Speculation: Trade Speculation / Untouchable players, part II

[Sutter16]

Yeah as the last post said, Dater said the Pens do have 2 scouts at the Panthers-Avs game.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

We're just scouting the Avs because of Team USA

 

[jmelm]

Is this reasonable?

To Winnipeg: Letang (UFA 2022) + Despres (RFA 2014) + Bennett (RFA 2015)
To Pittsburgh: Kane (UFA 2018) + Byfuglien (UFA 2016)

I know Big Buff is a polarizing figure but I love him as a forward, especially in the playoffs when the rule book is thrown out the window. Evander Kane speaks for itself.

Would you like this deal? Would Winnipeg hate this deal?

Too much, and too complicated for Pittsburgh. Trading Despres AND Letang would be stupid, particularly given that it's having each of the guys in our organization the one would make the other one expendable; and although compairing Beau to Buff is almost as "apples to organges" as you can get (while still being right handed skilled forwards), I really do not want to give up our best young/prospect forward in a trade.

Ideally, I would be happy with a player for player deal. Letang for Kane would be PERFECT, and I would add a 1st rounder if needed. You could not envision a more ideal winger for our top 6 than Kane: speed out the wazoo, size and physicality, and 50 goal potential. No need to complicate this deal with additional parts. Letang+ or Despres++ for Kane would make me SUPER happy.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

According to the majority rules (assuming we're using McKenzie's list as "majority rules" since it's the closest we've got to actually knowing what other teams have them listed at), they picked the BPA on the table when they picked Esposito (ranked #8, picked 20th), Despres (ranked #18, picked 30th), Morrow (ranked #20, picked 23rd) and Maatta (ranked #10, picked 22nd).

Out of 7 first round picks under Shero, 4 of them were picked later than McKenzie's list had them ranked at. The other three were Staal, Bennett and Pouliot.

Etem was ranked higher than Bennett in 2010, but you're right about the others.

The DP reach is the only 1st rounder that I have a big problem with. Although I'd have liked Saad (ranked 22nd) over Morrow.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

Other than the Aves, we've scouted the Wild and Ducks quite a bit this year. The Ducks probably have something to do with their goaltending depth especially since the bulk of the scouting occurred before Zatkoff got signed to an extension and before the Ducks suffered a couple of injuries between the pipes. As for the Wild, Russo has said on many occasions that they're looking for help on D... preferably a righthanded D (enter Niskanen before playing God-like or possibly Bortuzzo). LOL

Zucker can really excel here especially since he'd replace the speed lost by Dupuis and the fact that he has a long history of playing with Bennett in Denver.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Etem was ranked higher than Bennett in 2010, but you're right about the others.

The DP reach is the only 1st rounder that I have a big problem with. Although I'd have liked Saad (ranked 22nd) over Morrow.

I'd love to get Etem. Kids a big hombre with skill.
Too bad the Ducks aren't good trading partners right now.

 

[ps241]

Hey guys for someone who hasn't lurked on your board excuse me for asking a question on a topic that has probably been beaten to death. Why is Simon despres not on your every day roster? I might have caught some of your older veterans on a bad day against the Jets (yea and we leaked worse that day ) when we came into town but I feel like Despres would have been an upgrade (feel free to flame me if i have got that wrong)? You guys have a great up and coming D group with Maatta, Despres, Harrington, and Pouliot is Simon just caught in a numbers game, is he not the coach's type, what is the story and do you know if is he being shopped?

I think he was a slick player what am I missing?

 

[Fire Shero*]

Yeah as the last post said, Dater said the Pens do have 2 scouts at the Panthers-Avs game.

6 other teams have scouts at the game. There was a league meeting in FL recently.

I wouldn't get excited...

 

[WayneSid9987]

Hey guys for someone who hasn't lurked on your board excuse me for asking a question on a topic that has probably been beaten to death. Why is Simon despres not on your every day roster? I might have caught some of your older veterans on a bad day against the Jets (yea and we leaked worse that day ) when we came into town but I feel like Despres would have been an upgrade (feel free to flame me if i have got that wrong)? You guys have a great up and coming D group with Maatta, Despres, Harrington, and Pouliot is Simon just caught in a numbers game, is he not the coach's type, what is the story and do you know if is he being shopped?

I think he was a slick player what am I missing?

