Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals 2019-20 PART IX

[Wondercarrot]

Just for laughs.
How would everyone feel about trading for Tom Wilson & Josh Anderson then rolling out this lineup up front? Aragorn, this ones for you. (also would take Sanderson at 5)
Could we grind teams into the dust?

Tkachuk 6'4 215 Byfield 6'5 235 Batherson 6'3 190
Formenton 6'3 190 Brown 6'6 225 Wilson 6'4 225
Brown 6' 190 Norris 6'1 195 Anderson 6'3 220
Paul 6'3 220 Pinto 6'2 195 Fav prospect

 

[saskriders]

So how high do you think we can trade up using the Islanders pick and two or three of our seconds?

 

[Wondercarrot]

Good points. It is entirely contingent on NYR's willingness to part with the pick. The last time the 1st overall was traded was in 2003 in which the Penguins traded 3rd overall, 55th overall and Mikael Samuelsson to the Panthers for 1st overall and 73rd overall. The 2003 draft was a strong draft so I am using that trade as a benchmark for the relative value of 1st overall. My assumption is that any trade would need to have equivalent if not superior value to that trade. Given the number of assets the Senators currently hold I believe a compelling package could be created even with the Senators still retaining 3rd overall. As I posted before my suggested trade was 5th overall, NYI 1st rounder, Chris Tierney, Rudolfs Balcers and Jonathan Davidsson for 1st overall. Another poster on here suggested that we would need to replace Balcers and Davidsson with Brannstrom. I could see a deal looking something like what I have proposed here.

we are a position where overpaying is not really an issue I think.
I’d trade a lot to get Laf (and Byfield at 3)

#5
Isles pick #20/21
Logan Brown
Brannstrom

I think that hits everything on a NYR hit list. If they actually considered trading him, no way anyone else is offering more value than that.
IMO we can absorb it.
We still have the lineup below, 3 picks in the 2nd round, likely a top 10 next year as well as multiple 2nds...

Tkachuk Byfield Batherson
Lafreniere Norris Brown
Formenton Pinto White
Paul

Chabot JBD
Thomson
Wolanin

 

[Icelevel]

we are a position where overpaying is not really an issue I think.
I’d trade a lot to get Laf (and Byfield at 3)

#5
Isles pick #20/21
Logan Brown
Brannstrom

I think that hits everything on a NYR hit list. If they actually considered trading him, no way anyone else is offering more value than that.
IMO we can absorb it.
We still have the lineup below, 3 picks in the 2nd round, likely a top 10 next year as well as multiple 2nds...

Tkachuk Byfield Batherson
Lafreniere Norris Brown
Formenton Pinto White
Paul

Chabot JBD
Thomson
Wolanin

That’s not a bad idea. I’d make that offer. And I’m not down on brown or brannstrom. Still don’t think NY would do it.

 

[dumbdick]

I know people are big on trading up some picks, partly to keep the contract numbers down. But most of the focus is on the first round....what about consolidating some of our later picks to move into round 2? We've got 6 picks in round 3-7, including 3 in the top 100.

I think it would be cool to draft like 9-11 guys in the top 2 rounds (and nobody else all draft). That would be a hell of a prospect cohort and its supposed to be a deep draft.

 

[Wondercarrot]

That’s not a bad idea. I’d make that offer. And I’m not down on brown or brannstrom. Still don’t think NY would do it.

yeah I really don’t know.
I’m not down on Brown or Brannstrom at all either but we have really good center depth with Byfield/Stutzle in the mix as the #1. Slotting looks good.
The risky part is sacrificing Brannstrom since unlike Brown at C we don’t have much on the LS defence.
I’m gambling we pick a quality D somewhere with next years 1st or the 5 2nds.

 

[Korpse]

Thats fine if you want to call Dzingle a marginal player now which is true. But he was still a had back to back 22 goal seasons including that number in only 57 games in 2018.

We got Duclair and two 2nd round picks for Dzingel. Give credit to Dorion on that one as he crushed that deal.

