Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals/Free Agents 2017-2018 | Part III
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BK201
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2CHAINZ
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And how long have they been a tire fire since they actually started their rebuild ? They were a tire fire for a decade because they were doing pretty much what Dorion is currently doing.
Micklebot
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They undertook a very deliberate rebuild after a decade of trying to hold on.
From ~2005 to 2014 they did things like sign aging vets like Lindros, Allison, O'Neil, Blake, Clarkson and trading massive amounts of futures for guys like Kessel and Phaneuf.
In 2015, they started the process of selling off vets for futures moving Clarkson, Kessel, Phaneuf to clear the way for younger pieces including an outright tank to land Matthews.
They were a tire fire because instead of re-building, they tried to hold on. Now, they have a ton of promise and loads of young core pieces. Perhaps they never win the SC, but their rebuild absolutely was successful. It pains me to say it, but we can only hope that ours goes as smoothly as their's has so far.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
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It's funny how the brainwashed Leafs fans manage to brainwash other non-Leafs fans
Their GM said they would keep all their young forwards and today? Nylander and the Leafs are "far apart"
I can't wait for them to implode again, it is inevitable. They might actually win a playoff series before that happens though
We aren't rebuilding though. This season will likely determine if we go into rebuild mode or not, see if last year was an anomaly or if the previous one was.
Micklebot
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Silly 2CHAINZ, Dorion can't afford to sign expensive UFA like the leafs did, we go dumpster diving while they were buying caviar (only to realize it was past date after they lost the receipt and couldn't return it).
But, if the point is they both were making poor choices and incorrectly evaluating where their team was in terms of competing, then ya, they were doing the same thing...
2CHAINZ
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I should've worded it better. Basically the leafs were stuck in that mediocre middle for so long till they decided to rip it apart and stop patching it. Ottawa has been doing the same since forever. If you're re signing Karlsson then re sign stone and duchene and go in that direction. If you're trading Karlsson trade everyone and start over is more what I was trying to say.
Mingus Dew
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- Oct 7, 2013
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The inferiority complex vis-a-vis the Leafs is alive and well I see.
They are a good team. They are much better than we are. There is a good chance they will win a championship before we do.
Accept it and move on. The little brother thing is a bad look.
They are a good team. They are much better than we are. There is a good chance they will win a championship before we do.
Accept it and move on. The little brother thing is a bad look.
It's funny how the brainwashed Leafs fans manage to brainwash other non-Leafs fans
Their GM said they would keep all their young forwards and today? Nylander and the Leafs are "far apart"
I can't wait for them to implode again, it is inevitable. They might actually win a playoff series before that happens though
Also it took Ottawa a decade to alienate Karlsson, where Toronto managed to do it in two seasons with Matthews (allegedly).
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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It's funny how the brainwashed Leafs fans manage to brainwash other non-Leafs fans
Their GM said they would keep all their young forwards and today? Nylander and the Leafs are "far apart"
I can't wait for them to implode again, it is inevitable. They might actually win a playoff series before that happens though
We aren't rebuilding though. This season will likely determine if we go into rebuild mode or not, see if last year was an anomaly or if the previous one was.
Lots of teams play hardball with RFA, Nylander might hold out (like Subban did for example) but even if they do fail to come to terms, he's still a valuable trading piece, and could be moved for the help on D they need.
As for us not rebuilding, that's really dependant on what happens with Karlsson I suppose, though you can argue that trading Phaneuf, Brassard and Hoffman qualifies on it's own. That's our 3rd Dman in TOI, our #2 center, and our top LW all for lesser pieces or straight up futures.
We're fortunate that we could still get away with rebuilding and keeping our top pieces as they are still in their prime. Starting with a base of Karlsson, Stone, Duchene isn't bad at all, and adding young pieces like Chabot and Tkachuk could put us in a pretty sweet spot if we had more flexibility, but we're really in a bit of a rought spot with Gaborik and Ryan eating up 12 mil while not providing much along with retaining 1.75 on Phaneuf. We're also in a situation where we lack any leverage with Stone, Karlsson, and Duchene all UFA next year. Those three could determine the teams fate and the only thing we can do to protect ourselves is bow to their demands, or trade them by the deadline.
