Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXV

[Ice-Tray]

Time to acquire a good D was this past off-season with expansion looming, but instead Dorion wasted a protection spot on Zaitsev and signed MDZ.

Complete missed opportunity, particularly when we had a young expansion exempt D in Brannstrom that our coach doesn't like and won't play that we could have put on the table for a better defenseman that had to be protected.

Just staggering incompetence.

Everything is “staggering” to you.

It’s a wonder you’re able to get out of bed, let alone follow a team that has you constantly in a state of bitter stupefaction.

I hear the clamouring, but never the realistic execution. Never a consideration of the real life context of the team. Never a consideration towards the desires of FA players.

I mean we have fans bitching about wins and loses, and moaning about playoff chances, when those were never the development goals for this season. The team laid out the goals for this years young team, only to have them promptly ignored in favour of aimless lambasting.

I mean why constantly set your expectations to a level where it’s a given to be disappointed?

 

[Ice-Tray]

I really hope Philly does awful this year moves Giroux to us (idgaf if we can get him for free in ufa). The team can use a vet forward like him and make some noise for a wild card spot instead of wasting away

Giroux and Toffoli would be pretty cool ads up front.

Pipe Dream I know, but really like those to players as adds for the next phase of team development.

I also agree that we need the right top 4 RD addition, though maybe Holden is the right guy to play with Sanderson.

Any HHOF bound vets looking for a last year or two out there?

 

[GCK]

Price is supposed to be coming back.. Montreal will need cap relief when he does.

I think they are still below with Byron and Weber on LTIR

 

[Big Muddy]

It’s a wonder you’re able to get out of bed, let alone follow a team that has you constantly in a state of bitter stupefaction.

I hear the clamouring, but never the realistic execution. Never a consideration of the real life context of the team. Never a consideration towards the desires of FA players.

Yikes.

Aren't we supposed to be discussing hockey versus throwing insults?

 

[Big Muddy]

What are we willing to give up for a legit top 4 D to come in and shelter and play with Sanderson.
Agree or not lets start with the premise that none of our prospects in Belleville are able to play top 4 minutes for at least another year if that.
A big assumption is that we can acquire a top 4 D and still retain Zub.
I think we have to look at an RD or a lefty that can effectively play both sides.
I was looking at Petry. he's owed 7.5 for 2 more years, and 5 for 1. He's turning 34 in Dec
Looking at any D we's want that are playing meaningful roles for teams that are looking like they will be playoff teams.. isn't likely to be successful

If he'd come here .. What would we be the most you'd willing to give up for him.

Would depend on the timeframe I guess .......

In the offseason, the free agent acquisition route is (and was) available.

Maybe your question is "what are we willing to give up right now"?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Everything is “staggering” to you.

It’s a wonder you’re able to get out of bed, let alone follow a team that has you constantly in a state of bitter stupefaction.

I hear the clamouring, but never the realistic execution. Never a consideration of the real life context of the team. Never a consideration towards the desires of FA players.

I mean we have fans bitching about wins and loses, and moaning about playoff chances, when those were never the development goals for this season. The team laid out the goals for this years young team, only to have them promptly ignored in favour of aimless lambasting.

I mean why constantly set your expectations to a level where it’s a given to be disappointed?

Lol, we finished bottom 5 four of the last five years(actually you can argue its 5 of the last 6 since we got 2 top 5 picks in one draft means we are supposed to be sped up in our progress) and you making a post like this.

When do we start rising, your highness. How many more developmental years.

Last year we finished off the season super strong and what does Dorion due to reward it? MICHAELLL DELLLL ZOOOTTTTOOOOOO. Who's been scratched more than he has played, lmao. For 2 freaking million a year.

He's right, pure incompetence.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Lol, we finished bottom 5 four of the last five years(actually you can argue its 5 of the last 6 since we got 2 top 5 picks in one draft means we are supposed to be sped up in our progress) and you making a post like this.

When do we start rising, your highness. How many more developmental years.

Last year we finished off the season super strong and what does Dorion due to reward it? MICHAELLL DELLLL ZOOOTTTTOOOOOO. Who's been scratched more than he has played, lmao. For 2 freaking million a year.

He's right, pure incompetence.

It's interesting to compare to other recent rebuilds. If you dig in and look at the number of seasons those teams had with less than 75 points, in a row, before starting to compete:

Chicago: 3 seasons (59, 65, 71, 88)
Pittsburgh: 4 seasons (69, 65, 58, 58, 105)
Toronto: 2 seasons (68, 69, 95)
Washington: 3 seasons (59, 70, 70, 94)

We've already had 4 straight seasons of 75 or less points (pro-rating last year) - 67, 64, 62, 75*. We should be on the upswing.

Another season or two, and this isn't a rebuild. It's a Sabres/Oilers/Coyotes level run of losing.

If we don't end with 80+ points this year, it's a failed season. No excuses.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Would depend on the timeframe I guess .......

In the offseason, the free agent acquisition route is (and was) available.

Maybe your question is "what are we willing to give up right now"?

yes now.

