Trade Proposals and Free Agency Thread - 2017 Edition Pt. III

[Walshy7]

I'm still not worried about Nylander. I don't like his treatment, and I don't quite like his response to that treatment, but I'm not worried. I'd bet that within a month, Nylander is back on the top line looking more like himself, and producing accordingly.

The only difference from last year is that Nylander then showed a determination that hasn't quite been there this year. Getting a wake up call was what spurred him to become one of our most consistent players. This year it's made him doubt himself.

the problem is last year Nylander didn't know every time he hits a bit of a slump he get jolted around the lineup. I think the leash is far too short with Nylander and far too long with others, kid was playing well then the whole line slumps Matthews and hyman included and he heads for the 4th line then while Matthews and hyman + brown are struggling he doesn't get to go back. Babcock is beating the talent out of him he hasn't got the confidence to make plays. An example Marner tries behind the back blind passes quite a bit with a success rate of about 20% Nylander wouldn't dare try a play like that as often because it will get him a one way trip to the 4th line. Also sitting him in the last 5 mins of a game while playing Bozak, JVR and marner still is mind boggling sit all 4 defensive liabilities or none

 

[ShaneFalco]

Sometimes being tough on a young player can back-fire. Especially when there are a few others in the lineup who can disappear for stretches and there's nothing done about it

 

[WTFMAN99]

Trading Nylander would be a mistake.

Sometimes being tough on a young player can back-fire. Especially when there are a few others in the lineup who can disappear for stretches and there's nothing done about it

It's definitely a waste playing him on the 4th line, I don't think there is fair treatment going on. That would frustrate me.

 

[Sonny21]

1. Do you guys ever think Nylander and Babcock will function together?

2. If the answer is no, is a deal between CAR-TOR for Hanifin and Nylander as the main pieces something you guys would be okay with?

Zero chance I'd trade Nylander for Hanifin. I like Hanifin (I wanted Leafs to draft him even), but his vastly overrated on HFB.

His getting 3rd pairing sheltered minutes with close to 65% offensive zone deployment. His doing very well in that role, but if Leafs were ever to trade Marner/Nylander, we better get PROVEN top end young D.

Which means, I'd want Slavin from Carolina, even if we add a tiny bit. You may say well his not getting traded, sure, but makes no sense to trade proven Nylander for 3rd pairing sheltered D either, despite the potential.

 

[Barilko14]

He's off the 4th line, not sure why everyone is still complaining about it.

Brown has been there for a good chunk of time, do people think him and Babs are clashing when he's there?

 

[Kiwi]

He's off the 4th line, not sure why everyone is still complaining about it.

Brown has been there for a good chunk of time, do people think him and Babs are clashing when he's there?

I'm not sure if it's play effort or unwillingness to do what the coaching staff asks but Nylander has been in the dog box for a fair bit of time lately and stayed there even though the Matthews line wasn't exactly setting the world on fire with Brown

Nylander's been promoted because of injury so that's not exactly a sign things are turning around either

Brown is a glorified grinder, him being on the 4th line isn't the same thing as a pure skill guy like Nylander

 

[LeafChief]

Lets get it on.

 

[613Leafer]

I'd trade Marner before trading Nylander. For the criticism's Nylander gets defensively, and lack of trust Babcock has via the yo-yoing in the lineup he gets, i definitely seem to notice him winning puck battles in the corners, picking the pocket of the opposing team, etc quite a bit. He also seems to have the better raw skills (e.g. shot, ability to carry it through the neutral zone, etc), though maybe slightly worse vision than Marner.

Maybe I'm biased though, have a soft spot for him because he was the first of our Shanahan era draft picks that started giving hope to the franchise, I went to a bunch of his games on the Marlies, etc.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He's off the 4th line, not sure why everyone is still complaining about it.

Brown has been there for a good chunk of time, do people think him and Babs are clashing when he's there?

But babs even jokes about when Brown is on there - that he's being screwed basically. And finds ways to give him more ice-time and such.
I just think enough is enough. Put him back in play and if he dogs it, then go the tough love route

 

[ShaneFalco]

Lets get it on.

