Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXV

[Sens of Anarchy]

What are we willing to give up for a legit top 4 D to come in and shelter and play with Sanderson.
Agree or not lets start with the premise that none of our prospects in Belleville are able to play top 4 minutes for at least another year if that.
A big assumption is that we can acquire a top 4 D and still retain Zub.
I think we have to look at an RD or a lefty that can effectively play both sides.
I was looking at Petry. he's owed 7.5 for 2 more years, and 5 for 1. He's turning 34 in Dec
Looking at any D we's want that are playing meaningful roles for teams that are looking like they will be playoff teams.. isn't likely to be successful

If he'd come here .. What would we be the most you'd willing to give up for him.

 

[GCK]

What are we willing to give up for a legit top 4 D to come in and shelter and play with Sanderson.
Agree or not lets start with the premise that none of our prospects in Belleville are able to play top 4 minutes for at least another year if that.
A big assumption is that we can acquire a top 4 D and still retain Zub.
I think we have to look at an RD or a lefty that can effectively play both sides.
I was looking at Petry. he's owed 7.5 for 2 more years, and 5 for 1. He's turning 34 in Dec
Looking at any D we's want that are playing meaningful roles for teams that are looking like they will be playoff teams.. isn't likely to be successful

If he'd come here .. What would we be the most you'd willing to give up for him.

For the right piece including term in salary any D prospect not named Sanderson and one of our 3rds.

 

[Loach]

Greig and something like a 3rd

 

[Hale The Villain]

Time to acquire a good D was this past off-season with expansion looming, but instead Dorion wasted a protection spot on Zaitsev and signed MDZ.

Complete missed opportunity, particularly when we had a young expansion exempt D in Brannstrom that our coach doesn't like and won't play that we could have put on the table for a better defenseman that had to be protected.

Just staggering incompetence.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

he did add a defensemen. MDZ!

It makes me wonder if they were expecting an internal solution to the problem and after camp they were let down.

Or did they expect the guys they did bring in to play bigger roles? If so that's concerning, because its the exact same problem they had last season.

 

[HSF]

Time to acquire a good D was this past off-season with expansion looming, but instead Dorion wasted a protection spot on Zaitsev and signed MDZ.

Complete missed opportunity, particularly when we had a young expansion exempt D in Brannstrom that our coach doesn't like and won't play that we could have put on the table for a better defenseman that had to be protected.

Just staggering incompetence.

should be fired

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Two second round picks. More than enough to bring in competent 2nd pairing defender.

2 2nd round picks have netted Toews and Brendan Dillon.

A 3rd round pick netted Schmidt. TWICE.

Leddy for 2nd round pick + panik.

Greig and something like a 3rd

We tryna get a bonafide top pairing defender? Nah.

 

[HSF]

It makes me wonder if they were expecting an internal solution to the problem and after camp they were let down.

Or did they expect the guys they did bring in to play bigger roles? If so that's concerning, because its the exact same problem they had last season.

they keep signing and bringing in guys who are bottom pairing on good teams ie Holden, MDZ, Gud, Coburn and play them in top 4 roles. Im not sure if this management believes they are smarter than everyone or its a budget issue

 

[Hale The Villain]

should be fired

And yet he just got extended

 

[Loach]

they keep signing and bringing in guys who are bottom pairing on good teams ie Holden, MDZ, Gud, Coburn and play them in top 4 roles. Im not sure if this management believes they are smarter than everyone or its a budget issue

Both?

 

[bashbros32]

wasted a protection spot on Zaitsev

I know it's a bit nitpicky... but with Z's M-NTC wasn't it required that we protected him? I know we could have traded him to one of the teams not on his list but it is unlikely anyone has any interest in him, and we aren't in the business of acquiring bad contracts or retaining salary.

 

[bert]

I know it's a bit nitpicky... but with Z's M-NTC wasn't it required that we protected him? I know we could have traded him to one of the teams not on his list but it is unlikely anyone has any interest in him, and we aren't in the business of acquiring bad contracts or retaining salary.

I mean what contracts are worse than his? Not many. Id add to get rid of him right now.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

they keep signing and bringing in guys who are bottom pairing on good teams ie Holden, MDZ, Gud, Coburn and play them in top 4 roles. Im not sure if this management believes they are smarter than everyone or its a budget issue

The issue is our management is literally one season behind where we should be. Their IQ stalled.

