Trade Proposals and Free Agency Thread - 2017 Edition Pt. III

[SprDaVE]

Anything to seperate the Zaitsev and Gardiner pairing would very likely help us out. They just don't seem to be working well together. Zaitsev had the same issue with Rielly and they struggled badly.

I like Zaitsevs skillset but he seems unaware that he's a great skater and that he's allowed to skate with the puck in order to create zone exits. I don't know how many times he just literally gave the puck away shooting the puck off the boards instead of skating and/or making a controlled break out.

I have no idea how they can fix that but I just don't see how you can do it internally. There's no big rush to get that defenseman I guess but if they keep playing really bad going into January, it is something that has to be rectified at some point.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Anything to seperate the Zaitsev and Gardiner pairing would very likely help us out. They just don't seem to be working well together. Zaitsev had the same issue with Rielly and they struggled badly.

I like Zaitsevs skillset but he seems unaware that he's a great skater and that he's allowed to skate with the puck in order to create zone exits. I don't know how many times he just literally gave the puck away trying to shoot the puck off the boards instead of skating and/or making a break out.

I have no idea how they can fix that but I just don't see how you can do it internally. There's no big rush to get that defenseman I guess but if they keep playing really bad going into January, it is something that has to be rectified at some point.

Won't be fixed without adding someone who can slot up in the lineup (because Polak, you know...). Seems like the market is starting to open up though. Recently, some smoke around guys like Jack Johnson, Justin Braun, Ryan McDonaugh, and now with Rutherford saying he may shake things up... Letang maybe?

 

[TML Dynasty]

IMO Gardiner needs to be paired up with two other d to cover his mental lapses. 2 fwd, 3 d, 1 g? I’d be very interested in trading him. His flashes of brilliance aren’t enough to overshadow his giveaways.

 

[Morgs]

IMO Gardiner needs to be paired up with two other d to cover his mental lapses. 2 fwd, 3 d, 1 g? I’d be very interested in trading him. His flashes of brilliance aren’t enough to overshadow his giveaways.

Do people really still believe this? Lmao.

 

[SprDaVE]

IMO Gardiner needs to be paired up with two other d to cover his mental lapses. 2 fwd, 3 d, 1 g? I’d be very interested in trading him. His flashes of brilliance aren’t enough to overshadow his giveaways.

Do people really still believe this? Lmao.

He's had a tough stretch lately. I've defended him plenty over the years but he's had a bad season overall so far. I hate saying this but I'm not sure playing with Zaitsev is doing him any favors but I also think Gardiner can play so much better.

With that said, trading him would just create a massive hole we can't replace. We should be adding to this core, not just going sideways. The one thing that """could""" work is if you could package Gardiner with picks and prospects for someone like OEL hypothetically, but of course that's very unlikely for a lot of reasons.

 

[Morgs]

He's had a tough stretch lately. I've defended him plenty over the years but he's had a bad season overall so far. I hate saying this but I'm not sure playing with Zaitsev is doing him any favors but I also think Gardiner can play so much better.

With that said, trading him would just create a massive hole we can't replace. We should be adding to this core, not just going sideways. The one thing that """could""" work is if you could package Gardiner with picks and prospects for someone like OEL hypothetically, but of course that's very unlikely for a lot of reasons.

I think it's Zaitsev too. Zaitsev has proven to be our 2nd best offensive defenseman (after Rielly), but his defense might actually be the worst after Polak. He's done something that even Dion Phaneuf couldn't do.... ruin Gardiners' corsi.

I think we should be trading Zaitsev before this contract gets real bad in a few years.

 

[Trapper]

He's had a tough stretch lately. I've defended him plenty over the years but he's had a bad season overall so far. I hate saying this but I'm not sure playing with Zaitsev is doing him any favors but I also think Gardiner can play so much better.

With that said, trading him would just create a massive hole we can't replace. We should be adding to this core, not just going sideways. The one thing that """could""" work is if you could package Gardiner with picks and prospects for someone like OEL hypothetically, but of course that's very unlikely for a lot of reasons.

Gardiner and his next contract will have to be addressed at some point.
If we got a legit top 4 RHD, I would move Gardiner for a solid 2/3 C if possible.
As it stands our left side D is consisting of:
Rielly, Gardiner, Hainsey (is left), Dermott, Borgman, Rosen. That's an area of strength.
Borgman is solid as the 3rd pair. It will depend on how Dermott progresses.
The right side is lacking. Zaitsev is hot and cold, Lily is just a kid and Carrick can't crack the lineup over Polak. This side needs to be addressed.