He has always been a marginal player. He was moved up in the lineup because a lack of better options. To his credit he capitalized but it's less than ideal that he is having those kind of opportunities. Same goes for Duclair imo, skilled players but when they are playing a big role you aren't going far.

 

[BloodRedArmy]

From a reddit post:
Isles pick for Tristan Jarry?

I would. I think he's a stud.

 

[GCK]

From a reddit post:
Isles pick for Tristan Jarry?

I would. I think he's a stud.

Perhaps, I may want a pick back as well. I’d take him before Murray for sure.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

we are a position where overpaying is not really an issue I think.
I’d trade a lot to get Laf (and Byfield at 3)

#5
Isles pick #20/21
Logan Brown
Brannstrom

I think that hits everything on a NYR hit list. If they actually considered trading him, no way anyone else is offering more value than that.
IMO we can absorb it.
We still have the lineup below, 3 picks in the 2nd round, likely a top 10 next year as well as multiple 2nds...

Tkachuk Byfield Batherson
Lafreniere Norris Brown
Formenton Pinto White
Paul

Chabot JBD
Thomson
Wolanin

This hits nothing on our list. There is no way in hell you're getting that pick without at least 3+5, and likely even that isn't enough.

 

[aragorn]

I'd rather see them trade prospects than picks, especially with so many borderline prospects in the system, some may have enough value to move up in a few places on draft day. While I doubt Ottawa trades either of their first two picks the NYI pick could be used along with a prospect to move up to get their guy.

IMO the same could be said about the 2nd rd where they can find some quality players to draft. Move up where & when you need to using a prospect & later picks combination. I wouldn't trade any of the prospects that are part of the future of this team with the exception of maybe one or two players with value who I don't see as part of their future. Once they know what they have with all the players they will draft next month than they can start the analysis as to who could be on their future team & who can moved to get someone better.

 

[Micklebot]

This hits nothing on our list. There is no way in hell you're getting that pick without at least 3+5, and likely even that isn't enough.

Respectfuly, if the Rangers aren't willing to move 1st OA for anything less than 3+5 oa, then they simply aren't interested in moving 1st OA at all, which is fine.

Brown and Brannstrom may not hit their needs, they may not be willing to move back all the way to 5th either, but Lafreniere isn't MacDavid, no team is going to offer a package that comes close to 3+5.

If i were trying to place the value of 1st OA using solely picks (including picks OTT owns and some they don't) i might offer something like this;

3rd OA, 15 OA(placeholder), nyi 22oa, 33rd OA

Or

5th OA, 10th OA(placeholder), nyi 22OA, 33rd OA.

Those to me are fair value (it's likely more than any historical equivalent trade), which might not be enough to convince NYR to move 1st, but its the limit of what imo is reasonable for Ott to give up. Figure out what combination of prospects NYR would want in place of 10 or 15th OA and you have a trade proposal.

 

[Bileur]

Just for laughs.
How would everyone feel about trading for Tom Wilson & Josh Anderson then rolling out this lineup up front? Aragorn, this ones for you. (also would take Sanderson at 5)
Could we grind teams into the dust?

Tkachuk 6'4 215 Byfield 6'5 235 Batherson 6'3 190
Formenton 6'3 190 Brown 6'6 225 Wilson 6'4 225
Brown 6' 190 Norris 6'1 195 Anderson 6'3 220
Paul 6'3 220 Pinto 6'2 195 Fav prospect

You lost me at « Brown 6’ 190 ». At least swing a trade for Bjugstad or something.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Respectfuly, if the Rangers aren't willing to move 1st OA for anything less than 3+5 oa, then they simply aren't interested in moving 1st OA at all, which is fine.

Brown and Brannstrom may not hit their needs, they may not be willing to move back all the way to 5th either, but Lafreniere isn't MacDavid, no team is going to offer a package that comes close to 3+5.