 

[Duke16]

Would anyone do Leivo for Dano? Both players are in similar situations, but Dano is a center.

 

[Barilko14]

I'm not sure if it's play effort or unwillingness to do what the coaching staff asks but Nylander has been in the dog box for a fair bit of time lately and stayed there even though the Matthews line wasn't exactly setting the world on fire with Brown

Nylander's been promoted because of injury so that's not exactly a sign things are turning around either

Brown is a glorified grinder, him being on the 4th line isn't the same thing as a pure skill guy like Nylander

IMO Nylander stayed on the 4th line for the last few games before the Matthews injury more due to the fact the Babs was trying out the Matthews line as our match-up line.
The Kadri line (esp. Leo) have not had much success of late, so Babs was trying out Matthews.

Brown makes more sense to keep with Matthews for that experiment.

We have 10 top 9 fwds, one of them is going to play 4th line.

Does it really matter how he got promoted?

I consider it a non-issue at this point, until he finds himself down there again.

 

[Barilko14]

But babs even jokes about when Brown is on there - that he's being screwed basically. And finds ways to give him more ice-time and such.
I just think enough is enough. Put him back in play and if he dogs it, then go the tough love route

Nylander had a couple of 17 min nights when he played well before Matthews went down, he was getting rewarded when he played well.

 

[Barilko14]

Would anyone do Leivo for Dano? Both players are in similar situations, but Dano is a center.

He's taken 58 faceoffs in his career and is 40%. Hyman, Brown, Leo are Cs as much as he is.

Which C spot do you have him taking?

He's not a great faceoff man, and doesn't PK, so he's obviously not replacing Moore.

 

[Duke16]

He's taken 58 faceoffs in his career and is 40%. Hyman, Brown, Leo are Cs as much as he is.

Which C spot do you have him taking?

He's not a great faceoff man, and doesn't PK, so he's obviously not replacing Moore.

Poor research on my part. Listed as a C on his Hockey DB Profile and I assumed it was the reason he wasn't getting into the lineup since I though he was a better player than some of their 3rd/4th line wingers.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Pass on Dano. I do not see the NHL upside in him. Unlike the Leafs, there are opportunities for Dano to actually get into the bottom 6 for the Jets.

Jets butchered his development by keeping him from their AHL team. They should have realized that he was not going to get a good enough role earlier on and gave him more seasoning. Now they are stuck with a 13th forward type who really isn't good enough to be more right now.

Good for Columbus for using him as a major trade chip early on. I do hope a team like Arizona gives him a shot, because he could do well with more consistent ice time, but the Leafs have better on the Marlies right now IMO. Even Rychel is arguably better. I think he could have put up Dano's numbers in the NHL while also providing a physical element.

 

[Kiwi]

IMO Nylander stayed on the 4th line for the last few games before the Matthews injury more due to the fact the Babs was trying out the Matthews line as our match-up line.
The Kadri line (esp. Leo) have not had much success of late, so Babs was trying out Matthews.

Brown makes more sense to keep with Matthews for that experiment.

We have 10 top 9 fwds, one of them is going to play 4th line.

Does it really matter how he got promoted?

I consider it a non-issue at this point, until he finds himself down there again.

That Matthew's line is worse in almost every statistical category with Brown instead of Nylander, usage may play a part but it's a big drop off and is very noticeable

I like Brown as a player and he's a useful middle six complementary forward but hes certainly not the possession driver or offensive player Nylander is

There's a huge difference between moving up the line-up because the coach has to move you up because hes got no other option or giving a player more minutes and opportunities because the coach is happy with him and his game

 

[Barilko14]

That Matthew's line is worse in almost every statistical category with Brown instead of Nylander, usage may play a part but it's a big drop off and is very noticeable

I like Brown as a player and he's a useful middle six complementary forward but hes certainly not the possession driver or offensive player Nylander is

There's a huge difference between moving up the line-up because the coach has to move you up because hes got no other option or giving a player more minutes and opportunities because the coach is happy with him and his game

We all know that the Matthews - Brown combo is less effective, but if that trio I'd going to be tested as the matchup line, the odds of Nylander bumping out Brown are pretty slim.