 

[TML Dynasty]

Do people really still believe this? Lmao.

Haha yep, but all your persuasive points have swayed me!

Agree for sure that Zaitsev isn’t doing him favours as SprDaVE mentioned but he stresses me out most games. I get so frustrated with him. Can’t just dump him due to the hole it creates but trading him packaged with prospects/picks/ufas for another 2nd pairing LHD and I’d be stoked!

 

[SprDaVE]

Gardiner and his next contract will have to be addressed at some point.
If we got a legit top 4 RHD, I would move Gardiner for a solid 2/3 C if possible.
As it stands our left side D is consisting of:
Rielly, Gardiner, Hainsey (is left), Dermott, Borgman, Rosen. That's an area of strength.
Borgman is solid as the 3rd pair. It will depend on how Dermott progresses.
The right side is lacking. Zaitsev is hot and cold, Lily is just a kid and Carrick can't crack the lineup over Polak. This side needs to be addressed.

I love Dermott but sometimes players don't quite develop like we hope for a lot of different reasons. Until someone shows quality, it's not quite an area of strength if you know what I mean. Rosen is not doing overly well on the Marlies and Borgman is also hot/cold but I like his skillset and flashes.

I prefer our center depth over any defensive depth we have. I don't see how you can move Gardiner for a center at all... it would just be a blackhole on defence if he's not there.

 

[Morgs]

Haha yep, but all your persuasive points have swayed me!

Agree for sure that Zaitsev isn’t doing him favours as SprDaVE mentioned but he stresses me out most games. I get so frustrated with him. Can’t just dump him due to the hole it creates but trading him packaged with prospects/picks/ufas and I’d be stoked!

We have to remember that his giveaways are mostly due to a few things:
1. The leafs leaving the zone early and it gives him a lack of options to get the puck out (good players will look to any option before putting it off the glass and giving up possession). This wasn't the case at the end of last season, and the beginning of this season.
2. He always has the puck on his stick, and while people notice the one or two glaring giveaways in a game, he also makes about 10-15 plays a game that most defenseman wouldn't be able to make.
3. Zaitsev is very very bad in transition, and usually is forced to not only defer to Gardiner (or put the puck off the glass), but he also puts Gardiner in a bad position often.

In regards to Zaitsev, it's looking more and more likely that this guy is fantastic on the PK, very good defensively in one-on-one, breaking up plays, etc, but after Polak might be our worst transition defenseman and it's constantly costing us. I think he should be relegated to a sheltered offensive zone 5v5 play, top-PK, and 2nd PP.

 

[Trapper]

I love Dermott but sometimes players don't quite develop like we hope for a lot of different reasons. Until someone shows quality, it's not quite an area of strength if you know what I mean. Rosen is not doing overly well on the Marlies and Borgman is also hot/cold but I like his skillset and flashes.

I prefer our center depth over any defensive depth we have. I don't see how you can move Gardiner for a center at all... it would just be a desert on defence if he's not there.

Again it depends on the salary Gardiner is looking for. It also depends if JVR is re-signed and/or what other moves are made in the Summer.
As for the left side:
Rielly
Hainsey
Borgman
While you are waiting for Dermott. Add a legit top 4 RHD in there and you are fine.
I'm not crazy about our center depth if Nylander stays at wing.
You have Matthews/Kadri. As much as I like Marleau, he will be 39, and I'd rather play him where he is more comfortable. If Matthews is hurt it gets pretty thin. Another solid C is a priority to me.

 

[SprDaVE]

Again it depends on the salary Gardiner is looking for. It also depends if JVR is re-signed and/or what other moves are made in the Summer.
As for the left side:
Rielly
Hainsey
Borgman
While you are waiting for Dermott. Add a legit top 4 RHD in there and you are fine.
I'm not crazy about our center depth if Nylander stays at wing.
You have Matthews/Kadri. As much as I like Marleau, he will be 39, and I'd rather play him where he is more comfortable. If Matthews is hurt it gets pretty thin. Another solid C is a priority to me.

The kind of center to have behind Matthews and Kadri doesn't need to be super expensive though. With Aaltonen and Gauthier coming up, I think we just need to trade for an average defensive center and you're doing well. Overall it's not great but better than our defensive depth. Knowing that Marleau and Nylander can play center if injuries pile up is just a bonus.

