NOW is the time for Shero to manage the roster both for this season in the future. Take the luxury, expensive asset and get the glaring hole fixed for the considerable future. We have the roster and prospects to cover the hole on defense. We have nothing on offense. Shero needs to grow some balls and make the trades the team NEEDS...not go based on what the team wants.

 

[jmelm]

I'd rather take my chances with BB, Megna and Hemsky (who is the best buy low/high reward skilled fwd out there).

I have no interest in Hemsky, and we've already pissed away enough assets on rentals. I wouldn't want to retain Hemsky, and so I wouldn't want to rent him either. Hemsky has been mightily disappointing the last few years, he's injury prone, and he ain't getting any younger. There are other/better UFAs I'd rather take a chance with (Cammelleri, Gaborik, Vanek). And while we could probably pick up Hemsky for a 2nd or 2nd +, we don't have our 2nd this year thanks to the wonderfully brilliant Murray trade.

Etem so far looks like a good third liner. He's a nice prospect, but he won't bring a whole hell of a lot more to this org than Megna, Archibald or Wilson. All four of these guys play a tenacious game based on speed and I think Megna is actually more skilled than Etem.

Both Megna and Etem are guys who I have openly wondered about their hockey sense, but both seem to be progressing as they gain more experience.

Megna may not be as highly regarded as Etem based on how they got to the NHL, but I'm not sure exactly what Etem could do at a significantly higher level than Megna. Etem tends to skate with his head down and isn't a natural goal scorer. Etem certainly doesn't handle the puck better than Megna. Etem isn't faster than Megna or more tenacious. The only thing he has over him is a little more size.

I don't see Etem putting up 30 goals unless he has that lucky season where everything seems to go his way. So I honestly don't see anything in Etem that the Pens don't already posses in abundance on their farm.

If Shero is hell bent on moving Despres, it needs to be for a highly skilled fwd with better upside than Etem.

I don't see Megna making Etem redundant or vice-versa at all. Megna is more of a RW/C, and Etem can play either side. He's also a little bit more proven in terms of his past goal-scoring prowess, and he's not far away from taking another jump in his performance, like his great buddy Bennett. When I look at our team & prospect pool, we stil need a legit top-6 forward, and as soon as possible. I'm high on Megna and very high on Archibald, but we still need one more player. Wilson is too far away time-wise, and I'm not nearly as convinced he'll be a point producing or goal scoring forward, or even an NHLer, as those other guys. I'll have to see him play very well in WBS before I'll be truly convince of his status & upside as a prospect. Either way, he's far from being able to help us win any time in the next few years.

Like I said, Etem would not be my first choice in a trade for Despres, but Etem is going to be a very good player. Etem will be better than Dupuis (in 1-2 years), and we know how well Dupers has worked with Crosby, so a better version of that would be a great addition to our team now and eventually would replace Dupuis.

But I didn't suggest that Etem would be my ideal choice in a trade, either. Of course, I would rather get an even better player with higher upside. But it doesn't really matter how much people on here value Despres, what matters is how the Pens and other teams around the league value him. If he is seen as a potential top-pairing Dman, then we'll get a lot more for him than if he's looked at as a bottom 3 or 4. I don't sit in the room with the Pens' brass, so I don't know exactly what they truly think of him and if he fits into their plans or not. These details will really be what dictates the value of and the decision of whether or not to trade Despres.

Assuming Shero is hell bent on moving him. What return would make you cry the least.

Well, continuing with the point of not knowing exactly how Despres is valued by the Pens' own management/scouts, as well as how he's valued by other team's management/scouts, it remains possible that we don't get a blue chip player for him because Simon may not be viewed as a blue chip player by other teams.

So to answer your question: if it were me and I couldn't get an elite player for Despres, I would at least try to see what we could get if we added a 1st rounder to that package to boost the value. I'm a quality over quantity guy, so if we could get a different level of player by adding another asset, I would be willing to make that move to get into that category.

