Rumor: Trade Rumors & Proposals Thread | McLeod, You Wanna Get Nuts? Let's Get Nuts!

[Mr Positive]

Neither are the bottom six forwards or the teams' systems, that falls on the coaching staff... also management, for not finding better players who can play a more appropriate style of hockey.

Someone needs to explain to me how we are a serious contender and not a power play sideshow.

We did just lead the league in goals for. We were near the top at 5 on 5 goals for as well and #1 in the west. We need to figure out our defense better and have stability in net. Honestly I think internal changes can fix this. If we do resolve this, we won't just be a contender. We will be the best team in the league.

 

[Broberg Speed]

No they don’t. You’ve made up your mind about how this team is shit in your eyes, that nothing other than your inane ideas are the solution and anyone who says otherwise are just blind fanboys.

Spare us the bullshit of how someone needs to convince you. Team could win a Stanley cup and you’d be whining about how it wasn’t the way you wanted it.

It’s hilarious how you mention this team won Stanley cups but can’t grasp that every year the best player doesn’t end up winning the cup. Shit happens.

Take a look. On the last few pages of this thread alone I predict the Oilers will win the Pacific Division, or at the very least, have a very good chance at winning the Pacific Division.

So you stop the bullshit my man.

We didn't just lead the league in goals for. We were near the top at 5 on 5 goals for as well and #1 in the west. We need to figure out our defense better and have stability in net. Honestly I think internal changes can fix this. If we do resolve this, we won't just be a contender. We will be the best team in the league.

How many Stanley Cups with the two best players in the league?

Maybe this year we'll win... due to continued excellence.

 

[FlameChampion]

Doesnt feel like a retirement speech. I think Hollands been keeping a spot warm for him.

 

[Mr Positive]

Take a look. On the last few pages of this thread alone I predict the Oilers will win the Pacific Division, or at the very least, have a very good chance at winning the Pacific Division.

So you stop the bullshit my man.


How many Stanley Cups with the two best players in the league?

Maybe this year we'll win... due to continued excellence.

You can be a contender and not win a Stanley cup. We currently are a contender.

The fact that we have the two best players in the league doesn't seem relevant here. You win nothing without a good team around them. Holland has built that, and a big point in his favor is the difference in progress between the Oilers now and the teams with Chiarelli, who also had the two best players in the league

 

[Staghorn]

You can be a contender and not win a Stanley cup. We currently are a contender.

The fact that we have the two best players in the league doesn't seem relevant here. You win nothing without a good team around them. Holland has built that, and a big point in his favor is the difference in progress between the Oilers now and the teams with Chiarelli, who also had the two best players in the league

I think Holland has built a great team. Can't have an all star making $8Mil AAV in all 20 positions. Time for the PLAYERS to want it bad enough to make it happen and contribute top to bottom.

 

[GOilers88]

Take a look. On the last few pages of this thread alone I predict the Oilers will win the Pacific Division, or at the very least, have a very good chance at winning the Pacific Division.

So you stop the bullshit my man.


How many Stanley Cups with the two best players in the league?

Maybe this year we'll win... due to continued excellence.

Is there some arbitrary timeline in which the team needs to have won a cup?

The first couple years Holland took over things were pretty damn bleak. It’s been a steady uptick every season though. No reason to think that can’t continue.

 

[Broberg Speed]

You can be a contender and not win a Stanley cup. We currently are a contender.

The fact that we have the two best players in the league doesn't seem relevant here. You win nothing without a good team around them. Holland has built that, and a big point in his favor is the difference in progress between the Oilers now and the teams with Chiarelli, who also had the two best players in the league

There's a proper word for that, it's pretender.

We don't have a good team surrounding McDrai, other than a quality top six, that's the problem.

Is there some arbitrary timeline in which the team needs to have won a cup?

The first couple years Holland took over things were pretty damn bleak. It’s been a steady uptick every season though. No reason to think that can’t continue.

Before McDrai is over. The stupid drafting sure hasn't helped. How could it be as bad as it is?

 

[Anarchism]

I think they want the cup not points

you couldn't understand that was the 'point' of the post?

 

[Anarchism]

I can put a big neon sign out the says "Open for business, everything must go". But if I also price all my goods at far over their market value all I get for my trouble is a big electric bill.