LAST YEAR was when we should have experimented with bringing in MDZ and Holden type players and THIS YEAR should have been bonafide top 4. Instead, last year we brought in nobodies, this year we are bringing in solid bottom pair and next year we might bring fringe or just ok top 4.

I will allow the covid excuse to work and will allow next off-season to be final opportunity for them to get their heads out of their asses. If we don't bring in a top 4 to play with Sanderson, I'm done until they do. But by then, might be too late as either Chabot or Zub ran to the ground(or both) or Sanderson completely overwhelmed trying to play for himself and his incompetent/underwhelming partner.

What's funny is how clueless some fans are.

"BE PATIENT WE ARE YOUNG". Is exactly what Buffalo and Edmonton and every failed rebuild that failed to bring in appropriate veteran support said. No rebuild is done until legit assets are brought in to support the young core(who might not all make it anyway).

like Boston did with: Savard, Chara, Horton, Recchi.
Like Pitts did with: Gonchar, Recchi, Robarts, Sykora, Hossa.
Like Chicago did with: Lang, Hossa, Sopel, Campbell
Like LA did with: Scuderi, Smythe, Williams, Mitchell, Gaborik

Almost all of the above I mentioned were put in a season or two right after they finished in the basement. NOT when the core started to contend for playoffs on their own.

WAITING...

 

[Hale The Villain]

I know it's a bit nitpicky... but with Z's M-NTC wasn't it required that we protected him? I know we could have traded him to one of the teams not on his list but it is unlikely anyone has any interest in him, and we aren't in the business of acquiring bad contracts or retaining salary.

You have to protect players with no move clauses, but players with no trade clauses don't have to be protected.

 

[bashbros32]

You have to protect players with no move clauses, but players with no trade clauses don't have to be protected.

fair enough, however what does it truly have to do with Dorion's appraisal?

I think hes done a pretty terrible job since taking over, but even if we didn't protect Zaitsev... who should he have? and it wouldn't have affected anything anyways...

unless you are saying we should have attempted to pick up a d-man from a team that gave one up prior to the expansion...

Nick DeSimone
Ryan Ellis
Phillippe Myers
Nick Leddy
Ryan Graves
Caleb Jones
Duncan Keith

^ that is the list of d-men traded in july *prior* to the expansion draft.

I would have been happy with any of Ellis, Leddy, Graves and Jones.

Jones was trades with a 3rd for Keith and Soderlund... don't think we could have matched

Graves was traded for Maltsev (b- to c tier prospect) and a 2nd... we could have easily matched

Leddy was traded for Panik and a 2nd... we could have easily matched

Ellis was traded for Patrick and Myers... we could not have matched that.


So realistically we could have acquired Ryan Graves or Nick Leddy via trade. Both are upgrades on the LD we signed, and traded for...

 

[Big Muddy]

Not sure if that contract allowed in CBA, cannot be more than a certain % difference in any year between salary and AAV. Like you said we don’t generally give out bonuses.

I think the CBA rule was that the lowest year could not be any lower than 50% of the highest year iirc. Might have changed, but I don't recall seeing a change.

 

[Hale The Villain]

fair enough, however what does it truly have to do with Dorion's appraisal?

I think hes done a pretty terrible job since taking over, but even if we didn't protect Zaitsev... who should he have? and it wouldn't have affected anything anyways...

unless you are saying we should have attempted to pick up a d-man from a team that gave one up prior to the expansion...

Nick DeSimone
Ryan Ellis
Phillippe Myers
Nick Leddy
Ryan Graves
Caleb Jones
Duncan Keith

^ that is the list of d-men traded in july *prior* to the expansion draft.

I would have been happy with any of Ellis, Leddy, Graves and Jones.

Jones was trades with a 3rd for Keith and Soderlund... don't think we could have matched

Graves was traded for Maltsev (b- to c tier prospect) and a 2nd... we could have easily matched

Leddy was traded for Panik and a 2nd... we could have easily matched

Ellis was traded for Patrick and Myers... we could not have matched that.


