Rumor: Trade rumours/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 7): (Mod warning post #521)

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Hamilton is an excellent offensive defender who plays sound enough a defensive game. He'd be the perfect number 3 defender on this team anchoring 2nd pairing with Lajoie.

I hope Dzingel and Ceci is the ask.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Why is Hamilton constantly being traded, it’s kind of alarming.

 

[BatherSeason]

I think it's a very good trade. Save money (you're welcome Euge), and you get a free shot at a struggling prospect with potential. Only traded away someone who doesn't have a spot in your lineup and wouldn't have in the future. There's not really anything at risk here.

A very good trade, but a trade that wouldn't even had to have been made if Pierre Dorion didn't decide to reward McCormick with a one-way contract. We have a front office of like 3 people, and one of them is the owner, Pierre Dorion doesn't have time to correct his own mistakes.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

So you’re saying that he didn’t mention the team making the playoffs this year in his interview.

I mean isn’t it a fact that the team played worse when three of our best players went down? Is it a coincidence that it coincides with the only time we went on a massive losing skid this year?

There is what PD said, and then there is what you’re interpreting. Common sense would dictate that he feels like the team would be around where his pre season expectations were, not at the absolute bottom of the league, or making the playoffs for that matter.

Somehow you’ve become one of the leaders in the charge to ‘interpret’ everything and anything in a way that allows you to bash PD, no matter how much of a stretch it may be.

This line of reasoning is straight up rediculous. The man never mentioned making the playoffs, but don’t let that get in your way...

Well go break down Ian Mendes' door for putting it in print on Canada's biggest sports network then. From the guy that actually had the conversation with him. People actually read that, nobody cares about what's put on HFboards.

The STH meeting was reportedly hostile because of these and other disingenuous comments, so again, that's not me reporting it, it's in print on Canada's 2nd biggest sports network.

You can pretend it's just Dorion bashing all you want, but we're just calling him out on saying things that will only further alienate them from connecting with their fans. If he doesn't want it taken that way, then don't put it out there where even the man having that conversation with him took it as he did. Don't even bring up the injuries, just take responsibility for the team being exactly where everyone predicted.

Maybe I just want to hold them to higher standards, while you and others are just happy with a nice guy giving it the old college try. You say I'm extreme, while I would argue you and others just want to give him a pass for doing such a poor job. This is the NHL, it's a cut throat business and I feel his performance should already have him axed and seeing him out there passing off injuries as an excuse is just ridiculous. He put together a team that was predicted to be one of the worst in the league, and it is THE worst in the league, and injuries have nothing to do with that.

 

[BatherSeason]

He's a 4th liner, and he returned a 2nd.
Dzingel is a top 6 who can actually score, he easily fetches more.

NHL GMs looooove guys like Boyle. Big bodied 4th liners who win faceoffs. All NHL GMs are bad.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

No, I remember everyone was unanimous that it was a bad signing

Unanimous? Please. Nothing here is ever unanimous.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

We should stop trying to make it seem like PD thought this guy was going to be a regular NHLer

He was given pretty minor reward money for being a good soldier for the AHL team. He was brought up as a 4th liner filler several times, as a nod from The big club and also on the off chance that he seriously stepped into a 12/13 role player.

His money has zero effect on the team budget, and is the type of move that helps the club’s image for guys toiling in the minors. Boro also got similar treatment and has been able to carve out a little NHL career.

Nice little trade, turns an expiring asset into a renewed one.

Well we said we wanted to get Belleville into the playoffs. Does this help that

 

[Ice-Tray]

Well go break down Ian Mendes' door for putting it in print on Canada's biggest sports network then. From the guy that actually had the conversation with him. People actually read that, nobody cares about what's put on HFboards.

The STH meeting was reportedly hostile because of these and other disingenuous comments, so again, that's not me reporting it, it's in print on Canada's 2nd biggest sports network.

You can pretend it's just Dorion bashing all you want, but we're just calling him out on saying things that will only further alienate them from connecting with their fans. If he doesn't want it taken that way, then don't put it out there where even the man having that conversation with him took it as he did. Don't even bring up the injuries, just take responsibility for the team being exactly where everyone predicted.

Maybe I just want to hold them to higher standards, while you and others are just happy with a nice guy giving it the old college try. You say I'm extreme, while I would argue you and others just want to give him a pass for doing such a poor job. This is the NHL, it's a cut throat business and I feel his performance should already have him axed and seeing him out there passing off injuries as an excuse is just ridiculous. He put together a team that was predicted to be one of the worst in the league, and it is THE worst in the league, and injuries have nothing to do with that.

I just listened to the interview again, and there is just no way a listener can take what he said and turn it into “we missed the playoffs this year because guys were injured”.

