Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXX

[cudi]

Kessel and Domi.... You gotta ve kidding me. Is anyone actually paying attention to the types of players and people this organization is targeting.... Why on earth is the sens first being thrown around. Offer sheeting Petterson.... The Eugene Melnyk owned Ottawa Senators.... Not to mention they are going to have a ton of players in the same situation.

Half the players this team has drafted in this rebuild aren't even playing pro yet. This isn't a playoff team in a stacked east and Atlantic, we're mid rebuild. Take a deep breath everyone.

FOMO has really kicked in around here.

 

[Sweatred]

That would have been an absurd expectation, like literally insane. You are basically saying that revenues needed to increase higher than they've ever been, during scorched earth rebuild seasons coming off major fan/owner/media disputes, before the spending promise is followed through on, in order for FYOUS spending to happen.

If it were all predicated on having revenues support it before it happened, it was never ever going to be possible, full stop. You know it, I know it, Melnyk knows it. No team is increasing or even sustaining revenue as they enter and go through a slow, full on rebuild like that.

If that was the case all along, beyond not understanding why that wouldn't have been communicated, I don't really get what he was promising then? If fans were solely responsible for funding it, then he's not doing anything himself and doesn't really need to be making any spending "promises".

Its not hard to understand - the ownership puts an inexpensive young entertaining product on the ice and fan attendance should increase (it has too, it was the lowest in the league).

As it matures it costs more money to retain and the team should improve driving more attendance. It’s the same as what the Jays have done in their rebuild on a smaller scale.

The plan isn’t … Geener spending to the cap for A few years in an empty building waiting to see if the leagues worst attendance improves. That’s not realistic or going to happen.

 

[Sweatred]

Kessel and Domi.... You gotta ve kidding me. Is anyone actually paying attention to the types of players and people this organization is targeting.

Any proof of who they are (or aren’t) targeting to justify your Criticism? But to answer you question … no they don’t need to share who they are targeting beyond their internal group. They definitely don’t care about eval from anyone here if that is what you are suggesting.

 

[JD1]

Nah I think most ppl know he isn’t coming here cause melnyk won’t spend

we will end up with some tweener Center who the organization will pass as an ‘impact’ or ‘top’ Center

though if the team can’t afford eichel then strome or monohan also won’t be resigned if they do well cause they will be too expensive

He won't come here because Melnyk won't spend is such an HF Sens thing

It's not as though there are question marks about his immediate and long term health, about his attitude, about his willingness to play in small town Canada, or concerns with the asset package it would take to acquire him.

No, we'll just say Melnyk is cheap and call it a day.

It's not often a player of that talent and age is on the market. The other 30 GMs, specifically I'm talking about the 30 guys that don't work for cheap ass owners, must all be on summer holidays because this is such a sure fire situation to vault any team to a cup that it'd be done already.

 

[Micklebot]

Any proof of who they are (or aren’t) they targeting ?

There's lots of evidence of the type of player the team likes to target, it can be seen in the player's we've aquired, the player's we've drafted, the comments from Trent Mann and Dorion. You can see it in who we've walked away from too. There's certainly a pattern, doesn't mean ever player we draft, trade for or sign will fit the pattern to a tee, but the team certainly has a vision for what they are looking to build and with that in mind you can get a feel for likely or unlikely targets.

 

[Sweatred]

There's lots of evidence of the type of player the team likes to target, it can be seen in the player's we've aquired, the player's we've drafted, the comments from Trent Mann and Dorion. You can see it in who we've walked away from too. There's certainly a pattern, doesn't mean ever player we draft, trade for or sign will fit the pattern to a tee, but the team certainly has a vision for what they are looking to build and with that in mind you can get a feel for likely or unlikely targets.

Not really - players we acquire is evidence of who we target but we don’t get the info on we we missed out on. There could be 10 better options that don’t end up here over the player we finally get.

Id say our drafting has been excellent. Out pro scouting isn’t as bad as some paint it to be. We got great value out of Demelo, Tierney, Duclair , Reilly, Mete types.

The team struggles to attract UFA’s but that isn't because they are unaware of good the UFA’s.