There is a reason why Briere made only one significant trade despite supposedly having everyone and his dog on the block. For example the ask for Scott Laughton was reported to be a 1st++ and supposedly that 1st was not going to be a late first. From the Oilers you would be looking at something like a 1st and Holloway I assume. So the cost would be very high for a guy who in a third line role would probably be a 30-35 point forward on the Oilers since he won't be getting pp time like he did in Philadelphia. No question he would be a great add at 3C but even to fit him in you would have to move Foegele for basically picks and prospects.

The Oilers biggest need is top pairing RHD. Neither Montreal or Winnipeg have such a player that they would be willing to part with. SJ had Karlsson, but once the Ekholm deal was done Karlsson became an almost impossible add.

It seems clear to many of us that the best time for the Oilers to make a bigger move is at the deadline. There should be more options and the main needs will be clearer.

But Noah was available and maybe for a slight overpay.
Seeler was available as well.
Maybe you cant fix what you want but maybe we could have fixed somethings and waited for the deadline for one bigger thing.
If Holland had replaced Desi and broberg and Mcleod and a second with Cates, Kovy and Seeler that would have been an expensive but acceptable decent summer.
OHHH my goodness Fourier it would be an overpayment.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

No they don’t. You’ve made up your mind about how this team is shit in your eyes, that nothing other than your inane ideas are the solution and anyone who says otherwise are just blind fanboys.

Spare us the bullshit of how someone needs to convince you. Team could win a Stanley cup and you’d be whining about how it wasn’t the way you wanted it.

It’s hilarious how you mention this team won Stanley cups but can’t grasp that every year the best player doesn’t end up winning the cup. Shit happens.

Tad this is a terrible strawman and you know it.

And yeah, the best player doesn't always win the Cup. But we're 8 years into this McDavid era and the most we've mustered in the playoffs is 8 wins. This team can win the Stanley Cup but with a roster largely unchanged from last year it can be difficult to see that happening.

Hopefully the team is proactive during the year.

Is there some arbitrary timeline in which the team needs to have won a cup?

The first couple years Holland took over things were pretty damn bleak. It’s been a steady uptick every season though. No reason to think that can’t continue.

If the team doesn't make a deep run this year do you not think McDavid and Draisatl think about greener pastures? Because the instant they do the Oilers are finished.

 

[Mr Positive]

There's a proper word for that, it's pretender.

We don't have a good team surrounding McDrai, other than a quality top six, that's the problem.


Before McDrai is over. The stupid drafting sure hasn't helped.

Look at the year we drafted Puljujarvi. We had McDavid and Draisaitl playing at full ability and still were 4th worst in the league. The difference between that awful team and this one that will likely win the division is not McDavid or Draisaitl. It is the surrounding cast including the bottom six. It is also the improvements in defense and goaltending. There is still room to improve but everyone knows that. Holland is still a very aggressive GM too so I don't see the pressing need to freak out that there are still flaws on the team

 

[bucks_oil]

Your limiting yourself to free agents. I realize Holland has extreme trouble making anything but simple straight forward trades. But even you must admit 3 or 4 teams made it plain as day they were open for business. Philly ...Noah Cates upcoming RFA was available early june and even early July. Could Briere made it any more obvious that deals for prospects and picks were available.
Also Montreal and Winnipeg and San Jose were all open to ideas.
Philly has Morgan Frost, Sean Couturier, Scott Laughton...they very likey dont/didnt want to have a guy like Cates playing 4C. One of these four will end up playing wing.

1) Noah Cates being unsigned and Noah Cates being available are two very different things. Do you have any evidence of the latter? Why is Briere needing to move on from a drafted and developed 24 year old that just excelled in his sophomore season?

2) Again... it may be logical that Philly moves on from one of those C's, but unless you have evidence to the contrary it's just pure speculation on your part.

As a general point, if the standard is "any player in the league might be available and nothing was consummated", that's a pretty broad paddle to be beaten with.

Holland has turned over 18 of 22 roster spots since he joined 4 years ago. Only McD, Drai, Nuge and Nurse remain... literally EVERY other position has been replaced and I'd argue improved, with the exception of 4RD (Larsson).