Hainsey is a LHD that plays better on the right. He's like Brodie from Calgary. I'm not sure he'll play on the left very often during his time here.

Keeping Gardiner until next year would probably be the best route to take and let him walk in 2019 if his demands are too high... similar to JVR and Bozak.

 

[Trapper]

The kind of center to have behind Matthews and Kadri doesn't need to be super expensive though. With Aaltonen and Gauthier coming up, I think we just need to trade for an average defensive center and you're doing well. Overall it's not great but better than our defensive depth. Knowing that Marleau and Nylander can play center if injuries pile up is just a bonus.

Hainsey is a LHD that plays better on the right. He's like Brodie from Calgary. I'm not sure he'll play on the left very often during his time here.

Keeping Gardiner until next year would probably be the best route to take and let him walk in 2019... similar to JVR and Bozak.

I haven't bashed management but I appreciate the job they have done but letting a top 6 forward and top 4 D walk for nothing is foolish IMO. Very foolish. Especially when there is a big drop in the organization between Marner to Brown to Marlies forwards and centers. This would be one area I wouldn't appreciate.

 

[SprDaVE]

I haven't bashed management but I appreciate the job they have done but letting a top 6 forward and top 4 D walk for nothing is foolish IMO. Very foolish. Especially when there is a big drop in the organization between Marner to Brown to Marlies forwards and centers. This would be one area I wouldn't appreciate.

Agreed very much but they don't seem worried about it. I've been crying about it since the off-season that not moving at least one of the pending UFAs would be awful asset management. If they allow that to happen now, I don't see how next year will be any different.

 

[ToneDog]

Agreed very much but they don't see worried about it. I've been crying about it since the off-season that not moving at least one of the pending players would be awful asset management. If they allow that to happen now, I don't see how next year will be any different.

You can always use the money it would take to sign JVR to sign another UFA (Nash, Neal off the top of my head). JVR as I predicted is now playing hungry for his next contract, but I think he plays more relaxed after he signs his next contract. This is why I prefer to sign an unrestricted Tavares (if the opportunity arises). Sure he will cost more but JT's is a C is more consistent.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Do people really still believe this? Lmao.

I mean.... do you not at least see the giveaways? I don't think it's a question of belief when he's 6th OA in the league in giveaways. He had a good game recently where he played much better than he has, but his YTD season still has left a lot to be desired in terms of puck management. Between Gardiner and Zaitsev, they have made very poor puck decisions. Gards used to be top-5 in league giveaways, now he's 6th. Zaitsev was top-10, now he's 11th OA. Ron Hainsey's not amazing with the puck either.

You can always use the money it would take to sign JVR to sign another UFA (Nash, Neal off the top of my head). JVR as I predicted is now playing hungry for his next contract, but I think he plays more relaxed after he signs his next contract. This is why I prefer to sign an unrestricted Tavares (if the opportunity arises). Sure he will cost more but JT's is a C is more consistent.

Tavares = Stamkos thing all over to me. I do believe we should stay away from a JVR extension though.

 

[Morgs]

I mean.... do you not at least see the giveaways? I don't think it's a question of belief when he's 6th OA in the league in giveaways. He had a good game recently where he played much better than he has, but his YTD season still has left a lot to be desired in terms of puck management. Between Gardiner and Zaitsev, they have made very poor puck decisions. Gards used to be top-5 in league giveaways, now he's 6th. Zaitsev was top-10, now he's 11th OA. Ron Hainsey's not amazing with the puck either.

Scroll up to my last post. His problem stems from Babcocks system, his bad partner, and the forwards (imo).

 

[The CyNick]

You can always use the money it would take to sign JVR to sign another UFA (Nash, Neal off the top of my head). JVR as I predicted is now playing hungry for his next contract, but I think he plays more relaxed after he signs his next contract. This is why I prefer to sign an unrestricted Tavares (if the opportunity arises). Sure he will cost more but JT's is a C is more consistent.

Difference between JVR money and Nash money likely won't be huge.

Obviously if you can sign Tavares, you choose him over anytime available.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Scroll up to my last post. His problem stems from Babcocks system, his bad partner, and the forwards (imo).

Read it... I just can't agree with you. What I see from watching him is that he often declines the easy pass and looks for the harder one. This pushes his fail rate up considerably. The other thing I notice is that he does these incredibly boneheaded short plays with the puck that turn it over down low in our own zone very often. I swear I've facepalmed because of Gardiner at least 2-3 times a game this year. I don't give him as much of a pass as you due to Babcocks' system just because I don't think he allows himself to make the easy pass, for better or worse. Often worse this year. Yes its magical when it works, but the success rate is low and its too costly. He's not making 10-15 plays a game that most other D couldn't. More like they wouldn't. Just my opinion of course.