You are sharing your opinion, and it’s off base given what the man actually said. Now, if you want to co-opt your opinion making abilities and listening comprehension skills to another man, go ahead, but there is no way a rational person could listen to that interview and surmise that PD thought this team was going to make the playoffs but missed because of injuries.

But the media printed it so it must be true!!! Give me a break, the source is available to listen to, it just won’t support your angry opinion on this issue, so perhaps that’s why your avoiding it?

He just never comes close to alluding to that. He even makes it clear that injuries are not an excuse and that all team have them. He pretty much just muses about the unfortunate timing of them all when the team was playing better.

Then he moves on and talks about our injured players and promising prospects.

Nowhere does he talk about us making the playoffs this season. If mendes took that from the interview he’s as off base as you are.

The rest of your post is just angry moaning, which you’re entitled to do, and I’m not going to debate any of it.

 

[Xspyrit]

So what is Dorion trade record since the Karlsson trade?

Gave up :

2019 6th round pick (OTT)

Reclamation projects prospect :

Gabriel Gagné

Micro cap dumps :

Chris Wideman
Tom Pyatt
Max McCormick

Solid AHLers :

Paul Carey
Ben Sexton
Mike McKenna

Absolutely no value :

Macoy Erkamps


Received :

Anders Nilsson
2020 6th round pick (STL)

Reclamation projects prospects :

Morgan Klimchuk
J.C. Beaudin
Tobias Lindberg

Solid AHLers :

Stefan Elliott
Darren Archibald
Cody Goloubef

- The 6th round picks cancel each others
- gave up 3 solid AHLers for 3 different solid AHLers,
- gave up on Gagné but got 3 prospects reclamation projects of the same kind
- got what seems to be a solid back-up, might be extended (hopefully not as long and expensive as Condon)
- best part is that we dumped Wideman, Pyatt and McCormick and saved a bit of money. Those 3 players are done in the NHL., they were arguably the 3 worse players on the team (with Boro)

Nothing major, but overall it's in the right direction.

Sure, but would you be happy with a 2nd for Dzingel? I'd be disappointed personally.

Dorion's ask is a 1st per Garrioch.

With the talk about there being renewed interest in OTT extending him, could that be a consequence of the Senators not wanting to deal him in a weak market, and offers being soft? I wonder the ask being a 1st means the Senators would abandon all interest in extending him if someone stepped up with that offer. If there's a concrete ask and Dzingel is still here, it probably means that nobody has stepped up and offered that yet.

I'm thinking Dzingel value should be what Fisher was traded for in 2011 (1st + conditional 2nd or 3rd). Fisher was older though (30) but had 2 years left at 4.2 (which would be like 5.6 today)

 

[Ice-Tray]

Well we said we wanted to get Belleville into the playoffs. Does this help that

Haha, yeah small victories indeed

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Hmmm Zack Smith has more points than Boyle in less games and is also 4 years younger and more versatile.

Difference being that Smith has 2 extra years at $700K increase per year on the cap hit.

I wonder if we are able to retain like 30% of the salary, he could be an attractive commodity to a team like Winnipeg or Calgary looking for C depth.

Smith at $2.25M could be considered a positive asset that could get you a draft pick or two.

 

[Agent Zub]

We should stop trying to make it seem like PD thought this guy was going to be a regular NHLer

He was given pretty minor reward money for being a good soldier for the AHL team. He was brought up as a 4th liner filler several times, as a nod from The big club and also on the off chance that he seriously stepped into a 12/13 role player.

His money has zero effect on the team budget, and is the type of move that helps the club’s image for guys toiling in the minors. Boro also got similar treatment and has been able to carve out a little NHL career.

Nice little trade, turns an expiring asset into a renewed one.

Lmao

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

The bot net seems to be firing up pretty hard right now. I wonder if something is about to happen?

 

[BatherSeason]

We should stop trying to make it seem like PD thought this guy was going to be a regular NHLer

PIERRE DORION GAVE HIM A ONE-WAY CONTRACT, SO YES, HE ACTUALLY THOUGHT THIS.

 

[stempniaksen]

Hmmm Zack Smith has more points than Boyle in less games and is also 4 years younger and more versatile.

Difference being that Smith has 2 extra years at $700K increase per year on the cap hit.

I wonder if we are able to retain like 30% of the salary, he could be an attractive commodity to a team like Winnipeg or Calgary looking for C depth.

Smith at $2.25M could be considered a positive asset that could get you a draft pick or two.

Term is a killer and he's still a negative asset because of it. If he was a UFA I don't even think we would need to retain on him to bring back a ~3rd, but no team is going to hitch their wagon to a 30 year old 4th liner with multiple years left at that hit.