And I know it doesn't sound like it, but I'm NOT defending him and I don't think he should be done... nor do I expect he is done with this roster... Rome is not built in a day and there are salary cap constraints which would steer you to make some of your improvements AT THE DEADLINE rather than all of them in the summer.

I think it is entirely unreasonable to suggest that he has been inactive, or that the roster at Aug 17th should be or will be the same as the roster on April 30th. It never has been, why would we start now?

 

[McHelpus]

For Toews (if he decides to play) is he qualified for the same kind of bonus structured contract Connor Brown got? That would probably be the only we could get him.

 

[joestevens29]

For Toews (if he decides to play) is he qualified for the same kind of bonus structured contract Connor Brown got? That would probably be the only we could get him.

He technically is available to same type of contract as Brown, but because he's 35+.

Although if he ain't signing for 1mil. Don't really want him. Don't see any need to have cap penalties for next year on a guy like him that is injury prone and trending down fast.

 

[belair]

Makes you laugh to see people claiming he's done nothing. The lengths some will go to make s**t up just to publicly whine is astonishing

The thing that really astonishes me is the fact that they don't see how much 'doing something' would cost in terms of a cap and asset perspective.

Going 'all in' in an off-season based on the needs of the previous year would be uncalculated and would leave the team with very little ability to maneuvre if those preseason gambles didn't manage to pay dividends.

The likeliest scenario where McDavid and Draisaitl leave via free agency would be one of those teams where their preferable GM spent the future and fell short. It's essentially where the Leafs stand a year from now.

 

[CornKicker]

Tad this is a terrible strawman and you know it.

And yeah, the best player doesn't always win the Cup. But we're 8 years into this McDavid era and the most we've mustered in the playoffs is 8 wins. This team can win the Stanley Cup but with a roster largely unchanged from last year it can be difficult to see that happening.

Hopefully the team is proactive during the year.


If the team doesn't make a deep run this year do you not think McDavid and Draisatl think about greener pastures? Because the instant they do the Oilers are finished.

no, because there isnt a single team in the league that could take them both and i think they value trying to do it together,

 

[ManofSteel55]

There's a proper word for that, it's pretender.

We don't have a good team surrounding McDrai, other than a quality top six, that's the problem.


Before McDrai is over. The stupid drafting sure hasn't helped. How could it be as bad as it is?

So every team that is a contender but doesn't win the cup is a pretender? That's...well an opinion.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

the Oilers have won 49 and 50 games the past 2 years...the 2nd best record in the NHL since Woodcroft took over...and the same people are whining about the team isn't good enough LMAO

imagine having this much negativity on your life

 

[ManofSteel55]

For Toews (if he decides to play) is he qualified for the same kind of bonus structured contract Connor Brown got? That would probably be the only we could get him.

For Toews, that might be all he could get anyway, given his health issues and the lack of $$$ that playoff teams have.

the Oilers have won 49 and 50 games the past 2 years...the 2nd best record in the NHL since Woodcroft took over...and the same people are whining about the team isn't good enough LMAO

imagine having this much negativity on your life

Exactly. I mean, are there areas they could improve on? Yeah, of course, I'd like a top 5 goalie and a #1 RD. But the salary cap is a thing, so we can't get everything we want. No team is perfectly built with no holes.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You can be a contender and not win a Stanley cup. We currently are a contender.

The fact that we have the two best players in the league doesn't seem relevant here. You win nothing without a good team around them. Holland has built that, and a big point in his favor is the difference in progress between the Oilers now and the teams with Chiarelli, who also had the two best players in the league

Edmonton is definitely a contender. What they currently are not is a Cup favourite.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

That settles that situation. I hope he get better with what he's been dealing with

 

[bucks_oil]

.He does make the point that Holland isnt much above average as a GM and likely has taken this team as far as he can. Not doing much this summer when this team needs a couple of easier fixes and perhaps one larger one is close to criminal or at least accepting a kings bounty in wages for WHAT?

The first couple years Holland took over things were pretty damn bleak. It’s been a steady uptick every season though. No reason to think that can’t continue.

Look, I'm not advocating we resign Holland... I'm actually very curious/interested to see what Jackson has in store for us.

