Rumor: Trade rumours/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 7): (Mod warning post #521)

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Ice-Tray

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Jan 31, 2006
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Dreger came out and said it was almost a done trade 1 for 1, go ask Dreger to substantiate the claim. If it's coming from Dreger, it's very likely to be credible.

Funny, doesn’t Dreger get slammed in here? Also, what does almost a done deal mean? Did Edmonton pull out?

Seems like a bit of a reach to be using as a fact to brain our GM with no?

Pretty sure that’s the point I’m making. There are lots of legitimate things to take an angry perspective about.

Also, there seems to be some confusion about questioning the legitimacy of ‘facts’. When someone presents something as fact it’s on them to prove it so. In a trial for instance, the accused doesn’t have to prove their innocence only draw doubt concerning the facts presented

It’s not on me to prove buddies rumour is false, by vary definition the rumour isn’t a fact and shouldn’t be used as such.
 

Gil Gunderson

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What about Ryan saying that he thought he and Erik were going to Vegas the night before the deadline?

Is that not credible enough too?
 

stempniaksen

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It’s also fair to say that we shouldn’t be 31st overall when we’re playing to our skill levels. Bottom 10 works for me.

Why is that fair to say? There's a lot of people that pegged this team to be exactly where they are.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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It’s also fair to say that we shouldn’t be 31st overall when we’re playing to our skill levels. Bottom 10 works for me.

We finished 30th last year and removed Karlsson, Hoffman, Brassard, and Phaneuf and added Boedker, DeMelo, Tkachuk and Tierney... not sure why it would be safe to say we should be higher than 31st.

I get it, we had injuries, and some players might have under performed (not sure who tbh..) but that happens on every team. You can't just say if we played to our skill level without doing the same for every other team.

There's enough parity in the league that no team is a lock for any position; every team has a bubble in which they can be expected to land, but imo, dead last is definitely in the bubble that we should have expected to be occupying given our roster relative to other teams.
 

Sensmileletsgo

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Oct 22, 2018
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The three injuries to our best players coincided with our 8 game skid.

Mendes sets up the question by saying essentially that we were playing well above expectations until December happened, and asks PD his opinion. PD says that key injuries contributed to a big skid that dropped down the standings, but that he didn’t want to fully blame injuries because all teams have them. He mentions that the depth couldn’t keep them at the same level.

He doesn’t at all talk about making the playoffs, nor did he blam injuries for the team’s current fate. He seemed mildly disappointed with the standings, but also happy with the way some key kids have developed. It was basically the kind of interview that you would want and expect from your GM at the start of a rebuild. He goes on to talk about how guys are developing in Belleville, talks about Norris, about Anderson, and gives a real good assessment of how he’s not going to discuss ongoing player negotiations in the media, somethingost of us disliked about BM when he was GM.
In better days we would respect that PD is respecting the process and not discussing any of it.

If you were a fan that was out for blood and demanding heads to roll, this would not feed you, and you would pan it. Looking for ways to additionally chriticize the GM for things he didn’t say would be an added bonus.

I know you’re unhappy, and I know I won’t change your tune. Trust me I’m not trying to in general.
Thanks for giving a level headed assessment, as oppose to the usual mindless bashing that goes on here.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

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I’m pretty sure he said that injuries played a part in the 8 game slide in December, because they coincided, but said that injuries can’t be blamed as all teams have them.

Without those injuries we’d likely be plodding along bottom 10 somewhere, but we don’t have the talent depth to take those hits right now because we’re choked full of new players and kids.

Nowhere did PD make any excuses, nor does he say that we should be much better we are. I can extrapolate that he doesn’t think we’re 31st over all when healthy, and neither do I, but we don’t have the depth yet, as the kids are developing.

I think this has run its course, some people just can’t have nice things right now, like listening to an interview and taking it for what it is. The funny thing is that he gave lots of information about his thoughts and put our kids, but here we are hours later talking about somethi he didn’t say.