If i were trying to place the value of 1st OA using solely picks (including picks OTT owns and some they don't) i might offer something like this;

3rd OA, 15 OA(placeholder), nyi 22oa, 33rd OA

Or

5th OA, 10th OA(placeholder), nyi 22OA, 33rd OA.

Those to me are fair value (it's likely more than any historical equivalent trade), which might not be enough to convince NYR to move 1st, but its the limit of what imo is reasonable for Ott to give up. Figure out what combination of prospects NYR would want in place of 10 or 15th OA and you have a trade proposal.

The thing is, fair value is not getting that pick. It would have to be unfair value. Value so big that the Rangers would be stupid not to take it. Those deals you offered aren’t it.

 

[Sweatred]

The thing is, fair value is not getting that pick. It would have to be unfair value. Value so big that the Rangers would be stupid not to take it. Those deals you offered aren’t it.

Or the Rangers could draft the player they need/want in By/Stutz/Drysdale and give away draft value.

 

[Micklebot]

The thing is, fair value is not getting that pick. It would have to be unfair value. Value so big that the Rangers would be stupid not to take it. Those deals you offered aren’t it.

Which is fine. If they aren't interested in making a hockey deal, nothing needs to happen. No team with 1st OA will turn down an absurd offer off course, but every team will say thats what it will take to get teams to offer up more. In the end though, its about what makes them a better team, and the timing of the improvement.

Imo, NYR are looking to win soon, so Lafreniere is appealing because he can make an impact right away in the next 5 years. Picks like the hypothetical 10 or 15th, 22nd OA and 33rd OA don't reaally offer that so while they balance out the value they aren't as desireable.

I think prospects on the cusp of playing like Bernard-Docker, Brannstrom, Batherson, and Norris are probably the most enticing for a team looking to make an immediate impact.

If the NYR are looking to win in the next 5 seasons, what offers them a better shot at it, Lafreniere, or a combination of a top 5 pick, and two or three of Batherson, L.Brown, Norris, Bernard-Docker and Brannstrom? Add in some futures on either side to balance the value if needed.

In the end, you and they may feel Lafreniere gives them the best chance and pass on a trade option, but the point is a deal can get done with fair value if it aligns with the over goal of being a better team at the right time.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Which is fine. If they aren't interested in making a hockey deal, nothing needs to happen. No team with 1st OA will turn down an absurd offer off course, but every team will say thats what it will take to get teams to offer up more. In the end though, its about what makes them a better team, and the timing of the improvement.

Imo, NYR are looking to win soon, so Lafreniere is appealing because he can make an impact right away in the next 5 years. Picks like the hypothetical 10 or 15th, 22nd OA and 33rd OA don't reaally offer that so while they balance out the value they aren't as desireable.

I think prospects on the cusp of playing like Bernard-Docker, Brannstrom, Batherson, and Norris are probably the most enticing for a team looking to make an immediate impact.

If the NYR are looking to win in the next 5 seasons, what offers them a better shot at it, Lafreniere, or a combination of a top 5 pick, and two or three of Batherson, L.Brown, Norris, Bernard-Docker and Brannstrom? Add in some futures on either side to balance the value if needed.

In the end, you and they may feel Lafreniere gives them the best chance and pass on a trade option, but the point is a deal can get done with fair value if it aligns with the over goal of being a better team at the right time.

It’s Laf plus all the other assets that the rangers have accumulated since they started rebuilding. Rangers aren’t devoid of prospects and now need quality over quantity.

making a trade for 1 overall would never be a hockey trade. We have no want or need to trade that pick.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Or the Rangers could draft the player they need/want in By/Stutz/Drysdale and give away draft value.

The player they need/want is Lafreniere

 

[Micklebot]

Or the Rangers could draft the player they need/want in By/Stutz/Drysdale and give away draft value.

Wishfull thinking imo. They'll draft Lafreniere and if needed make a trade or sign a UFA down the road to fill organizational needs. Highly unlikely they'd pass on Lafreniere if they don't trade the pick.