He's definitely not one of the coaches favorites. Theres a rumor that he came in to camp not in shape and then they were saying that he was just sick. He was specifically sent down to WBS to work on his defensive game. Alot of PK time etc. before he was called up back up.

He's been a little inconsistent since his NHL debut but no more than Maata has been but he's never given the time to work through it. He had a great game this year and was healthy scratched the next night because the coaches have him lower on the depth chart than he should be.

The coaches probably have Engelland for sure and maybe Bortuzzo ahead of him on thier depth chart.

He just needs a coach to give him a chance to prove he can be an everyday NHL'er and he'll be on his way.

 

[wgknestrick]

Hey guys for someone who hasn't lurked on your board excuse me for asking a question on a topic that has probably been beaten to death. Why is Simon despres not on your every day roster? I might have caught some of your older veterans on a bad day against the Jets (yea and we leaked worse that day ) when we came into town but I feel like Despres would have been an upgrade (feel free to flame me if i have got that wrong)? You guys have a great up and coming D group with Maatta, Despres, Harrington, and Pouliot is Simon just caught in a numbers game, is he not the coach's type, what is the story and do you know if is he being shopped?

I think he was a slick player what am I missing?

If you think there are logical reasons for our lineup decisions, just stop. This org cannot (for the life of them) ever dress their best possible lineup. Despres is better than Orpik and probably Scuderi IMO, but they are "battle hardened veterans" in some peoples mind, especially the ones who decision matters.

Craig Adams has never been a healthy scratch despite being the 3rd worst NHL regular over the last 5 years in goals for %.....Tanner Glass has been the 5th worst.....Pyatt waiver pickup, TK being benched last year, Mark Eaton, Doug Murray, BB scratched, etc The list of questionable lineup decisions goes on an on.

There is too much favoritism and personal politics going on within this team to read too much into "why" Despres isn't on the team. He has been here long enough to figure these things out for himself and is probably had enough of it. No matter what he does, he can't win a spot in his mind (right or wrong).

We don't know if there is something obvious (and private) that is holding him back that would be the "smoking gun" if it got out, but chew on this:

You don't luck your way into averaging a +1 / game on our AHL team (with very little forward talent) or have the 2nd highest goals for % behind Letang over the last 2 years on our NHL team:
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...00&teamid=24&type=goals&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

or have the lowest goals against average / 20min
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...100&teamid=24&type=goals&sort=A20&sortdir=ASC

When we lose Despres, it is going to hurt because a team is going to rob us in the trade. There are no indicators that his "minor mistakes" are any worse than our current players. If anything, he is probably better than a couple of our regulars.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Hey guys for someone who hasn't lurked on your board excuse me for asking a question on a topic that has probably been beaten to death. Why is Simon despres not on your every day roster? I might have caught some of your older veterans on a bad day against the Jets (yea and we leaked worse that day ) when we came into town but I feel like Despres would have been an upgrade (feel free to flame me if i have got that wrong)? You guys have a great up and coming D group with Maatta, Despres, Harrington, and Pouliot is Simon just caught in a numbers game, is he not the coach's type, what is the story and do you know if is he being shopped?

I think he was a slick player what am I missing?

 

[Zen Arcade]

Yeah as the last post said, Dater said the Pens do have 2 scouts at the Panthers-Avs game.

Here comes Despres and a 3rd for Fleischmann.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Hey guys for someone who hasn't lurked on your board excuse me for asking a question on a topic that has probably been beaten to death. Why is Simon despres not on your every day roster? I might have caught some of your older veterans on a bad day against the Jets (yea and we leaked worse that day ) when we came into town but I feel like Despres would have been an upgrade (feel free to flame me if i have got that wrong)? You guys have a great up and coming D group with Maatta, Despres, Harrington, and Pouliot is Simon just caught in a numbers game, is he not the coach's type, what is the story and do you know if is he being shopped?

I think he was a slick player what am I missing?

Despres is better than half of the dmen on our current roster. I think he's just caught in a numbers game right now, but Bylsma and logic do not go together.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Yea, what it really boils down to is vets over youth, no matter how bad a vet has played, they always have a spot on the roster.

Maata is the first case in a long time where they gave a kid a chance and stood behind him.