But to say that Holland has just been average, when evaluating the totality of his work given his starting point is unfair IMO. He's set up the next GM to be 10,000 times more successful than the hand he was dealt (two aces aside, we know that doesn't win you a poker game unless you bluff others out before they get a chance to see the flop).

2019 Edmonton Oilers by ~depth & games played:

Lucic McD Kassian
Chiasson Drai Reider
Khaira Nuge Pulju
Caggiula Brodziak Rattie

Klef Larsson
Nurse Benning
Russel Gravel

Talbot
Koskinen

Do people not remember how bad this roster was? Reider played 67 games predominantly on a line with Draisaitl and scored ZERO goals. Rattie played mostly with McDavid for 50 games and scored 4.

And he inherited approximately $13M tied up in buyout worthy Lucic, Russel and Sekera, and dealt a crushing blow with the early retirement of his #1D

2023 (August)

Lucic is now Kane
Kassian is now Brown
Reider is now Hyman
Chiasson is now Foegele
Khaira is now McLeod
Pulju is now Holloway
Caggiula is now Janmark
Brodziak is now Ryan
Rattie is now Lavoie
Klef is now Ekholm
Benning is now Bouchard
Larsson is now Ceci (and even this has been mixed vs Edmonton's inconsistent version of Larsson)
Russel is now Kulak
Gravel is now Broberg/Desharnais
Talbot is now Skinner
Koskinen is now Campbell (gonna call this a draw for now)

Everything in green is indisputably better, and next year's GM will have only $5M (vs ~13) in dead cap...

 

[McTonyBrar]

Makes you laugh to see people claiming he's done nothing. The lengths some will go to make s**t up just to publicly whine is astonishing

it’s actually fun to not ignore them. Makes for some laughs

 

[Fourier]

But Noah was available and maybe for a slight overpay.
Seeler was available as well.
Maybe you cant fix what you want but maybe we could have fixed somethings and waited for the deadline for one bigger thing.
If Holland had replaced Desi and broberg and Mcleod and a second with Cates, Kovy and Seeler that would have been an expensive but acceptable decent summer.
OHHH my goodness Fourier it would be an overpayment.

I don't really see Cates and Seeler over McLeod and Broberg as worth any real effort and certainly not in a trade where the Oilers are giving up additional assets. I have no idea who you are talking about when you say Kovy.

The Oilers need to improve their right side. They need to do better than adding Seeler. He's a 30 year old left handed defenseman on a two way contract.

 

[Mr Positive]

Look, I'm not advocating we resign Holland... I'm actually very curious/interested to see what Jackson has in store for us.

But to say that Holland has just been average, when evaluating the totality of his work given his starting point is unfair IMO. He's set up the next GM to be 10,000 times more successful than the hand he was dealt (two aces aside, we know that doesn't win you a poker game unless you bluff others out before they get a chance to see the flop).

2019 Edmonton Oilers by ~depth & games played:

Lucic McD Kassian
Chiasson Drai Reider
Khaira Nuge Pulju
Caggiula Brodziak Rattie

Klef Larsson
Nurse Benning
Russel Gravel

Talbot
Koskinen

Do people not remember how bad this roster was? Reider played 67 games predominantly on a line with Draisaitl and scored ZERO goals. Rattie played mostly with McDavid for 50 games and scored 4.

And he inherited approximately $13M tied up in buyout worthy Lucic, Russel and Sekera, and dealt a crushing blow with the early retirement of his #1D

2023 (August)

Lucic is now Kane
Kassian is now Brown
Reider is now Hyman
Chiasson is now Foegele
Khaira is now McLeod
Pulju is now Holloway
Caggiula is now Janmark
Brodziak is now Ryan
Rattie is now Lavoie
Klef is now Ekholm
Benning is now Bouchard
Larsson is now Ceci (and even this has been mixed vs Edmonton's inconsistent version of Larsson)
Russel is now Kulak
Gravel is now Broberg/Desharnais
Talbot is now Skinner
Koskinen is now Campbell (gonna call this a draw for now)

Everything in green is indisputably better, and next year's GM will have only $5M (vs ~13) in dead cap...

Also I'd say our current depth is underrated. It's definitely not top tier but it is playoff worthy. Our bottom six has great veterans and some talented youth mixed in.