Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XVI

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The idea that BondraTime just presented that you're referring to is exactly how I see we need to operate with our restraints and I have no problem with that. I think the alternative idea presented by others earlier is a little extreme and sounds good in theory but difficult to pull off (and like I said earlier, I don't think Dorion is the guy that can actually do it). I'm in agreement with your main point.

And ftr I wasn't agreeing with Fenix Rises suggestion of moving Tkachuk now, I just think they need to get off the pot on some decent pieces a little sooner than would be ideal, so that you don't end up selling them for pennies on the dollar like Duchene and Stone.

Say Tkachuk signs for 8 years this summer, I'm meaning like say 4, 5 or 6 years from now we start exploring moving him knowing he won't be re-upping a UFA contract in Ottawa.

 

[GCK]

Best thing to do would be to get your core, keep them together, add to it through draft and trades, and never, ever commit term and dollars to replaceable players.

Greening and Zack Smith? 15 million dollar deals each for something that a UFA like Tyler Ennis could do for 900k. That's 26 extra million to play with over a 4 year period.

Nate Thompson? 3.5 million dollar deal that could be done for 750k from any prospect in the system or UFA. 2 million extra bucks over a 2 year period.

Alex Burrows? 5 million dollar deal that could be done for 750k by any prospect in the system or UFA. 3.5 million extra bucks over a 2 year period.

Derek Stepan? 2 million dollars that could be replaced by any 750k guy in our system. 1.25 extra million over the year.

Connor Brown and Chris Tierny should be phased out next season, would save the team 11 million the next 2 seasons, and could be replaced pretty adequately through a simple trade, short term signing or ELC. Neither guy is more than a replaceable role player, they should be treated as such. Nick Paul, should he be a guy we sign to a 3+ year deal worth 9 million, or would that money be best invested elsewhere? Zub is a guy that looks as though he should be a fixture on our right side, and with his little track record in the NHL, should be up for a 3/4 year extension < 3 million, a perfect deal for the Sens.

Rule of thumb should be spending less than 3% of the cap on guys who are not in your top 6 (with exceptions to guys like Pageau), and spending the bare minimum on guys who could be in.

Bloated UFA contracts, stay away unless able to get a very good player. Don't pay a premium for guys likely to decline ion the next year or two. End up with a Lucic, Ryan or Eriksson. A team in the financial hardship of the Sens can't deal with this.

Sign our core guys off their ELC's to 7/8 year deals. Ride them until they are 27/28, make a decision the summer before if they will resign. If a contract extension isn't signed in the summer prior to the seasons starting, start the bidding war, don't wait until the trade deadline.

I agree with most of this except where you call Connor Brown very replaceable and say Pageau would be an exception. Brown has produced at the same pace as Pageau, both are excellent penalty killers and both are at their best in a 3rd line role.

 

[h2]

And ftr I wasn't agreeing with Fenix Rises suggestion of moving Tkachuk now, I just think they need to get off the pot on some decent pieces a little sooner than would be ideal, so that you don't end up selling them for pennies on the dollar like Duchene and Stone.

Say Tkachuk signs for 8 years this summer, I'm meaning like say 4, 5 or 6 years from now we start exploring moving him knowing he won't be re-upping a UFA contract in Ottawa.

No worries. I didn't interpret your initial posts as agreeing to that. I think you're right with the timing being off in the past with Duchene and Stone and the need in the future to ascertain the likelihood of a player like Tkachuk reupping sooner than we did with Duchene and Stone. That's one area where I think we need to improve given our restraints for sure.

 

[BondraTime]

I agree with most of this except where you call Connor Brown very replaceable and say Pageau would be an exception. Brown has produced at the same pace as Pageau, both are excellent penalty killers and both are at their best in a 3rd line role.