 

[Captain Hook]

Hey guys for someone who hasn't lurked on your board excuse me for asking a question on a topic that has probably been beaten to death. Why is Simon despres not on your every day roster? I might have caught some of your older veterans on a bad day against the Jets (yea and we leaked worse that day ) when we came into town but I feel like Despres would have been an upgrade (feel free to flame me if i have got that wrong)? You guys have a great up and coming D group with Maatta, Despres, Harrington, and Pouliot is Simon just caught in a numbers game, is he not the coach's type, what is the story and do you know if is he being shopped?

I think he was a slick player what am I missing?

I think Despres just had bad luck. The Pens were never going to move one of their top 4 D of Orpik, Martin, Letang or Scuderi to make room for him. Despres had a shot at two jobs. One was Maatta's but Maatta forced the Penguins hand by playing so well they had to keep him. The other was Niskanen's job since Niskanen was the logical veteran to be moved to free cap space and open up a spot for Despres but Vokoun's injury provided the cap room to keep him and he's also basically forced the Pens hand to keep him because he's played incredible this year. Despres' time will come. It just isn't right now.

 

[jmelm]

Etem was ranked higher than Bennett in 2010, but you're right about the others.

The DP reach is the only 1st rounder that I have a big problem with. Although I'd have liked Saad (ranked 22nd) over Morrow.

Etem may have been ranked higher by some teams or for some of the independent (Redline, etc.) or amalgamated (Hockey News, TSN) polls, but Bob McKenzie said he knew of some teams who had Bennett ranked in their top 10.

Etem was "safer", Bennett had higher upside, but the concern with Bennett (like many other players who go down his path) was that he was playing against lower level competition. The concern with Bennett was also that he was a beanpole, like most kids that age, whereas Etem was already a T.R. Goodman-trained workout fanatic.

But yes, while he wouldn't be my first choice, Etem would be dynamite on our team. He is Pascal Dupuis+. That may not be Evander Kane, Jordan Eberle or Bobby Ryan, but that's still a damn good player and would fit our system to a T. I would trade Despres for him straight up if he was the best player available to us for 47.

 

[cheesedanish87]

If the pens were actually scouting the Av's all those games before the Olympics and not team USA players i think we might be able to figure out who the pens are scouting.

IIRR the last game the pens scouted of the Av's was against Winnipeg on Dec 29th, unless i missed something last night was the first game the pens scouted the av's since Dec 29th.

PA Parenteau was injured on Dec 29th(the last game the pens scouted the Av's) Last night was Parenteau's second game back from injury.

PA is also a right winger who can play with Sid.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

If we want ROR well he had a hell of a game last night. There has to be something going on with the Avs, we've been scouting them all year

 

[Ogrezilla]

If we want ROR well he had a hell of a game last night. There has to be something going on with the Avs, we've been scouting them all year

chiki chi chi superstar is coming home. Hide your daughters, hide your wives.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If the pens were actually scouting the Av's all those games before the Olympics and not team USA players i think we might be able to figure out who the pens are scouting.

IIRR the last game the pens scouted of the Av's was against Winnipeg on Dec 29th, unless i missed something last night was the first game the pens scouted the av's since Dec 29th.

PA Parenteau was injured on Dec 29th(the last game the pens scouted the Av's) Last night was Parenteau's second game back from injury.

PA is also a right winger who can play with Sid.

I'd take PAP for the right price.

 

[Muscles4Malkin]

How about getting our both needs by acquiring Eberle and Smyth for Letang and Pyatt? Just retain some of Smyth's salary.


Kunitz - Crosby - Eberle
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal
Smyth - Sutter - Bennett (looks very balanced to me)
Glass - Vitale - Adams

Orpik - Martin
Määttä - Niskanen
Scuderi - Bortuzzo
Engelland

(Despres could replace Orpik, or be traded for another veteran better than Orpik or just move Scuderi with Martin and play Despres with Bort.)

 

[Ogrezilla]

Smyth sucks, doesn't he? Completely immobile at this stage.

 

[IcedCapp]

Smyth sucks, doesn't he? Completely immobile at this stage.

yes.

 

[Ogrezilla]

yes.

I'm picturing significantly worse than Morrow even after his kneecap fell off. Is that about right?

 

[IcedCapp]

I'm picturing significantly worse than Morrow even after his kneecap fell off. Is that about right?

Yep. I watch a fair number of Oilers games, and I guess if hockey were a "half court" game he could still be a fairly effective net front guy, but it's not, which basically turns him into a skilled version of Craig Adams.