Micklebot
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Idk about that, they certainly have a better chance short term, but the reality is very few teams have a good chance of winning a championship, and in 3-5 years, everything can be completely different.
Mingus Dew
Microphone Assassin
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Definitely true. I just mean that there are decent odds that Toronto wins a cup sometime before we do.
I don’t necessarily think that will happen in the next 3-5 years, but their team is trending up.
Micklebot
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My point is in the next 3-5 years, our team could completly reverse it's fortunes.
Over a 3-5 year period,
TB drafted Hedman, Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, Point, Douin, and Point.
Nashville drafted Ekholm, Jones, Josi,
StL drafted Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, Schwartz, and Parayko
3 to 5 years of drafts can flip a teams fortunes. I don't see much value in predicting beyond 5 years; there's simply too much that can change.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
Yeah, I don't get the reasoning.
After the first 4 years of building from scratch (expansion rules were really not as favorable back then), the Sens have made the playoffs 16 times out of 21 seasons.
The 5 times they missed the playoffs, they had 83, 74, 88, 85 and 67 pts... I mean, 85 and 88 pts (even 83) is pretty close to make the playoffs, a few more wins/bounces and you're in.
They had 2 really poor seasons in 21 years, 2010-11 and 2017-18 and now they are considered a "bad team"? Yes they were pretty bad last year but if there's one thing I have learned in more than 20 years following this team, is they are totally unpredictable.
In the same 21 seasons, the Leafs made the playoffs 9 times (thanks to their 99-03 success BUT haven't won a damn playoffs round in soon 15 years) and had 7 seasons with 82 pts or less.... They are really not my barometer for success.
Sure, they have a promising present but remember that they play with a lot more resources and $$$, and Toronto is also a favorable destination for NHLers. If they can't have more success than the financially always broken little Senators, that'd be really pathetic, and it has been for 15 years now. Same with Montreal, but for even longer (basically since they traded Patrick Roy in 95).
For reference, in the last 21 seasons, the Habs made the playoffs 13 times and had 7 seasons with 82 pts or less.
Even if you only look at the last 10 years (where the Sens struggled the most and missed the playoffs 5 times) since 2008-09 :
Sens : 5 playoffs, won 3 rounds, ECF, 2 seasons with 82 pts or less.
Leafs : 3 playoffs, won 0 round, 5 seasons with 82 pts or less.
Habs : 7 playoffs, won 5 rounds, 2 ECFs, 3 seasons with 82 pts or less.
The Habs with a bit more success, the Leafs with lol
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the Leafs were not stuck in any mediocre middle. they missed the playoffs 10 years out of 11. That's not mediocre middle....that's pure suckage. no our situation is not in anyway comparable to what they went through. or Edmonton. or Carolina. That's sucking.
Micklebot
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I think what he meant was they were perpetually a non-playoff team, but never tanked and got a good pick. In those 11 years, they only finished in the bottom 5 once they started tanking intentionally, and the year after they traded for Kessel.
They missed the playoffs a ton, and given how much they could spend, that's a special kind of sucking, but they were basically a bubble team perpetually on the wrong side of the bubble, where as we've been a bubble team that actually makes the playoffs every second season. Neither is really an enviable position, and as a fan I'd rather be in our place, but I'm not sure how we really got into this topic; somebody pointed out that the leafs have broken out of that cycle and rebuilt nicely, and we're sticking in the same cycle. Who's cycle was worse isn't really the point.
Do Make Say Think
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Agent Zub
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Lol Toronto is going to be one of the best teams in the NHL for the next decade.
Senscore
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BonHoonLayneCornell
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Toronto has proven nothing yet, but they at least have hope of being a contender now and in the near future, we don't and if we lose the big 3, we have no choice but to bottom out tank this shit.
BloodRedArmy
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Ya, so are the Oilers, apparently.
Ray Kinsella
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And, sadly, Ottawa would have the worst group of defence in the NHL if they were to trade Karlsson.
BonHoonLayneCornell
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We might even if we still have him. We're pretty much running only 1 top 4 dman in Karlsson, unless we want to include Ceci attempting to play that role.
Agent Zub
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