Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals/Free Agents 2017-2018 | Part II

[stempniaksen]

Are you kidding? Calling someone else ignorant here is actually unbelievable. Factual outcome. The team finished 2nd last and doesnt have their first next year and still havent extended the player they traded all of this for.

He's not wrong though. The winners/losers of the deal won't be able to be determined until all the moving pieces are set (Duchene signing, finding out where our 1st round pick lands, ect).

I'm not an idiot, and I fully realize what is PROBABLY going to happen (trade Karlsson, slash salary, finish bottom-five, ect). But there's also still a scenario where we can "win" the Duchene trade, imo (however slight that chance still is).

There's still a lot of balls in the air in regards to this trade. Anybody speaking in complete absolutes about this has a chance to end up with egg on their face.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

PD lost his leverage allowing teams to talk long term with Karlsson if you ask me.

PD had no choice, obviously there were talks prior to July 1st, and there was no agreement in place to sign.

EK65 must have indicated he wanted to explore other options AKA trade request, and almost immediately after the opening offer was refused, PD acquiesced to EK65s request to talk to other teams, days later.

Now that EK65 has window-shopped these teams, and has a better idea on what his "fair market value" is, he has so decide whether he wants to give Ottawa a chance to sweeten their offer enough for him to stay, keeping in mind his Wife's strong family ties, and desire to remain in Ottawa.

PD had no other option but to allow EK65 to explore the other side of the fence, and perhaps staying in Ottawa is not as bad as an option as EK65 previously felt, after testing the waters.

I still think the longer it takes to hear anything on this issue, the better chances are that he reconsiders staying in Ottawa.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

So at this time, how would you rate the assets in that trade, not what you believe they will turn into?

For me it goes:

Duchene

Girard
Picks and prospects

Ott 1st
Girard
1 year of Duchene (he moves to 2 if he signs a contract under 8M)
Turris
Bowers
2nd
Kamenev
Ott 3rd

 

[slamigo]

IMHO if Duchene resigns with Ottawa it’s a win.
I wasn’t sold on Turris at 6x6M. That’s just my opinion though.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

This trade will follow Dorion for the rest of his career.

Or Signing EK65 to an extension.

 

[OgieO]

The draft pick will sting, that's the issue with the Duchene trade. Duchene is quite a bit better than Turris. I liked Turris, he is a great player but there is a clear separation between he and Duchene. Bowers is s good prospect but shows nothing at this point to say he won't easily be replaced by other assets in our system. He was redundant. A good prospect, but not a great one. Could be wrong though. Had the rest of the deal been a 2nd or a top 15 protected pick, then I think we win that deal hands down. But the first as it stands right now... could be a disaster.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

He's not wrong though. The winners/losers of the deal won't be able to be determined until all the moving pieces are set (Duchene signing, finding out where our 1st round pick lands, ect).

I'm not an idiot, and I fully realize what is PROBABLY going to happen (trade Karlsson, slash salary, finish bottom-five, ect). But there's also still a scenario where we can "win" the Duchene trade, imo (however slight that chance still is).

There's still a lot of balls in the air in regards to this trade. Anybody speaking in complete absolutes about this has a chance to end up with egg on their face.

Colorado is still a winner in the deal though even things go Ottawa's way. Regardless of whether Duchene signs or they get a top 5 pick, they still got a great return for a player they wanted to ship out.

 

[OgieO]

Good grief, Duchene was the best asset in that trade. We gave too much, but you guys are getting ridiculous.

 

[Upgrayedd]

He's not wrong though. The winners/losers of the deal won't be able to be determined until all the moving pieces are set (Duchene signing, finding out where our 1st round pick lands, ect).

I'm not an idiot, and I fully realize what is PROBABLY going to happen (trade Karlsson, slash salary, finish bottom-five, ect). But there's also still a scenario where we can "win" the Duchene trade, imo (however slight that chance still is).

There's still a lot of balls in the air in regards to this trade. Anybody speaking in complete absolutes about this has a chance to end up with egg on their face.

Agreed, im no idiot and understand things look bleak right now, with a little hope and using some critical thinking in that things change and scenarios like this in the past that looked bleak can quickly change to the positive, I choose to wait and see.... if the worst case scenario comes to fruition then obviously it will be a big loss, but with too many unknowns declaring it one way or another is foolish imo.

At this time I like the deal as I don't assume the worst case and believe MD will re-sign and that he is the best piece in the trade and that we will bounce back reasonably next year, yes even without EK. Again this opinion could change when new facts emerge.