I know there is a big difference between an actual promotion vs an injury related one, but either way he's in the top 9 now.
If Matthews is out for 2 weeks, then Brown or another fwd gets hurt, and Nylander has a dozen games away from the 4th line are we still going to complaining about his usage for those 10 games?

We all would like Leivo in the lineup more often, we aren't going to keep complaining while he's in the lineup, even if it is for injury related reasons.

 

[Kiwi]

We all know that the Matthews - Brown combo is less effective, but if that trio I'd going to be tested as the matchup line, the odds of Nylander bumping out Brown are pretty slim.

I know there is a big difference between an actual promotion vs an injury related one, but either way he's in the top 9 now.
If Matthews is out for 2 weeks, then Brown or another fwd gets hurt, and Nylander has a dozen games away from the 4th line are we still going to complaining about his usage for those 10 games?

We all would like Leivo in the lineup more often, we aren't going to keep complaining while he's in the lineup, even if it is for injury related reasons.

We could probably argue the Matthew's line getting more of a "matchup" role and if it effects our ability to score and how it helps or hinders the team as currently constituted but Babcock wasn't happy with Nylander and he put him on the 4th line for a reason, he also kept him there until he had his hand forced because of injury, Nylander is doing something that isn't going down well with the coaching staff

I also don't mind Leivo getting an opportunity, although he's playing on the 4th line so it's not an ideal way to gauge just how good he could be

 

[Barilko14]

Yes, he was demoted.

The main point I'm trying to make is that the Babs/Nylander relationship is not beyond repair, as some seem to be suggesting.

IMO, we are a long long way away from the being a legit topic of conversation.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Tonight when you watch the game, instead of watching Gardiner with the puck, watch his surroundings. The "easy" play you refer to is normally the D to D pass. With a defenseman like Rielly beside him it's a great option. When it's Z? Not so much.

He's forced to either skate it out himself (which very few D can do, don't kid yourself), or make a stretch pass because the forwards have been vacating the zone as fast as when Randy was coaching. It's no shock Gardiner is back up to his "old tricks" when he needs to rely on other players to be in position.

So far Gardiner looking good, Zaitsev looking wretched with the puck....

 

[Morgs]

So far Gardiner looking good, Zaitsev looking wretched with the puck....

Yup. For a guy as good offensively as Zaitsev is, it's strange he's so bad with the puck.

 

[Walshy7]

IMO Nylander stayed on the 4th line for the last few games before the Matthews injury more due to the fact the Babs was trying out the Matthews line as our match-up line.
The Kadri line (esp. Leo) have not had much success of late, so Babs was trying out Matthews.

Brown makes more sense to keep with Matthews for that experiment.

We have 10 top 9 fwds, one of them is going to play 4th line.

Does it really matter how he got promoted?

I consider it a non-issue at this point, until he finds himself down there again.

This “10 top 9 forwards” is a pretty big fallacy, it includes Hyman and komarov who are barely top9 forwards if at all. In reality we only have 8 top 9 forwards. Unless Kapanen or leivo play ahead of martin, Moore, Hyman or komarov we won’t have 9 top9 forwards

 

[Morgs]

So far Gardiner looking good, Zaitsev looking wretched with the puck....

Gardiner had a mostly great game yesterday, and still managed a 37.5 CF%.

Zaitsev is ruining him.

 

[thewave]

Gardiner had a mostly great game yesterday, and still managed a 37.5 CF%.

Zaitsev is ruining him.

Zaitsev confuses me half the time, is he dragging Jake down that much or what the heck is going on with that pairing? Did we overpay? I think Jake has looked plenty bad on his own though as well, maybe its just the net effect.

---------------

After last night, said in the game thread. I really think the prudent move is to move on from JVR even though I like him and he has been playing the right way. He could help us yes, but with the team as wishy washy as it is (record noted and accounted) I think it's best we take the futures and maybe see if we can make a deal for him as a UFA.