Honestly, take the last word, I’m done. :)
Your opinion and interpretation on these matters has been noted. I guess all us "haters" are crazy even though we're sitting here with the worst team in the league as predicted.
 
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Ice-Tray

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Your opinion and interpretation on these matters has been noted. I guess all us "haters" are crazy even though we're sitting here with the worst team in the league as predicted.

Not crazy, single-minded though, and not everyone. There are still many folks who are well upset that aren’t looking to make imaginary ammunition.

Also, the last place team comment doesn’t have anything to do with what we were talking about. If anything PD wasn’t overly phased by it, being appropriately disappointed, but happy with key prospect development regardless. He never passed the buck, or blamed injuries, or claimed that he thought this was a playoff team.

We are year one of a rebuild after all, expectations are low across the board.

Anyways, you and I have had a good debate, I’m going to put away the phone for a bit at this point as I have other things pending. Thanks for the engagement, we have vastly imposing views on the subject, and neither seems willing to budge, but it was well met in my opinion.

Cheers!
 

SPF6ty9

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Feb 22, 2016
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Funny, doesn’t Dreger get slammed in here? Also, what does almost a done deal mean? Did Edmonton pull out?

Seems like a bit of a reach to be using as a fact to brain our GM with no?

Pretty sure that’s the point I’m making. There are lots of legitimate things to take an angry perspective about.

Also, there seems to be some confusion about questioning the legitimacy of ‘facts’. When someone presents something as fact it’s on them to prove it so. In a trial for instance, the accused doesn’t have to prove their innocence only draw doubt concerning the facts presented

It’s not on me to prove buddies rumour is false, by vary definition the rumour isn’t a fact and shouldn’t be used as such.

I believe the story was Edmonton was interested in a deal involving Ceci for Hall, I don't think it was ever confirmed it was 1 for 1 (could be wrong), and then when Larsson was put on the table Chiarelli much preferred him to Ceci. I think this is kind of something that has been run with and exaggerated to make our management / ownership look bad.

I do think our management and ownership is not smart and I would not be surprised at all if a deal was discussed, but Ceci straight up for Hall? I find it hard to believe that even Chiarelli is THAT stupid (even if Ceci was better regarded back then).
 

L'Aveuglette

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I'm still blown away that Dorion insists on keeping Andy through the end of his contract.

Can't keep his core talent around but the aging goalie that I'm sure could net us a couple of nice picks at the TDL, he won't part with.

Go figure.
 
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DaveMatthew

Bring in Peter
Apr 13, 2005
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I'm still blown away that Dorion insists on keeping Andy through the end of his contract.

Can't keep his core talent around but the aging goalie that I'm sure could net us a couple of nice picks at the TDL, he won't part with.

Go figure.

It's funny, sometimes I think Dorion and Gord Wilson are the same person. A couple games ago on the pre-game show, he went on a rant about how you can't trade Anderson. "He's the backbone of the team, what kind of message would it send to the players if he were traded!"

The same message as Karlsson, Stone and Duchene?
 

L'Aveuglette

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It's funny, sometimes I think Dorion and Gord Wilson are the same person. A couple games ago on the pre-game show, he went on a rant about how you can't trade Anderson. "He's the backbone of the team, what kind of message would it send to the players if he were traded!"

The same message as Karlsson, Stone and Duchene?

It's honestly depressing how bad he is at evaluating the team, and I'm not surprised Gord shares the same outlook.
 

Sensung

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Oct 3, 2017
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Hey, we finally have two players ranked in the top 5 on a list on TSN with Duchene at 2 and Stone at 5.

Unfortunately, it’s the Trade Board.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
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I'm still blown away that Dorion insists on keeping Andy through the end of his contract.

Can't keep his core talent around but the aging goalie that I'm sure could net us a couple of nice picks at the TDL, he won't part with.

Go figure.

To be fair, without a good goalie this team isn't going anywhere, even if the prospects mostly pan out. Bad goalies can really sink rebuilds.