Also, maybe a minor point, but they have the same amount of points and Boyle is more than doubling him in goals. Maybe teams feel more comfortable moving a bit more for a guy that can "create his own offence" to a certain extent, instead of a guy getting secondary assists (not that offence is either one of their strengths).

 

[Ice-Tray]

PIERRE DORION GAVE HIM A ONE-WAY CONTRACT, SO YES, HE ACTUALLY THOUGHT THIS.

Naw, that’s not how one way contracts work. It just means he gets the same dollars no matter where he plays, it doesn’t mean he’s guaranteed to make the big team.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

So what is Dorion trade record since the Karlsson trade?

Gave up :

2019 6th round pick (OTT)

Reclamation projects prospect :

Gabriel Gagné

Micro cap dumps :

Chris Wideman
Tom Pyatt
Max McCormick

Solid AHLers :

Paul Carey
Ben Sexton
Mike McKenna

Absolutely no value :

Macoy Erkamps


Received :

Anders Nilsson
2020 6th round pick (STL)

Reclamation projects prospects :

Morgan Klimchuk
J.C. Beaudin
Tobias Lindberg

Solid AHLers :

Stefan Elliott
Darren Archibald
Cody Goloubef

- The 6th round picks cancel each others
- gave up 3 solid AHLers for 3 different solid AHLers,
- gave up on Gagné but got 3 prospects reclamation projects of the same kind
- got what seems to be a solid back-up, might be extended (hopefully not as long and expensive as Condon)
- best part is that we dumped Wideman, Pyatt and McCormick and saved a bit of money. Those 3 players are done in the NHL., they were arguably the 3 worse players on the team (with Boro)

Nothing major, but overall it's in the right direction.



I'm thinking Dzingel value should be what Fisher was traded for in 2011 (1st + conditional 2nd or 3rd). Fisher was older though (30) but had 2 years left at 4.2 (which would be like 5.6 today)

Fisher wasn't a rental, played a more important position, and was more established.

One thing going against Dzingel is that he has never come close to these 30/60 numbers before. I think that's depressing the market for him. GMs don't want to give up a 1st for a rental and be worried he's going to regress to the norm after the trade, defeating the purpose.

I don't think Fisher is a good comparable. I think we should get a 1st for Dzingel, but it would not surprise me if we don't with how crowded this market supposedly is. Evander Kane only got a 2nd+a prospect last TDL. It became a 1st conditionally because he re-signed. I could see a scenario like that play out.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Hmmm Zack Smith has more points than Boyle in less games and is also 4 years younger and more versatile.

Difference being that Smith has 2 extra years at $700K increase per year on the cap hit.

I wonder if we are able to retain like 30% of the salary, he could be an attractive commodity to a team like Winnipeg or Calgary looking for C depth.

Smith at $2.25M could be considered a positive asset that could get you a draft pick or two.

If I recall, teams were willing to give us an asset for Smith, but it was contingent on the Sens taking back salary in some form.

I forgot who said this, might have been Bob McKenzie, it came out at the start of the season.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Naw, that’s not how one way contracts work. It just means he gets the same dollars no matter where he plays, it doesn’t mean he’s guaranteed to make the big team.

He didn't think he was a NHL player but decided to give him a guaranteed NHL salary despite having limited financial resources for his NHL roster. The logic is incredible.

 

[BatherSeason]

Naw, that’s not how one way contracts work. It just means he gets the same dollars no matter where he plays, it doesn’t mean he’s guaranteed to make the big team.

He did start the season with the big team didn't he?? He also beat out much more deserving players didn't he? Dorion also kept him around until Dec 17th, didn't he??

Pretty simple here, Dorion screwed up and Melnyk doesn't like spending 6 figures on AHL players, so Dorion was instructed to move him ASAP. This sounds more typical of Dorion and the Ottawa Senators than the picture you seem to be painting

 

[Spartachat]

Why is Hamilton constantly being traded, it’s kind of alarming.

He spends too much time at the museum.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I just listened to the interview again, and there is just no way a listener can take what he said and turn it into “we missed the playoffs this year because guys were injured”.

You are sharing your opinion, and it’s off base given what the man actually said. Now, if you want to co-opt your opinion making abilities and listening comprehension skills to another man, go ahead, but there is no way a rational person could listen to that interview and surmise that PD thought this team was going to make the playoffs but missed because of injuries.

But the media printed it so it must be true!!! Give me a break, the source is available to listen to, it just won’t support your angry opinion on this issue, so perhaps that’s why your avoiding it?

He just never comes close to alluding to that. He even makes it clear that injuries are not an excuse and that all team have them. He pretty much just muses about the unfortunate timing of them all when the team was playing better.

Then he moves on and talks about our injured players and promising prospects.