I think Pageau is a much better guy, at both ends of the rink, and plays the more important position. He’s the lead PK, and apart of the PP. He’s a guy that a competing team traded for and immediately signed to a big contract. Brown was a guy a competing team wasn’t too upset about giving away as a sweetener to get rid of Zaitsev’s contract. I don’t think Brown will be getting any better, and if the team is ever competitive, he’ll be seeing reduced minutes, as he did in Toronto, and his effectiveness and scoring will drop.

Pageau has 41 goals in his past 107 games since the start of last year, you have to go back to the start of 2017 to get to 43 goals in the past 269 games for Brown.

 

[GCK]

I think Pageau is a much better guy, at both ends of the rink, and plays the more important position. He’s the lead PK, and apart of the PP. He’s a guy that a competing team traded for and immediately signed to a big contract. Brown was a guy a competing team wasn’t too upset about giving away as a sweetener to get rid of Zaitsev’s contract. I don’t think Brown will be getting any better, and if the team is ever competitive, he’ll be seeing reduced minutes, as he did in Toronto, and his effectiveness and scoring will drop.

Pageau has 41 goals in his past 107 games since the start of last year, you have to go back to the start of 2017 to get to 43 goals in the past 269 games for Brown.

I don’t think Pageau’s 18.0 shooting % since the start of last season is sustainable so I expect some regression to his career norm of 11%.

 

[playasRus]

Incomin Luke Schenn pick up

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The idea that BondraTime just presented that you're referring to is exactly how I see we need to operate with our restraints and I have no problem with that. I think the alternative idea presented by others earlier is a little extreme and sounds good in theory but difficult to pull off (and like I said earlier, I don't think Dorion is the guy that can actually do it). I'm in agreement with your main point.

No reason to think he can

 

[SpezDispenser]

I want the Brothers Tkachuk united.

 

[IlTerrifico]

The Sens' dilemma is that most Cup winners have at least 2 elite top scorers, and great supporting casts. It looks like Stutzle will be one elite one here, but the 2nd one doesn't seem to be on the roster or to be available in the draft related to the 2021 season.

Unless that type of player becomes available in the next 2-3 years by free agent (doubtful) or trade that doesn't clean out the best prospects, maybe the plan should be to duplicate the Kings model, and build a team of very good depth, and attempt to win by mostly grinding 3-2 wins. A second question is whether we are improving enough that a top 3-4 pick after the 2021-22 is unlikely.

That might mean considering M Tkachuk at the right price. The downside of this in the next 10 months or so is improving enough to move out of the top of the draft next year, when more elite forwards stand to be available. Maybe we resign all the bad vets to play the first 25 games next year, go 2-23, and then finish the rest of the year around .500 to get access to the primo youth.

 

[Answer]

The Sens' dilemma is that most Cup winners have at least 2 elite top scorers, and great supporting casts. It looks like Stutzle will be one elite one here, but the 2nd one doesn't seem to be on the roster or to be available in the draft related to the 2021 season.

Unless that type of player becomes available in the next 2-3 years by free agent (doubtful) or trade that doesn't clean out the best prospects, maybe the plan should be to duplicate the Kings model, and build a team of very good depth, and attempt to win by mostly grinding 3-2 wins. A second question is whether we are improving enough that a top 3-4 pick after the 2021-22 is unlikely.

That might mean considering M Tkachuk at the right price. The downside of this in the next 10 months or so is improving enough to move out of the top of the draft next year, when more elite forwards stand to be available. Maybe we resign all the bad vets to play the first 25 games next year, go 2-23, and then finish the rest of the year around .500 to get access to the primo youth.

We only need a true #1 center and we are set to contend if our main prospect live up to their potential (not necessarily stars), except Stutzle of course, who will be a star.

I don't see why this line up can't compete in next 2-3 years. I will slot in Mackinnon just for reference

Stutzle - Mackinnon - Dadonov (or Dadonov replacement)
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Formenton - White - Paul
Abramov - Pinto - Grieg (we have a lot of options there)

Chabot - Brenard Docker
Sanderson - Brannstrom
Lassi T/Kleven - Zub

 

[MrGuyPerson]

We only need a true #1 center and we are set to contend if our main prospect live up to their potential (not necessarily stars), except Stutzle of course, who will be a star.