 

[Micklebot]

He won't come here because Melnyk won't spend is such an HF Sens thing

It's not as though there are question marks about his immediate and long term health, about his attitude, about his willingness to play in small town Canada, or concerns with the asset package it would take to acquire him.

No, we'll just say Melnyk is cheap and call it a day.

It's not often a player of that talent and age is on the market. The other 30 GMs, specifically I'm talking about the 30 guys that don't work for cheap ass owners, must all be on summer holidays because this is such a sure fire situation to vault any team to a cup that it'd be done already.

Eh, I don't entirely disagree with you, there are lots of reasons to be hesitant about acquiring Eichel, and I doubt the cost of acquisition will ever be low enough to offset those risks for the sens, but many of the other 30 teams simply don't have the space to fit a 10 mil cap hit into their team, another chunk don't have the assets to make it happen. McDavid could go on the market tomorrow and not all 30 teams would be in the mix.

 

[JD1]

Eh, I don't entirely disagree with you, there are lots of reasons to be hesitant about acquiring Eichel, and I doubt the cost of acquisition will ever be low enough to offset those risks for the sens, but many of the other 30 teams simply don't have the space to fit a 10 mil cap hit into their team, another chunk don't have the assets to make it happen. McDavid could go on the market tomorrow and not all 30 teams would be in the mix.

In our situation though it's just pure cheap ass owner

 

[JD1]

Not really - players we acquire is evidence of who we target but we don’t get the info on we we missed out on. There could be 10 better options that don’t end up here over the player we finally get.

Id say our drafting has been excellent. Out pro scouting isn’t as bad as some paint it to be. We got great value out of Demelo, Tierney, Duclair , Reilly, Mete types.

The team struggles to attract UFA’s but that isn't because they are unaware of good the UFA’s.

BPA is a vague concept. There's no single definition of BPA. There's different brands of hockey and players better suited to that brand. That in itself changes the definition of BPA from one team to the next.

 

[Micklebot]

Not really - players we acquire is evidence of who we target but we don’t get the info on we we missed out on. There could be 10 better options that don’t end up here over the player we finally get.

Id say our drafting has been excellent. Out pro scouting isn’t as bad as some paint it to be. We got great value out of Demelo, Tierney, Duclair , Reilly, Mete types.

The team struggles to attract UFA’s but that isn't because they are unaware of good the UFA’s.

I'm struggling to understand what you're getting at. @bert is implying Kessel and Domi were not good fits for what this team is building towards, not that we don't target good UFA (those guys not being UFA, I'm not sure why you've brought UFA up at all, but I digress). He's criticizing posters for wanting to add those guys specifically because the fit this team like a square peg in a round hole, not the team for being unlikely to go after them.

Bert has generally been pretty positive about the style of team we appear to be looking to build, Domi and Kessel would be a departure from that style of team.

 

[Sweatred]

I'm struggling to understand what you're getting at. @bert is implying Kessel and Domi were not good fits for what this team is building towards, not that we don't target good UFA (those guys not being UFA, I'm not sure why you've brought UFA up at all, but I digress). He's criticizing posters for wanting to add those guys specifically because the fit this team like a square peg in a round hole, not the team for being unlikely to go after them.

Bert has generally been pretty positive about the style of team we appear to be looking to build, Domi and Kessel would be a departure from that style of team.

I was asking if there was proof ? I may have missed or not seen a quote or something where Dorion said he wanted Domi ?

 

[Micklebot]

In our situation though it's just pure cheap ass owner

There are certainly some that focus on our internal budget, and attribute that solely to the owner. Fans are often emotional and look to place blame, but look past the animus towards the owner and you get the root of the argument, our internal budget is likely one of the biggest reasons we specifically are not in on Eichel. I think it would be foolish to believe our internal budget doesn't play into the calculus for deciding on whether to trade for Eichel or not.

 

[Sweatred]

There are certainly some that focus on our internal budget, and attribute that solely to the owner. Fans are often emotional and look to place blame, but look past the animus towards the owner and you get the root of the argument, our internal budget is likely one of the biggest reasons we specifically are not in on Eichel. I think it would be foolish to believe our internal budget doesn't play into the calculus for deciding on whether to trade for Eichel or not.