So realistically we could have acquired Ryan Graves or Nick Leddy via trade. Both are upgrades on the LD we signed, and traded for...

Ellis would have been good, but I don't think we would have given up what it took to get him.

Graves would have been okay. Same with Giordano or Soucy. Real miss was Dunn.

We also didn't need to wait right until expansion. I was saying in the 2019/20 off-season that we needed to be looking for a youngish top 4 D and Dorion sat on his hands as a young top 4 D in Toews was traded for a couple late 2nds, which we could have easily beat.

 

[bicboi64]

I would have been happy with any of Ellis, Leddy, Graves and Jones.

Jones was trades with a 3rd for Keith and Soderlund... don't think we could have matched

Graves was traded for Maltsev (b- to c tier prospect) and a 2nd... we could have easily matched

Leddy was traded for Panik and a 2nd... we could have easily matched

Ellis was traded for Patrick and Myers... we could not have matched that.


So realistically we could have acquired Ryan Graves or Nick Leddy via trade. Both are upgrades on the LD we signed, and traded for...

Pretty much this. There were some absurd deals handed out to some players this past off season, but there were bargains made for players that are looking like bargains. Dorion needs to pull some of those deals out of his pocket or we're going to waste a valuable year of development where players know what its like to try and compete. Instead we're set up to fail because guys like MDZ are management's hopes of providing stability in the backend.

 

[bicboi64]

The quacks are rebuilding, yotes are tanking, there are deals that might be made. Can we give up some assets and acquire someone like Manson, Stralman, etc....

I'd rather take a gamble on them and worry about having to pay them instead of relying on the likes of MDZ and Josh Brown.

 

[Big Muddy]

Ottawa is really going to piss away what could have been a decent season because they couldn’t find a top 6 Center and top 4 D

I agree, but even just one of those 2 pieces would be a good start (& would have been economical - cough Melnyk). Yes, we are cost conscious team, but instead of pissing away $2m (or whatever) on MDZ (if other junk was removed, there would be more to spend as well) , a better alternative would have been to spend a little more and get a player that can actually play on the roster and make a decent contribution. Oh well.

 

[Big Muddy]

For me, the goal of this season is to be within striking distance of the playoffs when Sanderson enters the lineup after the NCAA finishes while spending the least possible dollars and assets to get there.

Right now it’s looking like we will have to add to get tho that point.

Hopefully we’re not going after another top pick. I wouldn’t be unhappy but I feel like this should be the year we get out of the basement.

Not in the cards, this is not a playoff contention team.

Ya, even Melynk said in a preseason presser (or podcast) that the team was wanting to add another decent defender and a center.

We actually had two (2) slots in our top 4 D to fill though, but we didn't even get one decent defender. Instead, we got the bargain basement MDZ.

I would have been surprised if Melnyk actually spent any money of significance on players this year given the COVID economics of the last 2 years. I think some of what EM & Dorion says is just to give fans some hope and to sell tickets.

That's why I keep wondering and looking for signs as to what the organization's thinking & real strategy is when it comes to the timeline they think they'll actually have a competitive team.

 

[Qward]

If the team is still bad by end of December, make no moves. Tank the season, give younger guys minutes from Belleville so they can get a taste of the speed of the game at the top level.
Trade away Tierney, Ennis, Sanford, Gambrell, Sabourin, Shaw, Holden, J. Brown, MDZ, Mete, Forsberg for what ever you can get.

Draft BPA and sign Norris to an 8 year deal, Formenton to a bridge.


2022
Tkachuk/Norris/Batherson
Stutzle/Pinto/Brown
Formenton/???/Sokolov
Paul/White/Watson

Chabot/Zub
Sanderson/JBD
Brannstrom/Thomson

Murray
Gustavsson

 

[bicboi64]

I really hope Philly does awful this year moves Giroux to us (idgaf if we can get him for free in ufa). The team can use a vet forward like him and make some noise for a wild card spot instead of wasting away

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Price is supposed to be coming back.. Montreal will need cap relief when he does.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

We should sign Eric Staal to the Spezza deal. Overpay if you need to and get him at 1 year $1.5M. He could easily be on our second PP and we inflate his stats and move him at the deadline.

Eric Staal is done, believe me as a Sabres fan. Wasn't much better with Montreal.