Trade Returns - Stone/Duchene/Dzingel

[coladin]

I think your on to something here, the customers are idiots you and me included and have barely supported this team for 25 years!

I still feel guilt, as all North Americans should, over Blockbuster closing up shop due to lack of fan support!

He said "some". You can choose to interpret as "all". That is typical of the black/white attitude in here.

 

[foggyvisor]

We traded for Bobby Ryan who was making 5.1 million. It would have cost 400k to sign Alfie to that instead of trading for Ryan

The official Melnyk defender reasoning behind this?

"Alfie didnt negotiate and get back to the Sens"

You know, the same excuse for Karlsson, Duchene and Stone.

Players just don't want to play for the Senators for their own personal reasons.

 

[coladin]

The official Melnyk defender reasoning behind this?

"Alfie didnt negotiate and get back to the Sens"

You know, the same excuse for Karlsson, Duchene and Stone.

Players just don't want to play for the Senators for their own personal reasons.

Bryan Murray was the one who balked at Alfie's offer. It was Melnyk who said give him a blank cheque. Alfie already felt jilted and left. Murray said over and over and over that if Alfie would have called him back he would have had what he wanted. But he didn't. I spoke with Bryan, and he told me in a very indirect but crystal clear manner that he wasn't going to pay what Alfie wanted at his age. It was a bad hockey decision. which is why Murray stalled. It was a poor organizational decision, which is why Melnyk stepped in.

 

[Chabot84]

....if we can afford bad contracts, we can afford to re-sign Stone and/or Duchene.

And why surround the kids with a bunch of overpaid under performers? Is that the kind of leadership we want the kids to learn from?

Exactly.. that's how I took it. If we aren't signing those guys (but they are willing) then why cant we take cap dumps in their place to boost their values. Of course make sure these dumps expire by our spending window of 2021-22

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don't think a 40 year old Alfredson moving to a different team is responsible for 1000's of fans a game. It was sad to see Alfy move on but he took $5.5 US from Detroit and I'm not sure where we would have cut that from our budget in 2013.

The guy we invented a chant for decided he had had enough of Ottawa despite Ottawa absolutely crushing the heavily favoured Habs in the playoffs.

That sent shockwaves throughtout the fanbase and it coincided with attendance starting to trend down. Claiming that "1000's of people did not stop buying tickets because Alfie left" is missing the forest for the trees.

 

[swiftwin]

The guy we invented a chant for decided he had had enough of Ottawa despite Ottawa absolutely crushing the heavily favoured Habs in the playoffs.

That sent shockwaves throughtout the fanbase and it coincided with attendance starting to trend down. Claiming that "1000's of people did not stop buying tickets because Alfie left" is missing the forest for the trees.

Exactly. He went from a team that made it to the 2nd round to another team that made it to the 2nd round.

At first everyone blamed Murray. But we found out later it was really all Melnyk's doing.

 

[swiftwin]

We couldn’t sell out ECF games with EK on the team. I’m not a EM fan but the fans have to take some responsibility. Blame a small corporate fan base, government ticket policies or what ever ... But Joe Fan wasn’t dropping their own money on prime games.

Why would Joe Fan drop money on the Sens if Melnyk refuses to do the same? They made the ECF on a shoestring budget... Melnyk reaped the benefits of millions in extra revenue from that playoff run, and immediately ran Karlsson out of town 6 months later. f*** him. They've been cutting corners since they ran Alfie out of town.

 

[R2010]

Bryan Murray was the one who balked at Alfie's offer. It was Melnyk who said give him a blank cheque. Alfie already felt jilted and left. Murray said over and over and over that if Alfie would have called him back he would have had what he wanted. But he didn't. I spoke with Bryan, and he told me in a very indirect but crystal clear manner that he wasn't going to pay what Alfie wanted at his age. It was a bad hockey decision. which is why Murray stalled. It was a poor organizational decision, which is why Melnyk stepped in.

Denial is quite something to behold

 

[Upgrayedd]

He said "some". You can choose to interpret as "all". That is typical of the black/white attitude in here.