 

[Sweatred]

Wishfull thinking imo. They'll draft Lafreniere and if needed make a trade or sign a UFA down the road to fill organizational needs. Highly unlikely they'd pass on Lafreniere if they don't trade the pick.

Ya ... I think it’s highly unlikely too ... but I think they are debating it. IMO this isn’t a consensus #1OA dream selection for the Rangers like McDavid, Crosby, or even LAF in Ottawa.

They can’t just snap their fingers and add a 1-2C or 1-2Dman. They are an attractive destination for players but they are still challenged to fill holes and they will be cap heavy down the road.

 

[Micklebot]

It’s Laf plus all the other assets that the rangers have accumulated since they started rebuilding. Rangers aren’t devoid of prospects and now need quality over quantity.



making a trade for 1 overall would never be a hockey trade. We have no want or need to trade that pick.

And that's fine, if NYR place more value on the concept of 1st oa than on the value of the pieces on either side of a trade offer, and the likelihood of them helping in achieving the overall goal of winning it all, thats their perogative.

If they think Laf is the best option to help them win it all, that's fine too.

I think discussing trades becomes a bit dull if they are wild overpayment or lowball offer, its when neither side is 100% satisfied that the deal is likely closest to being a realistic posibility, so for me, tha means deals like 3+5 as well as 5+22+Brannstrom+Brown are off the table.

 

[Micklebot]

Ya ... I think it’s highly unlikely too ... but I think they are debating it. IMO this isn’t a consensus #1OA dream selection for the Rangers like McDavid, Crosby, or even LAF in Ottawa.

They can’t just snap their fingers and add a 1-2C or 1-2Dman. They are an attractive destination for players but they are still challenged to fill holes and they will be cap heavy down the road.

If Byfield Stutzle or Drysdale are good enough that they could consider passing on Lafreniere for them, they'll be getting the kind of deals Marner et co got when they come off their ECL anyways, so cap implications aren't really a driving factor.

Lafreniere may not be a McDavid tier prospect, but this also isnt like Hall vs Seguin where there is a tangible debate over who will go first. Never say never but it would be a huge shock to see any team regardless of org needs pass on Lafreniere.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

And that's fine, if NYR place more value on the concept of 1st oa than on the value of the pieces on either side of a trade offer, and the likelihood of them helping in achieving the overall goal of winning it all, thats their perogative.

If they think Laf is the best option to help them win it all, that's fine too.

I think discussing trades becomes a bit dull if they are wild overpayment or lowball offer, its when neither side is 100% satisfied that the deal is likely closest to being a realistic posibility, so for me, tha means deals like 3+5 as well as 5+22+Brannstrom+Brown are off the table.

But that’s the thing, the Rangers, who don’t want or need to trade the pick, have no reason to make a deal without being completely 100% satisfied in the deal. It’s their market and they can name whatever price they want.

 

[Micklebot]

But that’s the thing, the Rangers, who don’t want or need to trade the pick, have no reason to make a deal without being completely 100% satisfied in the deal. It’s their market and they can name whatever price they want.

Rarely does a team ever need to make a deal. They choose to because its in their best interest. That doesn't mean that because it's in their best interest they are 100% satisfied.

 

[jhutter]

we are a position where overpaying is not really an issue I think.
I’d trade a lot to get Laf (and Byfield at 3)

#5
Isles pick #20/21
Logan Brown
Brannstrom

I think that hits everything on a NYR hit list. If they actually considered trading him, no way anyone else is offering more value than that.
IMO we can absorb it.
We still have the lineup below, 3 picks in the 2nd round, likely a top 10 next year as well as multiple 2nds...

Tkachuk Byfield Batherson
Lafreniere Norris Brown
Formenton Pinto White
Paul

Chabot JBD
Thomson
Wolanin

The Rangers are going to need more than that. Brown and Brannstrom aren't proven commodities. I think the Sens (and the rest of the league) are priced out of trading for #1. Which is good in my opinion, as I don't believe the juice would be worth the squeeze.