 

[GCK]

It's interesting to compare to other recent rebuilds. If you dig in and look at the number of seasons those teams had with less than 75 points, in a row, before starting to compete:

Chicago: 3 seasons
Pittsburgh: 4 seasons
Toronto: 2 seasons
Washington: 3 seasons

We've already had 4 straight seasons of sub-75 points (pro-rating last year). We should be on the upswing.

Another season or two, and this isn't a rebuild. It's a Sabres/Oilers/Coyotes level run of losing.

If we don't end with 80+ points this year, it's a failed season. No excuses.

4 seasons not 5 seasons.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Brannstrom, Zaitsev
for
A. Henrique, S. Benoit, G. Pateryn, 3rd

Who says no?

 

[BoardsofCanada]

It's interesting to compare to other recent rebuilds. If you dig in and look at the number of seasons those teams had with less than 75 points, in a row, before starting to compete:

Chicago: 3 seasons (59, 65, 71, 88)
Pittsburgh: 4 seasons (69, 65, 58, 58, 105)
Toronto: 2 seasons (68, 69, 95)
Washington: 3 seasons (59, 70, 70, 94)

We've already had 4 straight seasons of 75 or less points (pro-rating last year) - 67, 64, 62, 75*. We should be on the upswing.

Another season or two, and this isn't a rebuild. It's a Sabres/Oilers/Coyotes level run of losing.

If we don't end with 80+ points this year, it's a failed season. No excuses.

Those franchises all had budgets twice Ottawa's. Their GMs could surround the star draft picks with quality/expensive role players. Dorion can not do that. He goes bargain bin shopping every summer because that is all he can do. It is not cheapness or incompetence. There is NO money. Man alive, I thought Moneyball educated everyone on this. There's rich teams and poor team and then 50 feet of crap and then finally you get to Ottawa.

It's not fair and if you don't like it, go cheer for a big market rich team. I am also not saying it's hopeless but Ottawa has to catch lightning in a bottle like they did back in 2003; the best team in the league with Alfie, Hossa, Havlat, Chara, Redden, Phillips etc. all on affordable deals.

That's the only way Ottawa can do it. We have to hope enough of our players turn into stars and contend before the core becomes too expensive to keep together.

 

[GCK]

Brannstrom, Zaitsev
for
A. Henrique, S. Benoit, G. Pateryn, 3rd

Who says no?

The team who winds up with Zaitsev

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

The team who winds up with Zaitsev

Lol, fair

 

[DaveMatthew]

Those franchises all had budgets twice Ottawa's. Their GMs could surround the star draft picks with quality/expensive role players. Dorion can not do that. He goes bargain bin shopping every summer because that is all he can do. It is not cheapness or incompetence. There is NO money.

That's simply not true.

Matt Murray has an AAV of $6.25M. Colin White has an AAV of $4.75M. Nikita Zaitsev has an AAV of $4.5M.

Is there a budget? Yes. And that makes it challenging.

But we have allocated money. We just allocated it to the wrong players.

 

[Big Muddy]

yes now.

I was thinking that was probably the case. But, its better to ask of course.

I lean towards developing a long-term vision, strategy & plan, and then sticking with that pretty much. Of course, that's just me, and I wouldn't expect others to have the same idea, or even care for that matter.

So, with the above (long term strategy/plan) in mind, I'd just stay patient and wait this year out. If they finish in the bottom 10 of the standings (or thereabouts), its not the end of the earth or big deal really. Get another couple (or x number, whatever) of good drafts picks and keep building a good, young core.

Plus, with what we perceive to be EM's meager bank account, its the only real plan that makes sense imho. If we have all of the pieces of the young core in place, then maybe add some depth or possibly fill a need at that point.

Right now, I'd think we need another good, young center and a top-4 defender. And because, we don't, I'm tempering my expectations and not expecting big results this year.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

That's simply not true.

Matt Murray has an AAV of $6.25M. Colin White has an AAV of $4.75M. Nikita Zaitsev has an AAV of $4.5M.

Is there a budget? Yes. And that makes it challenging.

But we have allocated money. We just allocated it to the wrong players.

I can give understand context of White and Zaitsev.

Absolutely NO reason Murray should have gotten over 4 mil on that contract let alone over 6 million. Horrific.

 

[Sweatred]

Those franchises all had budgets twice Ottawa's. Their GMs could surround the star draft picks with quality/expensive role players. Dorion can not do that. He goes bargain bin shopping every summer because that is all he can do. It is not cheapness or incompetence. There is NO money. Man alive, I thought Moneyball educated everyone on this. There's rich teams and poor team and then 50 feet of crap and then finally you get to Ottawa.

It's not fair and if you don't like it, go cheer for a big market rich team. I am also not saying it's hopeless but Ottawa has to catch lightning in a bottle like they did back in 2003; the best team in the league with Alfie, Hossa, Havlat, Chara, Redden, Phillips etc. all on affordable deals.

That's the only way Ottawa can do it. We have to hope enough of our players turn into stars and contend before the core becomes too expensive to keep together.