 

[BatherSeason]

It's a real testament to how tight-lipped the team has been recently when we're talking about what rumorbreak, nhlconfidant and eklund have to say.

I really don't think the team is being "tight-lipped", Garrioch is on vacation and the organization seems to have put a gag order on TSN1200. I would assume that as soon as Garrioch returns from his time off, more leaks will come.

The team finished 2nd last and doesnt have their first next year and still havent extended the player they traded all of this for.

They also promised the fanbase that the team would be much better. So far, they have done absolutely nothing to improve the team, the roster has actually gotten worse.

 

[BondraTime]

I disagree with you on a fundamental level about virtually everything you believe here, will see how she goes in a few years and perhaps re-visit sometime.

Honest question, Did you feel we lost all of the last 3-4 trades we made? If no which ones did we do all right in and why?

That's fine, I obviously whole heartedly disagree with your stance as well.

Won the trade at the draft movingly back. Able to grab a mid 2nd for moving back 4 spots.

Lost the Cole deal. A 2020 3rd, self explanatory.

Phaneuf was a win for getting rid of him, and loss for getting a guy like Gaborik back.

Did alright/good in the Brassard trade. Got a 19 year old goalie who fits the timeline this team is on to compete in 4-5 years, addressed an area of need. Got a mid 1st, and Cole was a decent asset.

Lost the Duchene trade. Traded away multiple pieces that would be of use when the team is able to compete in 4-5 years. Our 1st alone carries gigantic value right now, gigantic.

Lost the Burrows trade. Pretty self explanatory.

Wingles trade was fine, though not needed.

Stalberg trade was alright, though not needed.

Lost the Zibanejad trade. Traded the better, younger player + 2nd (Beggren...) for the cheaper, older guy. Pretty self explanatory.

 

[stempniaksen]

Colorado is still a winner in the deal though even things go Ottawa's way. Regardless of whether Duchene signs or they get a top 5 pick, they still got a great return for a player they wanted to ship out.

There can be more than one "winner" though. I mean, you could certainly make an argument that Nashvillle "won" the trade as well, given that they added a 2C without moving anything off their roster (or Tolvanen/Fabbro).

There's even still an argument that Ottawa can be called a winner in all of this too, since they added the best piece in the deal. Obviously the wheels have fallen off since then and it's not looking good, but nothing is set in stone for the Senators doomsday scenario (yet anyways...)

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Speaking of how tight lipped the team is, I wonder if Randy Lee was someone who leaked a lot of info to insiders. Seems like since he's been gone, the news has really dried up.

 

[OgieO]

That's a good point. Things have never been this quiet before, something sure seems to have changed and Lee being gone sure is plausible.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

There can be more than one "winner" though. I mean, you could certainly make an argument that Nashvillle "won" the trade as well, given that they added a 2C without moving anything off their roster (or Tolvanen/Fabbro).

There's even still an argument that Ottawa can be called a winner in all of this too, since they added the best piece in the deal. Obviously the wheels have fallen off since then and it's not looking good, but nothing is set in stone for the Senators doomsday scenario (yet anyways...)

For sure. Everyone can be a winner in a trade. It's just wrong to say Colorado can't be declared a winner. It just remains to be seen whether it's just a great trade or one of the most lopsided deals in modern NHL history for them.

It's not set in stone but the cement is drying. Quickly.

 

[stempniaksen]

Speaking of how tight lipped the team is, I wonder if Randy Lee was someone who leaked a lot of info to insiders. Seems like since he's been gone, the news has really dried up.

I kind of assumed it was because Dorion had drawn his line in the sand (as far as wanting one of Heiskanen/Glass/Sergachev) and that he's just waiting for another team to blink.

It's an interesting theory though (although I don't know why Randy would leak all that stuff given that Melnyk hired a lawyer for him and the organization seemingly has his back).

 

[toxic poster]

I personally dont care whenever you want to do it....for me personally to make a solid statement that i will stand by...i like to have all the facts, i deemed the heatley trade a win as we saw Michalek put up decent seasons for us whilst Heatley sharply declined, maybe not the best example of trade but for that one i was super pissed at the time but a few years later kind of thought it actually worked out well for us.

do you understand what hindsight is? you evaluate a trade when it happens given *known information* and then look back on how it played out after but you really can't wait 6 years to declare a winner after seeing how circumstances independent of the trade play out lmfao

 

[toxic poster]

The draft pick will sting, that's the issue with the Duchene trade. Duchene is quite a bit better than Turris. I liked Turris, he is a great player but there is a clear separation between he and Duchene. Bowers is s good prospect but shows nothing at this point to say he won't easily be replaced by other assets in our system. He was redundant. A good prospect, but not a great one. Could be wrong though. Had the rest of the deal been a 2nd or a top 15 protected pick, then I think we win that deal hands down. But the first as it stands right now... could be a disaster.

personally I think you're underrating bowers here. i think he's going to be an important middle 6 for Colorado in 3 years time.