Why do you think our internal budget is limited ? Melynk doesn’t really make or lose any more money than the average owner … he makes a lot less than many.

 

[Micklebot]

I was asking if there was proof ? I may have missed or not seen a quote or something where Dorion said he wanted Domi ?

Nobody said Dorion wanted Domi, some poster here suggested we should be, followed by a bunch of other posters such as Bert saying we shouldn't be, or wouldn't be based on the type of players we tend to target.

 

[Sweatred]

Nobody said Dorion wanted Domi, some poster here suggested we should be, followed by a bunch of other posters such as Bert saying we shouldn't be, or wouldn't be based on the type of players we tend to target.

Ahhh - It felt like old Berto was blaming management for wanting Domi … so really the focus should have been on the fan who suggested the acquisition.

 

[Micklebot]

Why do you think our internal budget is limited ? Melynk doesn’t really make or lose any more money than the average owner … he makes a lot less than many.

No thank-you, I'd rather not let you drag this thread off topic.

 

[Sweatred]

No thank-you, I'd rather not let you drag this thread off topic.

Ha ! That’s okay, be both know why. Let’s not allow 50 posts a day suggesting Melynk is too cheap to acquire Zibby/Eichel if we don’t want to take it the obvious step further to account for why.

 

[Micklebot]

Ahhh - It felt like old Berto was blaming management for wanting Domi …

Nope. The opposite if anything, glad we cleared up a simple miss-understanding

 

[Sweatred]

Kessel and Domi.... You gotta be kidding me. Is anyone actually paying attention to the types of players and people this organization is targeting....

Not to worry @Micklebot or @bert … there is no evidence this org is targeting Domi or Kessel.

 

[Micklebot]

BPA is a vague concept. There's no single definition of BPA. There's different brands of hockey and players better suited to that brand. That in itself changes the definition of BPA from one team to the next.

Last two drafts I've heard Dorion and Mann repeat the same type of thing when asked about BPA, something along the lines of "we are going to select the player we feel will be best suited to help us win", now that could be interpreted as letting need impact the selection, or it could be a way of saying the guy who looks like he is a better player in a vacuum might not be the one that has the biggest impact on winning games, or it could be a bit of both, or neither, only they know, but I like to think it's valuing guys like Tkachuk for more than just the goals they directly contribute to.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Last two drafts I've heard Dorion and Mann repeat the same type of thing when asked about BPA, something along the lines of "we are going to select the player we feel will be best suited to help us win", now that could be interpreted as letting need impact the selection, or it could be a way of saying the guy who looks like he is a better player in a vacuum might not be the one that has the biggest impact on winning games, or it could be a bit of both, or neither, only they know, but I like to think it's valuing guys like Tkachuk for more than just the goals they directly contribute to.

I think youre on the right track with this. Theyre being cute with their language, but theyre essentially saying:

1. Were not as concerned with points as impact. (Boucher)

2. Were are willing to select less offense for more defense (Sanderson v. Drysdale)

3. We are willing to sacrifice scoring for physicality (Kleven)

4. Were are interested in guys who want to win, not guys who want to score. We value team first guys, leadership, etc.. (Tkachuk).

 

[BondraTime]

That’s BPA, the player you think will help most, nothing controversial or strange there. It’s the same for every single team.

Doesn’t matter who’s most skilled, who’s the consensus pick, etc. The player you think will have the most impact on the team is their BPA. Impact doesn’t mean best stats or most offense.

 

[Big Papi]

Regarding Domi, is it just inferences that lead people to say he's a bad teammate or did something happen?

 

[bert]

I'm struggling to understand what you're getting at. @bert is implying Kessel and Domi were not good fits for what this team is building towards, not that we don't target good UFA (those guys not being UFA, I'm not sure why you've brought UFA up at all, but I digress). He's criticizing posters for wanting to add those guys specifically because the fit this team like a square peg in a round hole, not the team for being unlikely to go after them.

Bert has generally been pretty positive about the style of team we appear to be looking to build, Domi and Kessel would be a departure from that style of team.

Let me guess Sweatred had no idea what I posted then implied I said something that I didn't. Colour me shocked.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I don’t think Kessel has much left in the tank.

About 63 hotdogs.