But there's no way to guess or to know. And while Etem would not be my first choice, if that was the only choice for Despres straight up, I would strongly consider that deal. Very strongly.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I have no interest in Hemsky, and we've already pissed away enough assets on rentals. I wouldn't want to retain Hemsky, and so I wouldn't want to rent him either. Hemsky has been mightily disappointing the last few years, he's injury prone, and he ain't getting any younger. There are other/better UFAs I'd rather take a chance with (Cammelleri, Gaborik, Vanek). And while we could probably pick up Hemsky for a 2nd or 2nd +, we don't have our 2nd this year thanks to the wonderfully brilliant Murray trade.

Wait, you don't want to piss away assets, but then you throw out names like Cams, Gabs and Vanek? Not following the logic here....

All the guys you mention are going to cost a lot more than Hemsky to acquire. Gaborik and Vanek will cost a first+ and I don't see how they retain them considering what they will command on the open market.

A guy like Hemsky or Stempniak will cost a lot less to acquire and significantly upgrade the talent level in the top six.

I don't see Megna making Etem redundant or vice-versa at all. Megna is more of a RW/C, and Etem can play either side. He's also a little bit more proven in terms of his past goal-scoring prowess, and he's not far away from taking another jump in his performance, like his great buddy Bennett. When I look at our team & prospect pool, we stil need a legit top-6 forward, and as soon as possible. I'm high on Megna and very high on Archibald, but we still need one more player. Wilson is too far away time-wise, and I'm not nearly as convinced he'll be a point producing or goal scoring forward, or even an NHLer, as those other guys. I'll have to see him play very well in WBS before I'll be truly convince of his status & upside as a prospect. Either way, he's far from being able to help us win any time in the next few years.

Megna can play both sides as well, not sure what makes you think he can't play LW. Etem is considered a better prospect because he is a former first round pick. But if you put them together on the same NHL team and no one knew their draft (or lack thereof) pedigree, I doubt many people would put Etem head and shoulders above Megna.

Both are fast, tenacious, willing to go to the net, and neither is a natural goal scorer or particularly deft at dishing the puck. And as I said already, Megna handles the puck better.

I'm not trying to beat Etem down too hard, but I don't see anything special there. He looks like a 2/3 tweener that like Dupes may find a scoring touch in some seasons, but I don't see him being a consistent goal scorer every season that you can count on.

In fact, I see him being a short term fan favorite for his all out play, then when the novelty of that wears off, I have little doubt he would be a Dupes level whipping boy.

Well, continuing with the point of not knowing exactly how Despres is valued by the Pens' own management/scouts, as well as how he's valued by other team's management/scouts, it remains possible that we don't get a blue chip player for him because Simon may not be viewed as a blue chip player by other teams.

So to answer your question: if it were me and I couldn't get an elite player for Despres, I would at least try to see what we could get if we added a 1st rounder to that package to boost the value. I'm a quality over quantity guy, so if we could get a different level of player by adding another asset, I would be willing to make that move to get into that category.

But there's no way to guess or to know. And while Etem would not be my first choice, if that was the only choice for Despres straight up, I would strongly consider that deal. Very strongly.

If Despres forced Shero's hand and he was forced to deal him and Etem was the best offer, that's about the only way I would want that deal.

I know Heinbuck is on record as saying the Pens don't necessarily value size on defense and they see the league moving more towards small puck movers, but I have to believe Shero isn't foolish enough to deal Despres unless he is offered a deal he can't refuse.

 

[jmelm]

Wait, you don't want to piss away assets, but then you throw out names like Cams, Gabs and Vanek? Not following the logic here....

All the guys you mention are going to cost a lot more than Hemsky to acquire. Gaborik and Vanek will cost a first+ and I don't see how they retain them considering what they will command on the open market.

A guy like Hemsky or Stempniak will cost a lot less to acquire and significantly upgrade the talent level in the top six.

Sorry, I meant to say as UFAs in the summer. I don't feel that Hemsky or Stempniak would either be significant upgrades, nor would I want to give up assets for them. I don't think they would really be game-changers for our team.

If we could not find a great young winger in a trade this season, then I would look at those other guys as potential UFA targets, cap space permitting.

Megna can play both sides as well, not sure what makes you think he can't play LW. Etem is considered a better prospect because he is a former first round pick. But if you put them together on the same NHL team and no one knew their draft (or lack thereof) pedigree, I doubt many people would put Etem head and shoulders above Megna.

Both are fast, tenacious, willing to go to the net, and neither is a natural goal scorer or particularly deft at dishing the puck. And as I said already, Megna handles the puck better.