Fair points on Zaitsev though, and I agree with them.

 

[Morgs]

Read it... I just can't agree with you. What I see from watching him is that he often declines the easy pass and looks for the harder one. This pushes his fail rate up considerably. The other thing I notice is that he does these incredibly boneheaded short plays with the puck that turn it over down low in our own zone very often. I swear I've facepalmed because of Gardiner at least 2-3 times a game this year. I don't give him as much of a pass as you due to Babcocks' system just because I don't think he allows himself to make the easy pass, for better or worse. Often worse this year. Yes its magical when it works, but the success rate is low and its too costly. He's not making 10-15 plays a game that most other D couldn't. More like they wouldn't. Just my opinion of course.

Fair points on Zaitsev though, and I agree with them.

Tonight when you watch the game, instead of watching Gardiner with the puck, watch his surroundings. The "easy" play you refer to is normally the D to D pass. With a defenseman like Rielly beside him it's a great option. When it's Z? Not so much.

He's forced to either skate it out himself (which very few D can do, don't kid yourself), or make a stretch pass because the forwards have been vacating the zone as fast as when Randy was coaching. It's no shock Gardiner is back up to his "old tricks" when he needs to rely on other players to be in position.

 

[Mugzy97]

would getting braun be a upgrade on zaitsev? because if getting braun would strengthen our top4, Zaitsev as the 3rd pair RHD is very solid and strengthen that too.
Rielly-Hainesy
Gardiner-Braun
Borgman-Zaitsev

if of course braun would be considered an upgrade on zaitsev, i know very little about braun

I really like this idea, especially getting Braun for spare parts.

Dermott could replace Gardiner in a coupler of years and Liljegren replace Hainsey.

Rielly-Braun
Dermott - Zaitsev
Borgman - Liljegren

 

[ShaneFalco]

I can't see the Leafs making any noise in the playoffs without adding some depth on D
And by depth, I don't mean a Polak

 

[dubplatepressure]

Tonight when you watch the game, instead of watching Gardiner with the puck, watch his surroundings. The "easy" play you refer to is normally the D to D pass. With a defenseman like Rielly beside him it's a great option. When it's Z? Not so much.

He's forced to either skate it out himself (which very few D can do, don't kid yourself), or make a stretch pass because the forwards have been vacating the zone as fast as when Randy was coaching. It's no shock Gardiner is back up to his "old tricks" when he needs to rely on other players to be in position.

If the correct play is the D to D pass, then that's the play he should be making. I'm sure the coaches are telling him the same thing. Let them deal with Zaitsev's shortcomings directly. But I will absolutely pay attention to this tonight.

 

[Legion34]

I wonder about the odds of getting a backlund? He could be a fantastic addition, let Kadri be the No 2 C and then Backlund could be the shutdown C. Let Kadri loose.... We would have 3 defensively responsible C.

Hyman (2.25) Matthews (10.5) Marner (6)
Jvr (5.5) Kadri (4.5) Nylander (6)
Marleau (6.2) Backlund (5.5) Brown (2.1)
Martin (2.5) Gauthier (1) Kapanen (1)

Rielly (5) XXXX
XXXXX Zaitsev (4.5)
Borgman (1.5) Dermott (1)

Goalies and Kessel for 7.... Thats only 72.5. in 2 years that would leave 10 million for 2 defensemen and spare parts.

 

[Menzinger]

I wonder about the odds of getting a backlund? He could be a fantastic addition, let Kadri be the No 2 C and then Backlund could be the shutdown C. Let Kadri loose.... We would have 3 defensively responsible C.

Hyman (2.25) Matthews (10.5) Marner (6)
Jvr (5.5) Kadri (4.5) Nylander (6)
Marleau (6.2) Backlund (5.5) Brown (2.1)
Martin (2.5) Gauthier (1) Kapanen (1)

Rielly (5) XXXX
XXXXX Zaitsev (4.5)
Borgman (1.5) Dermott (1)

Goalies and Kessel for 7.... Thats only 72.5. in 2 years that would leave 10 million for 2 defensemen and spare parts.

Depending on how they view internal options for centre next season, Backlund could certainly be an interesting option. The price would have to be right though - ie in the range of 5-5.5 mil over 5 years or so