Nowhere does he talk about us making the playoffs this season. If mendes took that from the interview he’s as off base as you are.

The rest of your post is just angry moaning, which you’re entitled to do, and I’m not going to debate any of it.

"No way", and yet the guy that had the conversation with him did. You're free to interpret the comments however you like, and you always prefer to give this team a free pass and we hold completely different opinions on this team, so by all means keep doing that. I've seen enough that this guy should have been turfed long ago and he'll never get the benefit of the doubt from me again. They deserve every bit of vitriol pointed their way imo and I hope it continues, because until Dorion is no longer GM, this team will continue to lynch themselves beyond Melnyk's influence.

Like the Scanlan article pointed out, he got the same reaction at the private STH meeting pointing to injuries as a reason they under performed, even though, no there are no direct references to playoffs. I've already stated that, but it's clear it's not just me that he annoyed with his comments about this team not performing up to expectations. Again, he put together the worst roster in the league this year and it is exactly where it belongs. They shouldn't be doing anything other than taking full responsibility for where this team is, it's 100% on them.

He does not "make clear" of anything, just just literally used it as an excuse and tried to follow it up by saying it's not an excuse. I'm sorry, but that's using it as an excuse and trying to cover your tracks doesn't change it, he brought it up for a reason. His first interview in two months and one of the first things out of his mouth is about injuries limiting performance, and we wonder why the fan base is done with them.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He did start the season with the big team didn't he?? He also beat out much more deserving players didn't he? Dorion also kept him around until Dec 17th, didn't he??

Pretty simple here, Dorion screwed up and Melnyk doesn't like spending 6 figures on AHL players, so Dorion was instructed to move him ASAP. This sounds more typical of Dorion and the Ottawa Senators than the picture you seem to be painting

They gave him a good look, as they no doubt promised him they would, like Harper, like Boro, guys who had worked hard in the AHL, and who may have an outside chance at battling for a spot if give the right chance and incentive.

There is nothing lost at giving certain guys a shot. Some deserve small one way deals for services rendered, and others don’t. McCormick was given his shot, thanked for his service, and is now traded. Personally I think this kind of behavior looks good on the organization, and has seemingly been passed down from BM.

Trying to bash PD for signing him to a one way deal because he thought he was going to crack the roster and failed in his assessment is yet another example of a PD hate reach. I’m not sure why you guys spend the effort. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for fans to be upset with PD, trying to mischatactwrizr minor moves and turn molehills into mountains seems like such a waste, well, beyond this fun banter of course.

 

[Ice-Tray]

"No way", and yet the guy that had the conversation with him did. You're free to interpret the comments however you like, and you always prefer to give this team a free pass and we hold completely different opinions on this team, so by all means keep doing that. I've seen enough that this guy should have been turfed long ago and he'll never get the benefit of the doubt from me again. They deserve every bit of vitriol pointed their way imo and I hope it continues, because until Dorion is no longer GM, this team will continue to lynch themselves beyond Melnyk's influence.

Like the Scanlan article pointed out, he got the same reaction at the private STH meeting pointing to injuries as a reason they under performed, even though, no there are no direct references to playoffs. I've already stated that, but it's clear it's not just me that he annoyed with his comments about this team not performing up to expectations. Again, he put together the worst roster in the league this year and it is exactly where it belongs.

He does not "make clear" of anything, just just literally used it as an excuse and tried to follow it up by saying it's not an excuse. I'm sorry, but that's using it as an excuse and trying to cover your tracks doesn't change it, he brought it up for a reason. His first interview in two months and one of the first things out of his mouth is about injuries limiting performance, and we wonder why the fan base is done with them.

So you didn’t go back and listen to it did you?

Your ranting aside I’d be genuinely interested to hear how Mendes was able to make the conclusions he did based on what PD actually said, tone and all.

Perhaps something off air was said, or perhaps Mendes write the article off memory.

I am staunch in my assessment that a reasonable person could not listen to that interview and come to that conclusion based on what Dorion said, not without a massive dose of purposeful bias, as you have exhibited.

Seriously, go have a listen. I don’t care that your mad at the guy, lord knows it his mantle to wear, but his playoff stuff is just plain silly based on what he said in his interview.

 

[Alex1234]

We should stop trying to make it seem like PD thought this guy was going to be a regular NHLer

He was given pretty minor reward money for being a good soldier for the AHL team. He was brought up as a 4th liner filler several times, as a nod from The big club and also on the off chance that he seriously stepped into a 12/13 role player.

His money has zero effect on the team budget, and is the type of move that helps the club’s image for guys toiling in the minors. Boro also got similar treatment and has been able to carve out a little NHL career.

Nice little trade, turns an expiring asset into a renewed one.

Can you tell me who you think is not a good soldier in Belleville?
Just curious