I'm not trying to beat Etem down too hard, but I don't see anything special there. He looks like a 2/3 tweener that like Dupes may find a scoring touch in some seasons, but I don't see him being a consistent goal scorer every season that you can count on.

In fact, I see him being a short term fan favorite for his all out play, then when the novelty of that wears off, I have little doubt he would be a Dupes level whipping boy.

I'm not saying Megna can't play both sides, but the fact that Etem can as well gives us a stronger possibility that he'll be able to fit in and contribute, even in the presence of guys like Megna and Bennett who can play either side. I do particularly like Megna as a RWer though, or his ability to fill in at C perhaps down the road. Megna is more of a north-south guy and I love his speed coming down the RW.

Etem would probably instantly become our team's best skater. His pure speed is rivalled only by Megna and perhaps a healthy Dupuis. I think Etem is an even faster (and certainly more powerful) skater than Macaroni. And Etem, while he doesn't have great vision or playmaking ability, is actually not particularly bad in that area (again, I think he'll be like Dupuis at least in that regard), but he is a pure goal scorer. He's a lot like Michael Grabner, but his work ethic is more consistent. He would be an absolute beast on the forecheck, PK, and if he gets the puck in a scoring area, he's a very, very good finisher.

If Despres forced Shero's hand and he was forced to deal him and Etem was the best offer, that's about the only way I would want that deal.

I know Heinbuck is on record as saying the Pens don't necessarily value size on defense and they see the league moving more towards small puck movers, but I have to believe Shero isn't foolish enough to deal Despres unless he is offered a deal he can't refuse.

I disagree with Heinbuck there, and it sounds like you do, as well. The way I see it is: we're going to have Letang (or Niskanen) + Pouliot + Harrington (who is not 6'2, he's 6'1), I would like to "complement" those 3 with really big guys: Bortuzzo (6'4 but with a particularly long reach) Despres/Dumoulin (6'4) and Maatta (not really big, but pretty big and closer to 6'3 and a long reach for his size, as well).

I think there is room for some smaller players, but we absolutely need to have the size to clear the front of the net and go up against the Lucic, Tom Wilson, Anthony Mantha and other big guys of this league down the road as we're making our way through the playoffs.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Sorry, I meant to say as UFAs in the summer. I don't feel that Hemsky or Stempniak would either be significant upgrades, nor would I want to give up assets for them. I don't think they would really be game-changers for our team.

If we could not find a great young winger in a trade this season, then I would look at those other guys as potential UFA targets, cap space permitting.

Cams may be realistic but not the other two.

Kumy is about the most realistic target and I would be fine with that.

That means JJ walks and BB plays with Crosby.

I'm not saying Megna can't play both sides, but the fact that Etem can as well gives us a stronger possibility that he'll be able to fit in and contribute, even in the presence of guys like Megna and Bennett who can play either side. I do particularly like Megna as a RWer though, or his ability to fill in at C perhaps down the road. Megna is more of a north-south guy and I love his speed coming down the RW.

Etem would probably instantly become our team's best skater. His pure speed is rivalled only by Megna and perhaps a healthy Dupuis. I think Etem is an even faster (and certainly more powerful) skater than Macaroni. And Etem, while he doesn't have great vision or playmaking ability, is actually not particularly bad in that area (again, I think he'll be like Dupuis at least in that regard), but he is a pure goal scorer. He's a lot like Michael Grabner, but his work ethic is more consistent. He would be an absolute beast on the forecheck, PK, and if he gets the puck in a scoring area, he's a very, very good finisher.

He is playing a lot better in the A this year, but he generates a lot of chances and doesn't finish. That's what makes me nervous about him. He isn't a natural offensive player.

My fear is he would become Duper part deux.

He's just too similar to Megna, Archibald and Wilson with various degrees of ceilings.

Shero needs to find a truly skilled young fwd if he is moving Despres.

I disagree with Heinbuck there, and it sounds like you do, as well. The way I see it is: we're going to have Letang (or Niskanen) + Pouliot + Harrington (who is not 6'2, he's 6'1), I would like to "complement" those 3 with really big guys: Bortuzzo (6'4 but with a particularly long reach) Despres/Dumoulin (6'4) and Maatta (not really big, but pretty big and closer to 6'3 and a long reach for his size, as well).