I do hope that holding on to him is partly due to no very enticing offers being made for him. The Flyers were interested but I don't think we ever got to know what they were willing to part with to get him. A late pick or a goalie who can win you games? Easy call in my mind, especially since we are trying to get Stone and Duchene to stay. They don't want to hear about how the scouts feel about a guy they could get with a late pick, they want a goalie who will help them win.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

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I'm still blown away that Dorion insists on keeping Andy through the end of his contract.

Can't keep his core talent around but the aging goalie that I'm sure could net us a couple of nice picks at the TDL, he won't part with.

Go figure.
It's also possible he can't be traded because of that extra year. Wasn't that long ago we were all wondering what the heck we were gonna do with that contract, and while he's bounced back compared to last year, he's obviously lost a step.
 

Karl Prime

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To be fair, without a good goalie this team isn't going anywhere, even if the prospects mostly pan out. Bad goalies can really sink rebuilds.

I do hope that holding on to him is partly due to no very enticing offers being made for him. The Flyers were interested but I don't think we ever got to know what they were willing to part with to get him. A late pick or a goalie who can win you games? Easy call in my mind, especially since we are trying to get Stone and Duchene to stay. They don't want to hear about how the scouts feel about a guy they could get with a late pick, they want a goalie who will help them win.

Is Anderson going to help them win, though? He's almost 38. Unless he turns back the clock and performs like he did in 12/13, he's not going to turn a bad team into a playoff threat next season.
 

L'Aveuglette

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To be fair, without a good goalie this team isn't going anywhere, even if the prospects mostly pan out. Bad goalies can really sink rebuilds.

I do hope that holding on to him is partly due to no very enticing offers being made for him. The Flyers were interested but I don't think we ever got to know what they were willing to part with to get him. A late pick or a goalie who can win you games? Easy call in my mind, especially since we are trying to get Stone and Duchene to stay. They don't want to hear about how the scouts feel about a guy they could get with a late pick, they want a goalie who will help them win.

To be fair, this isn't a rebuild and we already traded the guy that could have helped the prospects most going forward and are about to part ways with either one or two of the only other good, experienced players we have. Why the heck would Dorion draw the line at soon-to-be 38 yr-old Anderson?
 

Crosside

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Aug 1, 2018
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Renaud Lavoie and Louis-Jean at tva sport said if Duchene does not sign, he have really really good offer on the table
 

L'Aveuglette

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Renaud Lavoie and Louis-Jean at tva sport said if Duchene does not sign, he have really really good offer on the table

Unless it's the equivalent or more of what we gave up to acquire Duchene, it's not a really good offer. Dorion isn't getting that for a rental.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
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Is Anderson going to help them win, though? He's almost 38. Unless he turns back the clock and performs like he did in 12/13, he's not going to turn a bad team into a playoff threat next season.

I don't think he makes this team anywhere close to a bubble team but, without him, who's our starter? That's the reason why keeping him might make sense.

To be fair, this isn't a rebuild and we already traded the guy that could have helped the prospects most going forward and are about to part ways with either one or two of the only other good, experienced players we have. Why the heck would Dorion draw the line at soon-to-be 38 yr-old Anderson?

It isn't a traditional rebuild because the goal is not to build to compete but we are effectively going with young players and hoping for the best, having a veteran goalie who has shown the ability to steal games isn't a bad idea. He might draw the line there because Stone and Duchene, to be convinced to stay, have asked that Anderson stay/we don't go with a rookie as a starter.
 

Ice-Tray

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I don't think he makes this team anywhere close to a bubble team but, without him, who's our starter? That's the reason why keeping him might make sense.



It isn't a traditional rebuild because the goal is not to build to compete but we are effectively going with young players and hoping for the best, having a veteran goalie who has shown the ability to steal games isn't a bad idea. He might draw the line there because Stone and Duchene, to be convinced to stay, have asked that Anderson stay/we don't go with a rookie as a starter.

Agreed, plus he can move into a mentor/20 game mode when/if one of our kids shows promise....
 
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