That's fine, I obviously whole heartedly disagree with your stance as well.

Won the trade at the draft movingly back. Able to grab a mid 2nd for moving back 4 spots.

Lost the Cole deal. A 2020 3rd, self explanatory.

Phaneuf was a win for getting rid of him, and loss for getting a guy like Gaborik back.

Did alright/good in the Brassard trade. Got a 19 year old goalie who fits the timeline this team is on to compete in 4-5 years, addressed an area of need. Got a mid 1st, and Cole was a decent asset.

Lost the Duchene trade. Traded away multiple pieces that would be of use when the team is able to compete in 4-5 years. Our 1st alone carries gigantic value right now, gigantic.

I agree we lost the Duchene trade - but I think your reasoning as to why is wrong here. Dorion traded for Duchene thinking that would put this team over the edge. ECF the year before, upgrading your centre positiong and you're top3 in the atlantic at this point. the underlying numbers weren't there - but they also weren't there all of last season. if our goaltending put up league avg sv% I think we wouldn't be calling this trade as big of a loss as it was. we lost it because we gave up far too much for a high end 2c/low tier 1c - not because he didn't fit our timeline. our timeline was win now it looked like until our goaltending fell off so f***ing hard

 

[BondraTime]

personally I think you're underrating bowers here. i think he's going to be an important middle 6 for Colorado in 3 years time.


I agree we lost the Duchene trade - but I think your reasoning as to why is wrong here. Dorion traded for Duchene thinking that would put this team over the edge. ECF the year before, upgrading your centre positiong and you're top3 in the atlantic at this point. the underlying numbers weren't there - but they also weren't there all of last season. if our goaltending put up league avg sv% I think we wouldn't be calling this trade as big of a loss as it was. we lost it because we gave up far too much for a high end 2c/low tier 1c - not because he didn't fit our timeline. our timeline was win now it looked like until our goaltending fell off so ****ing hard

We had the luckiest route possible in the playoffs while overachieving, we lost our #2 D prior to the season starting. As good as that run to the ECF was, it has played a gigantic part in the over-rating of the team that has it where it is now.

 

[Upgrayedd]

do you understand what hindsight is? you evaluate a trade when it happens given *known information* and then look back on how it played out after but you really can't wait 6 years to declare a winner after seeing how circumstances independent of the trade play out lmfao

Of course I understand what hindsight is, thus why I use it most times to evaluate trades rather than making guesses right from the get go, the way you described is how you personally evaluate a trade and not some sort of magical all encompassing policy for any and all sports fans to follow, I don't immediately declare a winner unless im certain of most elements if not all elements even using an educated guess, again way to many guesses educated or not for me to claim a definitive statement at this time regarding the still evolving Duchene trade, I guess and hope that it will work out well for the Sens.

 

[Benjamin]

We had the luckiest route possible in the playoffs while overachieving, we lost our #2 D prior to the season starting. As good as that run to the ECF was, it has played a gigantic part in the over-rating of the team that has it where it is now.

To be fair to Dorion, we kept on rolling at the start of the season. We were looking like we could be a top 3 team in our division until the Sweden trip.

Duchene was supposed to improve an already good team and the 1st was projected to be in the 20's.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

To be fair to Dorion, we kept on rolling at the start of the season. We were looking like we could be a top 3 team in our division until the Sweden trip.

Duchene was supposed to improve an already good team and the 1st was projected to be in the 20's.

We were losing most games though. We only had a respectable record because of loser points.

 

[Slack]

It was Boucher's stupid unsustainable system that buried us imo. Overachieved one year then totally collapsed the next. And our GM ended up buying into the hype.

 

[topshelf15]

We have been a terrible possession team for years,we only made the PO whenever Andy stood on his head,and EK playing half the game....Far far more is needed from the guys up front...

 

[Liver King]

Duchenes contract and that 2019 1st will determine how we did on that deal

problem is, we have traded Brassard and Dion....and now were gonna trade Karlsson