I think there is room for some smaller players, but we absolutely need to have the size to clear the front of the net and go up against the Lucic, Tom Wilson, Anthony Mantha and other big guys of this league down the road as we're making our way through the playoffs.

I think Ruopp, Bort, Despres and Dumo all bring the size I want to see on their blueline, but I think only two of them will be on this roster in a few years... Be it Despres/Ruopp, Dumo/Bort, Dumo/Ruopp, etc.

I don't think we will see Ruopp/Bort together unless something goes awry with several other guys.

 

[vyktor]

I thought Palmieri was the guy we all wanted from the Ducks...and the Ducks were okay with that....and that Etem is better and the Ducks say no way. So where's that leave Palmieri?

Personally, I'm with the group that thinks we should't be trading Despres. And this is looking forward for both the playoffs and the next couple seasons. I'm under the idea that the return we get for Despres (barring from amazing package and score from Shero like...Despres+pick for Kane ala the Kunitz/Neal trade) isn't going to be the impact player that puts this team over the top. Palmieri, Etem, McGinn...IMHO, aren't gonna be those guys. They would add some serious depth, no doubt, but it's not whats gonna take us to another Cup.

That is because of a couple things: 1. The loss of Staal. Let me explain: Staal was by far the best 3C in the league in 2009. Cooke-Staal-Kennedy was the best 3rd line in league. The line had everything. Grit, skill, defense, some speed. That line could go out at anytime for anything. Now we have Sutter filling the role. While he does fairly well, there's no denying that the 3rd line is no longer a strength for us. The 3C model is gone. C-Sutter-K was a significant downgrade from C-Staal-K. Now, we the 3rd line wingers we have, it's only purpose is to be on the ice, play the game, not get scored on while Sid and Geno take a break. Because this is no longer a strength and the odds of getting another Staal type player is slim...we need to beef up the Top 6 to help even us back out. Back when we had Staal, we could get away with not having amazing wings because we could ice 3 lines that could hurt you. That's no longer a reality.

2. Letang and our transition game / the way we play with him in the line up. It's no secret that when we are healthy and Letang is in the line up, we play more run and gun, less structured, less disciplined defense. A lot more risks, looking for way more odd mans, more turnovers, but...at times it does lead to more goals. But is that what we need? IMHO, no. We need disciplined defensive play and less turnovers. Now, they plays DB's system in WB/S and it's clear that the prospects/call ups know and understand the system and they have the discipline to play it. That is why, I believe, they were so successful when we were hurt. I'd love to see the stats on when we were hurt with (understandably) more disciplined rookies with GAA and when we are healthy. Lately, giving up 3-6 goals...against meh teams...that's not gonna win us a Cup. We are playing the way we did in 2012 when we got Sid back and it was complete freelance hockey. Yeah, scoring 5-6goals but giving up 3-6 goals...how many times does it have to happen before we learn? So, the point of this being...if you trade Letang for an impact player, like Kane, Eberle, ROR (my vote lol), and put a more risk adverse yet skilled dman like Despres into the system, you'll not only have the offense to help break past teams like Boston, but you'll still have the same defensive system with more structure (due to the youth 1. buying into the system and 2. being weary of deterring from that system).

Very much not convinced that Letang helps us win another Cup. What he brings vs. his return would bring...is heavily favored toward the return to me. Especially considering the current play of Niskanen, Maatta and Despres availablity, Bortuzzo being in the system, AND having Dumo, Harrington, Pouliot, etc coming up. What we need is the impact winger that's gonna help take focus off Sid, not another undisciplined PMD that is a turnover machine. The talent we have currently on the back end minus Letang + the current offense we have + an impact winger >>>>> current defense with Letang + the current offense + the addition of a player from a rental/Despres trade.

Despres can be coached more and developed more. He's tearing it up in the AHL and I believe his lack of NHL play is due more to management than merit. Letang would be a big need to a lot of NHL teams who have what we need. The hole left with Letang staying > the hole created if Letang leaves.