I don't see why this line up can't compete in next 2-3 years. I will slot in Mackinnon just for reference

Stutzle - Mackinnon - Dadonov (or Dadonov replacement)
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Formenton - White - Paul
Abramov - Pinto - Grieg (we have a lot of options there)

Chabot - Brenard Docker
Sanderson - Brannstrom
Lassi T/Kleven - Zub

Cough cough Matt Beniers (wink wink)

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

We only need a true #1 center and we are set to contend if our main prospect live up to their potential (not necessarily stars), except Stutzle of course, who will be a star.

I don't see why this line up can't compete in next 2-3 years. I will slot in Mackinnon just for reference

Stutzle - Mackinnon - Dadonov (or Dadonov replacement)
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Formenton - White - Paul
Abramov - Pinto - Grieg (we have a lot of options there)

Chabot - Brenard Docker
Sanderson - Brannstrom
Lassi T/Kleven - Zub

So all we need is a Mackinnon, a player better than anyone currently on the team? That's a lofty order considering how rarely players of his ilk come up.

I think we'll have to settle for less.

 

[Answer]

Cough cough Matt Beniers (wink wink)

Well how good is actually? Is he going to be drafted #1 overall this draft? I have no background on any of the top 3-5 prospects in this up coming draft, as yet

 

[Answer]

So all we need is a Mackinnon, a player better than anyone currently on the team? That's a lofty order considering how rarely players of his ilk come up.

I think we'll have to settle for less.

No we just need a legit #1 Center. Doesn't have to be Mackinnon level but he still has to be a legit #1 center whos the best player on our team and can make his line mates better.

How lofty of an order it is, it just has to happen or this team will be more skilled in Golfing than playing Hockey

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

No we just need a legit #1 Center. Doesn't have to be Mackinnon level but he still has to be a legit #1 center whos the best player on our team and can make his line mates better.

How lofty of an order it is, it just has to happen or this team will be more skilled in Golfing than playing Hockey

For sure, I was partly teasing. We will definitely need another high end forward and ideally a center if Stutzle isn't it.

Just thought it was funny seeing Mackinnon's name slipped in there, considering he's arguably one of the best players in the league atm and certainly better than anyone on our roster.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

Well how good is actually? Is he going to be drafted #1 overall this draft? I have no background on any of the top 3-5 prospects in this up coming draft, as yet

Preference for fit is going to be a bigger factor in the top 10 for this draft class. Choosing between the top D such as Power, Hughes, and Clarke really comes down to what you're trying to build. They all do different things better and choosing between them will vary based on the type of player the team needs. Forwards will be similar, but Beniers is the only forward that presents as a complete package. I mean complete as in there are not really any areas of his game that need to be developed or tweaked. He is great in every evaluable trait, but probably only the best in speed.

As far as Centers, or even just forwards in general go, Beniers is my concrete number 1. Beniers is everything a team could want in a center. He is capable of high-end point production, incredible 200 ft awareness, and he moves with and without the puck very well. He isn't quite as gifted offensively as say Stu, but he is more than gifted enough to make any line better. High skill and IQ across the board and probably the best wheels north/south in the draft. Overall he is a #1 Center for any team and ideally complements high-end talent/offensively dominant players. Specifically for the Sens his speed/High 2 way IQ/Great hands/puck movement make him the perfect complement to Tim's game. Eklund might be slightly more capable of dictating play/skilled, but he isn't as well-rounded. Also from my viewings, Eklund's vision is not quite as good as Beniers. Kent Johnson probably has the best IQ, but his speed is not the same level as Beniers. Overall, others would work, but based on my viewings of players so far Beniers is the Center who I can really envision blending with Tim to make something really special.