As a businessman and marketing professional, I will not accept today nor ever accept the very clearly wrong claim that the customer or consumer is ever to blame for the failure of a product.

 

[coladin]

Denial is quite something to behold

I guess you had to be there

 

[coladin]

As a businessman and marketing professional, I will not accept today nor ever accept the very clearly wrong claim that the customer or consumer is ever to blame for the failure of a product.

All i did was correct you. You exaggerated what someone said.

 

[Upgrayedd]

All i did was correct you. You exaggerated what someone said.

But you didn't correct me or really add anything at all here, I think you are confused as implying even a single customer is to blame for a failure of a product is flat wrong.

Straight up, do you believe even a single customer holds a responsibility for the success of a product in a capitalist market?

 

[Clayonator]

Not gonna try polishing a turd, but I was watching clips of Mason Appleton and he is really slick. Like a big Ales Hemsky. Playing 8 minutes a game on the jets 4th line but could be a solid producer if given the opportunity.

 

[HSF]

With the great EK and a deep playoff run this team had problems selling tickets. Thats the greatest chef in the world serving up plate after plate of yummy. I think the market itself has some issues. To act like it's a market that can throw around money is just nonsense
To run with the big boys ticket prices would have to be jacked up and then noone would show. On top of that they are trying to pay these guys but they don't want to stick out a rebuild. I don't blame them but I also think this team needs a real rebuild.

The sens have had really good attendance numbers for the market it is

You don't see the bigger issue that the organization hasn't seen till maybe recently . Why are fans not showing up anymore ? Until the organization sees this and figures out their product to fit the fans then Melnyk is gonna lose money

 

[slamigo]

Well, ignoring the fact that Gordon Ramsay is so famous that he opens his own restaurants at this stage in his career...

Ramsay-caliber chefs would only agree to work in restaurants where the ownership:
- has a solid business plan,
- has a proven track record,
- is willing to support that chef with a competent compliment of kitchen staff

... and so forth, etc...

That's it. We need a NHL Head Office Nightmares reality tv show.
Have an experienced former NHL GM show up with cameras and berate the staff/owner à la Gordon Ramsey. I would pay bunches of money to watch the Ottawa Senators episode.

 

[RaMai]

It was a poor organizational decision, which is why Melnyk stepped in.

You are hilarious dude, Ottawas Mister Hockey Eugene Melnyk stepped in to save the franchise from evil Brian Murray.

 

[BatherSeason]

So a bunch of pouty, poor me, lets treat 99% of the players like worthless sucky garbage fans has zero effect on these guys and their work environment? Im sure it help push em out the door.

More thread derailment, isn't this where we should be talking about the "Trade Returns - Stone/Duchene/Dzingel" . AllI see are posts and posts of the same garbage. Did the new memo from Euge discuss bringing the playoff attendance from 2 years ago back into the fold?

 

[OUTHOUSE]

Aside from these 3, who else do you see getting traded?

 

[The Lewler]

You are hilarious dude, Ottawas Mister Hockey Eugene Melnyk stepped in to save the franchise from evil Brian Murray.

I don't think he's saying that.

He's saying Murray said this isn't a good hockey move based on age / comparables etc. (Probably had been given budget directions by Melnyk on this front).

Then the blowback starts and the franchise is about to lose it's beloved icon, and Melnyk goes.. yikes this is gonna be real bad for business, and tells Murray to pay him whatever he wants. It's then alleged that Alfie never came back to the table. Which... honestly seems a tad dubious, but whatever.

Meaning the right hockey decision may have been bad for the organisations image and business, so Melnyk decided to override/reverse positions for not purely "hockey" reasons.

It wasn't that he stepped in to 'save' the franchise from BMurr, it was that he stepped in for his own business reasons.

ANYWAY, trying to not derail this.

I'm basically of the opinion that this has happened or has been happening again, that Melnyk may have moved of his original positions to get them to sign, but Stone/Duchene have their mind made up for hockey reasons.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Not gonna try polishing a turd, but I was watching clips of Mason Appleton and he is really slick. Like a big Ales Hemsky. Playing 8 minutes a game on the jets 4th line but could be a solid producer if given the opportunity.