I believe the deals are out there right now (despite reports of a crappy trade market) to make us a Cup favorite. Right now...I don't think we are. Not with our current lineup. And I don't think adding a Moulson or Palmieri or Setoguchi is gonna do it either. Too reminisce of 2010 and 2012. Last year was on DB as far as icing the correct lineup. **** off Sid, you're getting Iginla. Dupuis, **** and get on the third line. Every minute you're out there is a gift.

Which brings me to the other point of Dupuis. Knee injuries have robbed several players of speed...and that is literally ALL that Dupuis has. Without it he offers nothing. Especially NOTHING that we be of help to Sid (the way he needs help). So what's the situation going to be next year? What if he sucks worse (lol) than this year...where do we go? We won't know. We'll have missed our opportunities to sign a UFA or make the trade if we put all our eggs in the "we hope Dupuis will return 100%" basket despite countless case studies that suggest the contrary. What you do is plan on Dupuis not being able to regain form. You plan for that. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Worse case of trading Letang for an impact wing...Kunitz-Sid-Duper, WING-Malkin-Neal. That's the worse case of making that trade. Best case, Kunitz-Sid-Wing, Kulemin-Malkin-Neal, and you have wing-Sutter-Dupuis on the third. That is the depth we need. Not Glass, Adams, Pyatt, etc filling out the 3rd line.

NOW is the time for Shero to manage the roster both for this season in the future. Take the luxury, expensive asset and get the glaring hole fixed for the considerable future. We have the roster and prospects to cover the hole on defense. We have nothing on offense. Shero needs to grow some balls and make the trades the team NEEDS...not go based on what the team wants.

Best most well reasoned thing I've read here in a long time

 

[Bishop7979]

A skilled, young top six fwd with as much potential as Despres.

Etem isn't anything close to that IMHO.

I'd rather take my chances with BB, Megna and Hemsky (who is the best buy low/high reward skilled fwd out there).

I think Shero trading Despres will be a move we all regret.

I think trading despres is a big mistake as well. In terms of buy low vs reward players id be interested in seeing what it would take to get Fleishman off of Florida. He has one more year at 4.5 after this. He could slot in with Sid and Kuntz this year and take j.j's spot next year in the top six if we decide not to resign him. Hes 29, has good speed, is a shooter with some skill. I think he'd be what Sykora was to Malkin for sid.

 

[Fire Shero*]

I think trading despres is a big mistake as well. In terms of buy low vs reward players id be interested in seeing what it would take to get Fleishman off of Florida. He has one more year at 4.5 after this. He could slot in with Sid and Kuntz this year and take j.j's spot next year in the top six if we decide not to resign him. Hes 29, has good speed, is a shooter with some skill. I think he'd be what Sykora was to Malkin for sid.

At least you are interested in a player on a non-playoff team. But again, he's a third line player. He just doesn't excite me. He's not good enough to play with Sid. Again, id take him on the third line.

I know this is crazy, but I just want Sid to play with 2 legit nhl top 6 players. Not just another third liner.

 

[Ogrezilla]

At least you are interested in a player on a non-playoff team. But again, he's a third line player. He just doesn't excite me. He's not good enough to play with Sid. Again, id take him on the third line.

I know this is crazy, but I just want Sid to play with 2 legit nhl top 6 players. Not just another third liner.

and mid-season, that is very hard to come by unless we go for an overpriced rental or move Letang. And as much as I think that's the right choice, I just don't think Shero would do it. At least not mid-season. I agree with you that we shouldn't have gotten to this point, but this is where we are. Those of us arguing for bringing in the third line complimentary types are talking about the most realistic options.

 

[Bishop7979]

At least you are interested in a player on a non-playoff team. But again, he's a third line player. He just doesn't excite me. He's not good enough to play with Sid. Again, id take him on the third line.

I know this is crazy, but I just want Sid to play with 2 legit nhl top 6 players. Not just another third liner.

I have to disagree with calling Fleishman a third line player. Hes have a sub par year on a crap Florida team but the year before the lockout, playing with vesteeg and Weiss he put up 27 goals and 61pts. During the lockout he was on a 82game pace of 20 goals and 59pts. And that year weiss missed over half the games with injury.

When you have the kind of money tied up in sid Geno Neal and kunitz a guy like flash is what you are going to get. There is no Kane, Eberle, Perry, Ryan coming to save us.

Unless you trade Letting and we all know that's not going to happen.