I don't like doing comparables, but if forced to I would say Beniers is Sean Couturier 2.0. Everything that makes Coots great Beniers is. The biggest difference is Beniers likely makes an offensive impact significantly sooner

 

[Answer]

For sure, I was partly teasing. We will definitely need another high end forward and ideally a center if Stutzle isn't it.

Just thought it was funny seeing Mackinnon's name slipped in there, considering he's arguably one of the best players in the league atm and certainly better than anyone on our roster.

It's not hard to find a better player than anyone on our roster since the best player we have is Tkachuk (going by this forum).

It would be ideal having Tkachuk and Norris combo playing behind Stutzle and a Center who is better than Norris and can produce at an elite level

Stutzle - _____
Tkachuk - Norris
Formenton - White

Insert everyone else accordingly

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's not hard to find a better player than anyone on our roster since the best player we have is Tkachuk (going by this forum).

It would be ideal having Tkachuk and Norris combo playing behind Stutzle and a Center who is better than Norris and can produce at an elite level

Stutzle - _____
Tkachuk - Norris
Formenton - White

Insert everyone else accordingly

Lol true story. We will likely never have a player as good as Mackinnon either unless Stutzle gets there.

Agree on your assessment for placement, but would also be okay with Stutzle being tried out at center before moving on from that idea entirely.

 

[Answer]

Lol true story. We will likely never have a player as good as Mackinnon either unless Stutzle gets there.

Agree on your assessment for placement, but would also be okay with Stutzle being tried out at center before moving on from that idea entirely.

I am more than fine with finding or drafting a Center who is equivalent to Stutzle in skill level. It's pretty safe to say that this organization has no plans to move Stutzle to the Center position, or it doesn't seem like it.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

I am more than fine with finding or drafting a Center who is equivalent to Stutzle in skill level. It's pretty safe to say that this organization has no plans to move Stutzle to the Center position, or it doesn't seem like it.

Really? I expect we'll see him at Centre before the end of the year.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Really? I expect we'll see him at Centre before the end of the year.

Lol they’ve literally said the plan is to play him at C

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

It would be ideal having Tkachuk and Norris combo playing behind Stutzle and a Center who is better than Norris and can produce at an elite level

Stutzle - _____
Tkachuk - Norris
Formenton - White

Insert everyone else accordingly

It wouldn't just be ideal, it could turn us into contender for years and years to come. Ideal is having Stutzle breakout as number 1 C alongside Tkachuk. Tkachuk as our 2nd line LW means we are *****ing STACKED.

M.Tkachuk-Stutzle
Tkachuk-Norris
Formenton-Pinto-White
Paul-Kelly

Chabot-
Sanderson-
Kleven-

That's a ridiculous core.

 

[Icelevel]

I am more than fine with finding or drafting a Center who is equivalent to Stutzle in skill level. It's pretty safe to say that this organization has no plans to move Stutzle to the Center position, or it doesn't seem like it.

DJ said last week that the plan was to move Stutzle to center. They were just giving him some time to get comfortable with the ice and speed.

 

[Icelevel]

We only need a true #1 center and we are set to contend if our main prospect live up to their potential (not necessarily stars), except Stutzle of course, who will be a star.

I don't see why this line up can't compete in next 2-3 years. I will slot in Mackinnon just for reference

Stutzle - Mackinnon - Dadonov (or Dadonov replacement)
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Formenton - White - Paul
Abramov - Pinto - Grieg (we have a lot of options there)

Chabot - Brenard Docker
Sanderson - Brannstrom
Lassi T/Kleven - Zub

Also...the plan is likely for pinto to be the 2C so,

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Batherson
Formenton-Pinto-Norris
Greig-White-Dadonov
Kelly-Paul-Abramov

Playoffs

 

[Answer]

Also...the plan is likely for pinto to be the 2C so,

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Batherson
Formenton-Pinto-Norris
Greig-White-Dadonov
Kelly-Paul-Abramov

Playoffs

So, Pinto is better than Norris, as a sure thing?