He seems like the type of player Dorion may be targeting. A young, big, cost controlled RW that has some upside.
1st + Perrault + Appleton + Niku.
Just a guess.

 

[Answer]

Alfie situation was no one's fault, so to speak. Certainly not Murray's or even Melnyk, to a certain degree.

Alfie knew his career is coming to an end, and he wanted to win a CUP, which was not going to happen in Ottawa, given the fact that the clock was clicking on him. Hence, he chose to go else where and try to win a Cup.

Now, you can blame this on management and the Owner, if anyone so chooses to, in failing to put a Cup contending team, where Alfie wouldn't had to utter his infamous quote "Probably, not"

 

[RaMai]

I don't think he's saying that.

He's saying Murray said this isn't a good hockey move based on age / comparables etc. (Probably had been given budget directions by Melnyk on this front).

Then the blowback starts and the franchise is about to lose it's beloved icon, and Melnyk goes.. yikes this is gonna be real bad for business, and tells Murray to pay him whatever he wants. It's then alleged that Alfie never came back to the table. Which... honestly seems a tad dubious, but whatever.

Meaning the right hockey decision may have been bad for the organisations image and business, so Melnyk decided to override/reverse positions for not purely "hockey" reasons.

It wasn't that he stepped in to 'save' the franchise from BMurr, it was that he stepped in for his own business reasons.

ANYWAY, trying to not derail this.

I'm basically of the opinion that this has happened or has been happening again, that Melnyk may have moved of his original positions to get them to sign, but Stone/Duchene have their mind made up for hockey reasons.

I'm absolutely with you on this and would sign your post word for word. That's why I quoted what he posted, EM is the single reason of what's happening for years by his meddling and putting people like PD in positions to fail.
I agree he recognized that the Alfie thing is bigger as his ego, but Alfie left because of EM's behavior before. Be it hometown discounts he took only to see EM not spending or be it to insult him through BM on the initial contract offer. The source of all this bs is Eugene Melnyk - it has to be known and the spinners have to be called out.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

Alfie situation was no one's fault, so to speak. Certainly not Murray's or even Melnyk, to a certain degree.

Alfie knew his career is coming to an end, and he wanted to win a CUP, which was not going to happen in Ottawa, given the fact that the clock was clicking on him. Hence, he chose to go else where and try to win a Cup.

Now, you can blame this on management and the Owner, if anyone so chooses to, in failing to put a Cup contending team, where Alfie wouldn't had to utter his infamous quote "Probably, not"

When Alfie went to Detroit we were arguably a better team than them, at the very least we were just as good. He left for more reasons than wanting to win a cup. Not to mention the Melnyk email rumours and our refusal to make up for his prior season when he earned only 1 mill.

 

[GrantLemons]

Then the blowback starts and the franchise is about to lose it's beloved icon, and Melnyk goes.. yikes this is gonna be real bad for business, and tells Murray to pay him whatever he wants. It's then alleged that Alfie never came back to the table. Which... honestly seems a tad dubious, but whatever.

Not dubious at all. It's likely that by the time the Sens went blank cheque mode, Alfie was allowed to talk to teams, and clearly was talking to a few of his Swedish buddies in Detroit and got pretty excited about going and playing with them. Keeping in mind he had never experienced playing on another NHL team.

Clearly whatever happened between he and Melnyk (I remember there being rumours about emails/words exchanged etc.) soured him, and in one fell swoop he was able to go play with his buds in Detroit and give Melnyk a giant middle finger.

I would've done the same if I were him.

 

[supsens]

If the team is a top team the fans come out. If it isn’t they don’t. Welcome to pro sports. That isn’t blaming anyone, if the market was 3x the size it wouldn’t be an issue. Like I said it’s not a “blame” the consumer, it just is. Without the fans there isn’t money to go around. It is fairly normal and why the worst teams draft first, it’s an issue as old as sports.
I am not sure why the concept is so hard to follow, the team can’t be first every year forever, sooner or later it happens to every team that isn’t a huge market.