I can’t believe people still think shared TV money somehow gives Ottawa the same spending power as teams like MTL or NYR …

 

[GCK]

I was thinking that was probably the case. But. its better to ask of course.

I was lean towards developing a long-term vision, strategy & plan, and then sticking with that pretty much. Of course, that's just me, and I wouldn't expect others to have the same idea, or even care for that matter.

So, with the above (long term strategy/plan) in mind, I'd just stay patient and wait this year out. If they finish in the bottom 10 of the standings (or thereabouts), its not the end of the earth or big deal really. Get another couple (or x number, whatever) of good drafts picks and keep building a good, young core. Plus, with what we perceive to be EM's meager bank account, its the only real plan that makes sense imho. If we have all of the pieces of the young core in place, then maybe add some depth or possibly fill a need at that point.

Right now, I'd think we need another good, young center and a top-4 defender.

I agree with long term thinking, but we are hurting the development of our players by having inadequate D. Upgrade Zaitsev for a true second pairing D and the entire D falls into place, not great but adequate and NHL calibre

 

[DaveMatthew]

I can’t believe people still think shared TV money somehow gives Ottawa the same spending power as teams like MTL or NYR …

Nobody is saying that.

But it's a fact that we're spending $15.5M this year, and will be for the next two years, on Murray, White and Zaitsev, is it not?

That's a lot of money that could have been much better spent.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I was thinking that was probably the case. But. its better to ask of course.

I was lean towards developing a long-term vision, strategy & plan, and then sticking with that pretty much. Of course, that's just me, and I wouldn't expect others to have the same idea, or even care for that matter.

So, with the above (long term strategy/plan) in mind, I'd just stay patient and wait this year out. If they finish in the bottom 10 of the standings (or thereabouts), its not the end of the earth or big deal really. Get another couple (or x number, whatever) of good drafts picks and keep building a good, young core. Plus, with what we perceive to be EM's meager bank account, its the only real plan that makes sense imho. If we have all of the pieces of the young core in place, then maybe add some depth or possibly fill a need at that point.

Right now, I'd think we need another good, young center and a top-4 defender.

Yah I would prioritize a top 4.. I mentioned Petry but it doesn't have to be him.. I just thought he would look good on our 2nd pair... He's more than that in Montreal. UFAs at the TDL have a different market.. Waiting is an option but i would like to see that position strengthened to bring Sanderson in and help us move pucks out with control.. which benefits everyone.

 

[GCK]

I can’t believe people still think shared TV money somehow gives Ottawa the same spending power as teams like MTL or NYR …

It doesn’t but it makes it easier to spend to the cap. Average 13K and revenues are there to support it when we can break even at 6K fans.

 

[Big Muddy]

I agree with long term thinking, but we are hurting the development of our players by having inadequate D. Upgrade Zaitsev for a true second pairing D and the entire D falls into place, not great but adequate and NHL calibre

I would agree that what you are talking about is ideal. I was hoping that when Melnyk told us they were looking for a center and another defender, that he meant it (and it was something decent). Yet, at the same time, I was quite skeptical given the COVID economics of the last 2 years.

I just try to align my hopes with reality I guess. Or, some would call it being pessimistic. Others might call it cautious optimism I suppose. Perception is reality as they say.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

That's simply not true.

Matt Murray has an AAV of $6.25M. Colin White has an AAV of $4.75M. Nikita Zaitsev has an AAV of $4.5M.

Is there a budget? Yes. And that makes it challenging.

But we have allocated money. We just allocated it to the wrong players.

So you are saying Ottawa is the only organization with contracts they wish they could take back? I can't prove it, but I am pretty sure those teams you listed all had a few contracts they would've liked to get rid of. The difference is their budgets were much bigger and they could get away with mistakes.

I did not like the White contract when it was signed. I thought it was way too much money for what White had shown at that point. I also thought Murray was gift wrapped an extremely generous contract. But every team has these situations. You can't expect Dorion to be perfect. There's no GM in the league that hasn't made a mistake.

 

[Cosmix]

Would depend on the timeframe I guess .......

In the offseason, the free agent acquisition route is (and was) available.

Maybe your question is "what are we willing to give up right now"?

I think going UFA can be expensive to acquire very good talent but the pro side is that you retain your player assets.

 

[DaveMatthew]

So you are saying Ottawa is the only organization with contracts they wish they could take back. I can't prove it, but I am pretty sure those teams you listed all had a few contracts they would've liked to get rid of. The difference is their budgets were much higher and could get away with mistakes.

I did not like the White contract when it was signed. I thought it was way too much money for what White had shown at that point. I also thought Murray was gift wrapped an extremely generous contract. But every team has these situations. You can't expect Dorion to be perfect. There's no GM in the league that hasn't made a mistake.

I'm saying that Dorion has made too many mistakes, and even with the budget constraints that he's operating under, we should be better than we are today. The defense we're icing right now is beyond awful.

He's made some good moves, for sure, but I don't think he's the right person to take this "rebuild" to the next level.